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Sydney

another crank and no start car

42 posts in this topic

 able to free up some stuck valves.

 

this also depends upon why they stuck in the first place imho. simply dirty oil or lube I would say yes with care. Even if stuck from heat you may be able to get them free after plenty of penetrating fluids and gentle force, but what will the shafts look like and their guides? That is the question...?  You are in this deep why not take head off and simply take all valves out then lap them in , old school way. And deal with why they are stuck. It may only cost you a head gasket if i remember correctly, but may also cost you large for a rebuild if you get deep into it.  Opening up an engine just to peek is a very slippery slope I always slip way too far...lol

I personally hate things that are just botched back to working condition as I always fear they will let me down far from home. Only to cost me more sooner or later with more repairs...so why not fix it right now...is my thinking.

 

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i assume if its just the block i am changing,  the car's ECU and SAM would not even know the difference

 

that would be my way of going after it if I had a good running long block to slip into it. Then at you curiousity start playing with this engine just to learn more.

 

No the electronics won't know....what they are looking at as long as you keep all the sensors working etc and do not change either of the three computers.  You need a STAR to mate a different computer into the family or nothing works.  It can be done easily if you have a STAR because I have done it, so it can't be that difficult...lol.

 

 

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i just talked via email to the cars owner

the cars was really hard to start when cold (but once it caught, it ran perfectly,  the warmer the engine,  the easier to start.

(right now its in a headed garage,  so its warm)

and the car was running just a month ago.

here are the injectors.   left to right ,  right being closest to the oil fill cap

 

IMG_20201021_202236.jpg

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I'd say buy a sonic cleaner and new nozzles....as long as there is some compression. As the owner says it runs fine, so I would say it's these little buggers!

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45 minutes ago, Willys said:

I'd say buy a sonic cleaner and new nozzles....as long as there is some compression. As the owner says it runs fine, so I would say it's these little buggers!

i'm going to pull the injectors out of one of my running cars and swap them.  see if it will start then.

but i still know there is very little or no compression in # 2&3.

 

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Swapping in a working set is a good idea, at least you know they work and then you'll know if it's them or something completely different. As said, blast some WD-40 or carb cleaner through the injectors and see if anything comes out. You'll need to make up a step down hose to go from spray straw off carb cleaner can or WD-40 can up to the inlet port. I used hoses and shrink tubing and plenty of electrical tape just for making it a bit stiffer.  There really isn't much pressure going through so it isn't critical so to speak, you just need flow to see the spray pattern. I'll bet they pattern is all over the place if not plugged up.

 

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Well that didn't work.

I took 3 injectors out of one of my cars that was running fine just this afternoon.   And nothing...

It wants to start, but just won't. So I started thinking mabey the high pressure pump is toast,  so changed that also. And nothing again.

So grab the phone and called uncle Glenn.

After a good chat, i'm back to little to no compression in #2 & 3 cylinders.   Mabey valves but now leaning toward possibly rings.

I'm going to try a shot of either tomorrow and see if I can get it to catch.   If it will catch are run, it might heat up enough to stay running.

 

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As I have said before, my good car ran perfectly in all accounts. BUT after removing the head I saw how badly warped my cylinders were. You could easily see light past the rings after shining a light up from below. It took 3X pistons and rings to get all of the damage out of the bores. I was told and I agree it was caused by an owner using it primarily for short distance driving and not ever allowing it to warm up fully. It is what it is....some people do not need to drive half an hour to where they need to go and on a highway  etc etc, they simply need to get 5-10 miles to their destination. No engine likes these drive patterns. Premature death.   Again my car started and ran perfectly fine, the only reason I went in was to check oil sprocket and chain condition then thought, Hmmm....valves..?  Lucky I did or I would have spend good money after bad without fixing the real problem inside that engine. Now it's brand new so to speak. 
There is a bore scope ob sale at Can Tire this week here but it's the HD version and pricey but it would show you the bore walls etc and the differing shades to indicate a possible problem. Also it may even depending upon camera lense possibly see valve seating, maybe, if you twisted it in the right way while inside the bore.  Like I said they are a great addition if you keep doing this type of work.  You can get them half the price of this one at different times of the year. I'm sure I pain around $100 or so for mine.

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Oh, was the injectors wet? They should have been if they were sending fuel into the cylinders....just thinking out loud again...?

 

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6 minutes ago, Willys said:

Oh, was the injectors wet? They should have been if they were sending fuel into the cylinders....just thinking out loud again...?

 

i'll check tonight

i'm going to pull the injectors back out again tonight (and put them back in my car).  

also i'm going to order a rubber push compression guage and mabey a bore scope.

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Ok,   final answer. Pulled the injectors back out.  

They are wet, slid them back in again, removed the valve cover, my so rolled the engine by hand while I kept a close eye on the injectors and position of the cam lobes. (Willys you are correct about the pressure). 

#1 cylinder has plenty of compression, easily pushing the injector out

#2 & 3 cylinders are dead

So it's either bad rings, burnt valves, hung & bent valves or cylinders are out of round.

 

I am not a machine shop or engine rebuilder, so I have to break the news to the owner, that he really has only 3 options. Give up on the car, take the engine out and have a shop rebuild it or mabey I can swap in the long block that I have.

Edited by Sydney

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It's a shame to hear but I expected it.....there is usually only a few ways an engine plays up like that one did.  Can you ask the owner how he drove it, or did he just get it recently?  I'm curious if he did short trips or drove it long enough to get the engine well warmed up most of his drives.  IF the car is nice enough besides the engine and you can install a long block within his price range, I'd push for that, just to keep it on the road.  Maybe you'll end up with it cheap and you can flip it after the long block swap? I personally do not like the convertable versions but that is just me.....many folks love to drop the top when they can.
I wouldn't pay much for it imho if you can get it cheap unless it's a perfect car other wise.

You have many hours invested already. Shame...but better to learn on someone else's vehicle and pocket book...lol  Good luck.  IF you do get it, may be a good project to dismantle it to show what caused the issues as a teaching type project...?

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Here is some info on the car. Original owner since new in 05, car has 99,000k on it. Car is in amazing shape. Never abused or red lined and has made many long highway trips. Oils changes at regular intervals and recent fuel filter.  

 

I talked to the owner,  I am going to prep my long block for a swap (as long as it's in good shape.

My long block came from a car I bought a couple of years ago (car had no key or paperwork). So it ended up being my experimental test car.

My block is mounted on an engine stand and basically stripped down already. So it won't be hard to give it a good cleaning and inspection.

 

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Did you ever see and hear that long block run?....Sorry to rain on the parade?  I would also dismantle the old engine quickly just to search for a possible cause unrelated to what we all expect the cause is.  Sorry always looking for the dark side just so I cover all bases and my ass at the same time.
Sorry but I would drop the oil pan and check oil chain and sprockets on your long block also.

Edited by Willys

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yeah...at least drop the pan to check the oil sprocket

 

maybe even put a pan with a drain

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1 hour ago, LooseLugNuts said:

yeah...at least drop the pan to check the oil sprocket

 

maybe even put a pan with a drain

Yes for sure. I'm going to replace the pan.  this car was taken off the road due to a clutch fork punch thru. The key was then lost for the car, and I ended up buying it. 

 

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