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another crank and no start car

42 posts in this topic

hi group,  i'm looking for you help with this car.

i am working on another club members 05 cabrio.

the owner said that the car started out with a "hard to start then no start,  then followed eventually by a no crank at all".

(during the hard to start,  it started better when it was cold)

 

- I checked the SAM for fuel pump output and starter output,  SAM is fine so i am ruling it out as the problem

- dropped engine and replaced the fried starter   (no crank issue is now fixed)

- cracked the line on the fuel rail,  lots of fuel, so i am ruling out the fuel pump

- replace the crank position sensor,  not the problem

- swapped out the fuel rail pressure sensor, not the problem

- tried WD-40 in the intake with no success

- put my had over the intake on crank,  seems to have lots of suction.    also pressure coming out of the tailpipe

- also tried a new heavy duty commercial battery

 

this car only has 99,000k on it,  and its a one owner car.

there is obviously something really simple causing the no start issue

does anyone have any sugestions ???      (also i don't have a STAR)

thanks

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Have you looked into the silver box near battery for corrosion, also ECU on airbox for same and dirty pins. BEWARE...ECU holds a charge and will self detonate if you short pins!!!!  It does get water issues. Grounding pins and wiring? KISS is probably the cause as you are saying. High pressure fuel pump? Just curious, what shape is the intercooler in? And it's hoses?   Curious, how fast does it spin over? Slow or normal or too fast...?  Helps determine compression maybe? OR condition of starter which is now new?

Edited by Willys

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i will check the silver box and the ecu.

grounding pins and wiring look good so far   (no green corrosion anywhere)

intercooler is worn thru at the usual location,  and hose from EGR valve to intake is also worn thru at the usual heater hose location.   but right now i am trying to get it started without the intercooler and hoses on the engine.

it turns over fine.   about the same as my 05,   seems to have compression.   if i put my hand over the intake during crank,  it has pretty good suction.

i have thought about checking the compression thru the glow plugs,  but the plugs are original from 05 and its a cold engine,  so i don't really want to go down that road yet.  lol

also forgot to mention,  no stored codes.   

Edited by Sydney

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I have never tried to run the engine without the inter cooler system..? Will it?    Hmmm....seems I hit the wrong key......damn! I fixed...lol....did you take the grounds apart to check each eye loop?   I expect you have.

Maybe yank an injector to see what they look like?

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12 minutes ago, Willys said:

I have never tried to run the engine without the inter cooler system..? Will it?    Hmmm....seems I hit the wrong key......damn! I fixed...lol....did you take the grounds apart to check each eye loop?   I expect you have.

Maybe yank an injector to see what they look like?

yes it will run without the intercooler.   (at least for testing purposes).   

i think pulling an injector will be my next step.   

i still think its a fuel issue,  the injectors will tell the story.

 

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I am starting to question the crank position sensor. I swapped it out with the sensor from my non running parts car, but I wonder if it is also bad. Evolution says it should be around 653 ohms.    Here is mine.

IMG_20201019_201125.jpg

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I bet it's toast if you aren't getting the same readings as Evilutions readings as long as you are set up in the same fashion....imho

 

OR.....are they dealing with a gas or diesel if that makes any difference at all...I don't know?...sorry.

 

 

 

Edited by Willys

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I saw a youtube clip where someone was having starting issues and they got the glow plug control unit tested and it had two of it's internal fuses blown, and the shop never checked it and after charging them for something else told them it was fixed and sent them on their way only to find it went into limp mode again  only to find the issue after cutting the glow plug module open and saw the problem, clear as a bell.   Not saying your issue is this but....always double check all electrical problem  and research etc.  As soon as they bought a brand new unit it problem solved.

 

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bad crank sensor will (most likely) never set a code

 

the only way ive diagnosed them (on other cars) is checking for rpm signals with a scantool while cranking

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ruling out the crank sensor.  i was able to test a 3rd sensor i had and it reads the same.  also the rpm guage does register during crank.   about 500rpm

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i did a lot more reading of some previous posts.

i am going to look at the high pressure pump,  and the fuel regulator.      (just not sure where the regulator is)   mabey someone can point me it the correct location.

Tolsen had said to unplug the solenoid on the high pressure pump and try starting the car,  so i will try that.

thanks.

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Ok, I tried unplugging the third pumping element on the high pressure pump. Hoping it would start. Still nothing. I found the fuel rail pressure regulator. I'm going to swap that and see what happens.    Great to have a bunch of spare parts.   Lol

 

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So have you tested the injectors you mentioned earlier? Also check the plastic wire Loom housing for the injectors for damage. I came across this in one of mine.

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24 minutes ago, Wild! said:

So have you tested the injectors you mentioned earlier? Also check the plastic wire Loom housing for the injectors for damage. I came across this in one of mine.

i am going to pull the injectors tonight and see if they are wet.   i do have a spare set of injectors,  i just don't have any washers.

i just don't think the injectors are triggering.   i should be able to smell fuel,  but there is nothing.

i will check the loom also.

it is something so simple causing this.   i just can't nail it down.

Edited by Sydney

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Well shit... I think I have it figured out. What I assumed was compression in 3 cylinders,   looks like it might be just compression in the cylinder closest to the oil fill cap.

I pulled the 3 injectors (2 were full of carbon), greased them then tried Glenn's method of using the compression to push the injectors back out. Only one moved, nothing on the other 2 (not even a wiggle).

Valve cover coming off tomorrow. I should be able to tell by the cam lobes if I have some valves stuck open.

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Have you got a bore scope?  You can pick them up on sale every now and then for close to $100 from Canadian Tire or Princess Auto........you want the 9mm sized camera no larger to be able to get it into the plug holes.  You'll be amazed at how well you can see damage etc by using one.  I'll bet that engine either got thrashed or never driven long enough to get a complete heat cycle before shutting it down again. Too many short trips.  I'll bet the sleeves are either warped or wavey from thermal shock. Or scored from lack of oil changes or just beaten to death.  IMHO this little engine doesn't like being beaten all the time, but to each their own.  Sure is a shame to see one with such low kms die so soon. My good car's engine ran perfectly but had badly warped sleeves. That was the reason it was rebuilt to the level it was.  I also bought a compression tester off Amazon early on and funny enough haven't used it much at all. It wasn't expensive so no loss in that respect but it would let you know instantly if you were getting anything near what it should be and would instantly tell you if it's worth working on further.

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You could push air into each cylinder and see where it's leaking from, telling you what is worn by where the engine is regards to timing etc. Intake, exhaust or valve cover...?

 

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I don't have a camera, but I am going to grab a compression tester. (the rubber tipped oness that you just press into to the injector hole)

I'm going to pull the valve cover tomorrow, a freind of mine told me a trick to use, is smear engine assembly lube on all the cam lobes, then crank the engine by hand, after a few revolutions, I should be able to see plain as day which valves are stuck open. The lobes the lube is not disrupted, are the valves that are stuck open.   Makes sense, I guess.

I do have a complete long block with about the same mileage on it. Might be another option also.

This car needs to be saved.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

19 minutes ago, Willys said:

You could push air into each cylinder and see where it's leaking from, telling you what is worn by where the engine is regards to timing etc. Intake, exhaust or valve cover...?

 

 

its risky 

 

id be spraying those glow plugs for days before trying to remove them 

 

mine were broken which is why i got the coupe so cheap..one was even drilled off center with an easy broke off in the hole ...lots of fun

 

i suppose if someone had a known bad injector you could probably make something to do thru the injector hole instead

 

 

edit :or use one of those rubber tipped push type compression testers in the injector hole lmao

Edited by LooseLugNuts
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Posted (edited) · Report post

If you took an injector out and made an air fitting from it, use a bad injector that is.  Gut one and use the fuel inlet to supply air into..?  Maybe...? Leave the glow plugs alone for now..?

I would do the same for making a compression tester over trying to get down in to the injector hole and hold one of those rubber units, I have one, it didn't work well as mine has a bend in it for typical gasoline engine configurations.

 

 

Edited by Willys

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35 minutes ago, Willys said:

If you took an injector out and made an air fitting from it, use a bad injector that is.  Gut one and use the fuel inlet to supply air into..?  Maybe...? Leave the glow plugs alone for now..?

I would do the same for making a compression tester over trying to get down in to the injector hole and hold one of those rubber units, I have one, it didn't work well as mine has a bend in it for typical gasoline engine configurations.

 

 

i ordered a compression gauge set this morning from amazon.  its the rubber push type  (even if i have to modify it a bit).

i was also reading an older post from Glenn , where he was able to free up some stuck valves.

 

 

 

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You'll find CDI's have far too much compression to be able to reliably hold it sealed without mechanical force, unlike a gasoline engine's compression.    See if you can thread a hose onto the tester then join that to the inlet fitting on an old injector after gutting the injector so it has zero flow restrictions internally.  Just a thought...?

Stainless steel line would work I expect....?

 

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if it comes down to an engine swap.  i do have a complete long block in great shape.   

it might be quicker to pull the engine   (50% of the work is done already)

fit the good block the start transferring everything over from the bad engine  (sensors, trans, etc)

(i assume if its just the block i am changing,  the car's ECU and SAM would not even know the difference)

 

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