gear clutch When in 5 gear, the gear slips to N and two keys apear

[denisalb 0]

I have a smart for two, 2008 diesel, automatic trasmition, 800cc 146k km around 105k miles. The gears shif smoothly and car working fine, when in high way in 5 gear about 85 miles, i breake to take an exit the gear shift to N adn twe keys apear. I turn of the key whait for lights off and it atart fine some times may be two time i have to turn off. In the city it runs fine, only when you are in 5 gear and with high motor performance it does that and not every time. It is a funny problem and i really can not thing of any solution, i do not know if smth like this happened to anyone. Pls share if you had similar problem or might have and idea what might be the problem. Thank you. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by denisalb

[Willys 747]

Welcome to the site.

First I'd check your clutch actuator for correct pressure and movement, and cleanliness. Then I may suggest if the first attempt doesn't fix it, get your transmission taught back in. It will require a STAR machine or a trip to the nearest dealership.

That would be my guess.......also I think the two wrenches means you are way past over on your service schedule...?  That also can be turned off using the STAR system or reset    whichever you wish.

 

[denisalb 0]

Thank you for the quick reply. 

The two keys i do not have them all the time, i understand what they are for, but they come only when this problem happens. Anyway i thought there is a info that might click into smth. 

"clutch actuator for correct pressure and movement" i do not have any clear idea what amd where is this part, but i google it but could not find any info how to check the pressure. If you have any link please send. Thanks a lot for the support. The local mechanic told me to change the clutch, but i was not sure.  

 

[Willys 747]

The clutch actuator is the mechanical/electric thing that pushes the clutch which we normally do with our left foot. It does it all by computor. Research it here on this site, there are many threads explaining exactly what it is and how it works and all the issues people have with it. Basically make sure it's clean, easily moveable , not siezed and travels far enough into thehousing to push the clutch. It has to have at least a solid firm contact pressure against the clutch fork it rides against inside the housing. Look inside and you'll see what it hits, that's the clutch fork, it must have a firm amount of pressure against it. You can if careful undo the adjustment bolts for the actuator , don't snap them if rusted badly. Then loosen it off, remove it and spray WD-40 into it to help clean it out then shake clear then add some sort of spray grease, preferably water resistant . Also make sure the rubber boot isn't ruined and allowing water to simply pour in. If it is simply clean well with degreaser and apply some silicon to it for now  until you can buy a new one. Now firmly press the unit upto the clutch fork and tighten the bolts back up...done. IF it still happens find someone with a STAR system or go to the dealership and ask them to re-teach your transmission and actuator.....it may not be cheap at the dealership so search for someone who has made their own STAR system who will do it for far less. It's easy if you own a STAR system.   I do not think there is any other scanner system that does this. I could be wrong.?  I doubt it.

This site has a great knowledge so start searching for any and all issues here not on google. There may be a few YouTube  vids showing it, I don't know..? But there is almost a video of everything else known to man there.lol
Good luck and let us know how you make out.   Always good to hear how people solve their issues.

 

[LooseLugNuts 557]

are they wrenches?..or keys

 

sounds weird to see 2 keys 

 

a picture might help

Edited November 7, 2020 by LooseLugNuts

[denisalb 0]

Yep 🔧 wrenches, sorry for confusion, i just did not know the right word.  

[LooseLugNuts 557]

ignore the wrenches...its just a mileage based thing programmed into ecu to get owners in for an overpriced dealer service procedure

 

theres a way to reset them manually but i was never succesful with that procedure and usually resetted it with a delphi 150

 

i highly doubt the wrenches has anything to do with the gear problem

[LooseLugNuts 557]

when it pops out of gear do you get the 3 bars on the dash?

 

if you do its probablly a worn out clutch fork

 

if you dont it still might be a worn out clutch fork hole

 

and it could maybe be chaffed wires near the intercooler shroud (way back under the rear driver wheel area)...plenty of threads around here about chaffing and fork holes

Edited November 7, 2020 by LooseLugNuts

[denisalb 0]

After sever times i learne d how tonreset the oil change, but hwen the two 🔧 come they come just for the moment when they desepaear i can run thw car normally, amd i do not have them anymore jn deshbiard 

 

[Willys 747]

I'd check SAM, ECU and all connections for corrosion and broken wiring near the transmission gear selection motor as stated above. This must be an electrical issue to strictly pick 5th gear  why doesn't it happen in other gears as well? It has to be when the gear position selector motor has gotten to a particular signal and it fails.  It's either this or the transmission gear placement number is incorrect. This meaning when the car is searching for it it can't find it when it has to.  I'll be it's either a bad wire, corrosion or the transmission needs to be re-taught where each gear is exactly. and that I'm afraid is a dealership or a STAR system fix.

 

[denisalb 0]

19 hours ago, LooseLugNuts said:

when it pops out of gear do you get the 3 bars on the dash?

 

if you do its probablly a worn out clutch fork

 

if you dont it still might be a worn out clutch fork hole

 

and it could maybe be chaffed wires near the intercooler shroud (way back under the rear driver wheel area)...plenty of threads around here about chaffing and fork holes

I do not get the three bars, I have been driving the last two days  seems fine. I have realised that it does only when the fifth gear is in high motor rotation like 2500- 2900 rpm and the road ahead is a decent and i need to break to slow down. Only in one place near a exit on a high way it does this. BUt one thing is sure that it was doing it once in e month now it does more often  once in 3 days in the same spot. DUring a period of 6 months only two time it happened in other places.

[denisalb 0]

13 hours ago, Willys said:

I'd check SAM, ECU and all connections for corrosion and broken wiring near the transmission gear selection motor as stated above. This must be an electrical issue to strictly pick 5th gear  why doesn't it happen in other gears as well? It has to be when the gear position selector motor has gotten to a particular signal and it fails.  It's either this or the transmission gear placement number is incorrect. This meaning when the car is searching for it it can't find it when it has to.  I'll be it's either a bad wire, corrosion or the transmission needs to be re-taught where each gear is exactly. and that I'm afraid is a dealership or a STAR system fix.

 

I have one problem in the car sorry for my ignorance but i do not know the english name, It is the sensor in the tube close to air filter, the wires ar cut off, i could not repair it this time, the mechanics sow it, i doubt it has to with this. I know that this sensor puts more air or less according to the need of the car and impacts thrust speed fuel save. I got the check motor lamp two months ago and probably that was broken around that time. The mechanic tells me you need to change the clutch and the  clutch actuator (they refer to this as the robot) but they do not have star and they did not even diagnoses with any thing just listening t the sounds that makes clutch actuator ( very funny) I will try to explain to them what you guys are suggesting, Thank you every body for taking the time to write. Really appreciate it. They are asking 500 Euro to replace clutch actuator and clutch, including mand work. I do not know it the clutch is original. Is the original one Sachs?

[Willys 747]

OK, you need to take a picture of this part that is damaged not the clutch or actuator, but the one near the airbox.  This car is so sensitive to any electrical interferance that it may be the whole problem....sad to say.
Your mechanic can't diagnose anything without the correct scanners etc. IMHO. especially when he's speaking of the clutch or electrical controlled items such as the gear sellection motor. The gear selection motor count revolutions of it's shaft to figure out what gear the gear drum is at to choose a gear inside the transmission. Unless your mechanic has the STAR system to do this he is simply guessing at the problem.  How many miles or kms on this car again..????   Was it treated very badly  or is it in good condition, usually easily shown by the wear marks on certain items like pedals, shifter knobs etc etc etc....the clutch isn't a known bad item in this car from what most experienced owners say. I replaced mine when I tore my whole engine apart for a complete rebuild.....I'll say it didn't need replacing but I did anyway seeing as it was out. My throw out bearing or release bearing was shot or badly lacking of grease or lube, my clutch fork was still good also. IMHO, find another mechanic or go to a dealership and spend the money for the use of a STAR diagnosis. BUT first yake pictures of the damaged areas and items and post them here. Also figure out how to take a video of the actuator  and all issues  post them on YouTube or somewhere and link them to this site here in this thread. That way we can see and hear the same things you see and hear. That will make it far easier to help you.  IF your actuator is making funny noises it's either full of corrosion crap or has a damaged piece inside it.
So please get someone to take these pictures and videos for you if you can't figure it out,(I'm no good with that also so no disrespect)  And allow us to help better.

Good luck.....again do not trust someone who can't diagnose the car correctly simply because they do not have the means to do so.  You must have a STAR imho to re-teach the gear sellection motor to know where each gear is inside the transmission.....sorry.

 

[Willys 747]

I just re-read your first post, this car has moderate miles on it so imho the clutch should be good.....also you say this happens when you hit the brakes.....perhaps have you checked the brake light switch? See if it is in good working clean condition etc etc. That can be done without any special machines. 

[denisalb 0]

May be i will check that too. I will try other mechanics by monday. and let know 

[Willys 747]

Take pictures of the damaged parts and post them, as soon as you can....and the video if you can figure it out.

This STAR system isn't anything a regular mechanic will own UNLESS they work a lot on Merzedes Benz vehicles. It is MB's diagnostic tool to solve all their issues.   So find a mechanic which works mainly on MB's.  It's your best shot.

 

[denisalb 0]

WhatsApp Audio 2020-11-08 at 16.03.11.mp4

[Willys 747]

check your engine mounts to see if one is broken or weak..?  This may cause the engine to pinch a wire at the gear selector motor...? Re check all wiring going to or around the gear selector motor for breaks or damage that could be pulled if the engine moves on decelleration...?  Also are you in automatic mode or do you shift gears yourself? Then do you shift at the same engine RPMs every time or is this spot somewhere where you shift at a higher rate than normal? This also could cause the motor to shift along with the brake force...? Just guessing...hoping to find a reason.  Check around the air scoop for the inter cooler. As it's a location for the wiring to get rubbed through. Look to see if ....if the engine could move .....would this movement affect the connection to the gear selection motor? 

[denisalb 0]

Automatik, I have tried to shift down manually 2 times from 5 to 4, and it did it once  

[Willys 747]

When shifting down it demands being within a specific engine RPM range or the computer will over ride you.  I find the standard mode far smoother than the auto mode.....so I drive it as a standard shift.

 

[denisalb 0]

This morning i thing it died, it got stuck in 3 than it was normal N after and no gear would work, so i went to mechanics they change the accumulator and it seems fine now, i still have to try the 5 gear in high way. Thanks everybody for the tips and held. They considered that accumulator did not needed a clean so i changed it. 

[Willys 747]

Glad to hear it was a simple fix so to speak and NOT your entire clutch like the other guy told you.  Fingers crossed this is all you need. Keep us posted how you make out.