Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Newfie

Car will turn over but wont start

16 posts in this topic

Hi there,

I am new to this group and first off have to say thanks I've found a lot of very useful posts.

I am however completely stuck and stumped with my problem.

I recently purchased an 06 smart 4 two pulse diesel.

I was told the glow plugs were bad.

I brought it home and looked it over and my wife found a post that said you have to start car within 30 seconds of unlock so I tried it and she fired right up which was great and short lived.

She ran rough and would all of sudden have problems starting, turn over but no start.

I have replaced everything you could think of starter, alternator, glow plugs, battery and still nothing.

I was lucky enough to get 3 smarts as parts vehicles and 1 started up everytime not a problem so I swapped the engines between the two and find myself right where I started turn over but wont start.

So my question to you fine folks is what electrical components should I be looking at for this as I am at a loss.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome!

 

Do some searches on the forum on SAM problems and be prepared to make up a new circuit for the electric fuel lift pump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to the site, where in Ontario are you roughly?

 

Search out SAM issues and also the white small plug in the front of the battery well, it gets seriously corroded. Also check the silver box up above the battery are for corrosion. Take it apart to peek inside and clean it if corroded with soap and water and a tooth brush type brush....carefully. Read up on fuel pump in the tank relay mods. Check all negative grounding points, there are many all over the vehicle. Don't simply look at them as they outwardly look perfect but will possibly have corrosion between the eye connectors. Also check main negative grounding cable running from engine to body in the rear of engine compartment.  You could also check the ECU plugs for corrosion on 3 of the pins....BEWARE the ECU holds a charge and will unload it's capasitors and fry itself if you accidently short the pins! Ask me how I learned this lesson! .There are many other items to deal with when first acquiring a new to you Smart Car imho. Just to get it reliable or lets say so you have cleared all issues that normally pop up after being left to fester with poor maintenance so to speak.  After you have done the usual it'll more than likely be perfect.   My list is extensive I'm afraid so until you have tried the first few without success I'll refrain from over loading you...lol.

Again welcome and happy reading and researching the common issues and getting them cleared away.   These little cars make great winter vehicles loads of fun to drive.  Safe I might add.....!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to the club.  What part of the province are you?

As mentioned twice already put in a relay for the low pressure fuel pump first.  It is cheap and will likely cure your intermittent start issue.  Read this topic and you will understand the problem.  http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?/topic/25663-sam-woes-and-how-to-cure-them/#comment-299934 Condider doing relays for the low beams at the same time especially if there is evidence of heat on the pins.

 

Nigel 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

check the easiest thing first.  FUEL. listen for the low pressure pump in the tank  (should run for about 3 sec when ignition is turned on.  if you cant hear it loosen the 14mm fuel line from the high pressure pump to the rail and turn the key on, fuel should pour out of the line if the low pressure pump is working.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you all. Im Southwestern Ontario not far from Hamilton.

I've checked all the lines there is fuel going to all the injectors. I can hear the pump when I turn the key on. Replaced 2 fuel filters. I can spray quick start in it and she will fire right up but will not go on her own fuel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I replace the sam does it have to be programmed to the new vehicle? I've never worked an a sam before and am honestly a little scared to touch it as I don't want to mess it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have fuel lift pump action the SAM is unlikely to be the reason for the no-start.  SAM is coded to VIN,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Verify if you have Diesel in tank, and not gasoline, is check engine light on? Check for fault codes? Unlock on key fob then try start

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its definitely diesel in the tank, no check engine lights. It will start with quick start then shut right off. Is there a diagram of where the grounds are on this site by chance? I've looked but can't seem to find anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Newfie said:

Its definitely diesel in the tank, no check engine lights. It will start with quick start then shut right off. Is there a diagram of where the grounds are on this site by chance? I've looked but can't seem to find anything.

There are a few that I could tell you about if I remember them all...lol.    
Start at the main neg cable at the rear running from engine to body, it tends to evaporate over time. Then almost directly forward of that there is a grounding pin(GP) under the lip of the floor of the car just behind the driver's seat where the engine cover seals. There is a GP under the drivers seat that sometimes is bad, harder to get to as you need to undo the plastic skid pan at the rear. Now go to battery location, one obviously next to it for main neg power wire from battery, then on centre hump in floor to the left of battery. Next check near the SAM on the left side inner body wall, if I remember correctly??? same with possibly right side? But I think the centre GP and main GP is what is used. Check the white connector in batter well, it goes green most of the time. Open silver box under righthand side of dash as it too goes white with water ingress issues. Relocate it higher up as wiring is able to be rerouted to allow it to be attached to cross member of dash. Open the SAM, just to peek, look for the usual row of 10 or so pins that either burn up from over heating or before that happens will get hairline cracks around actual pins which cause all sorts of issues.  Any time you mess with the electrical system undo neg from battery.   IF you go after the front area by removing the front clip, there are GP's there for the lights etc etc and they also have issues. This car suffers from bad corrosion of it's electrical connectors and GP's IMHO. It is the cause of 99% of all problems imho. 

To answer your question about a paper trail or manual sorry doesn't exist in English just German and that isn't that great either. I have one. The best visual site for our cars in general is Evilution.co.uk imho. You must donate the smallest sum to get to the best information but imho it's well worth the price of admission. It isn't a chat type site, it's mainly a technical site loaded with very useful info that gets shared around. This site is the best site for the CDI Smarts period imho as Canada seemed to be the only place who got a load of the CDI vehicles. So do some researching around at the few good sites and you'll soon learn all there is to know hopefully about these cars.  IF you can't find something, we'll be glad to help or mix you up even further...lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Should I post a new question or carry on with this thread?

 

I have a similar problem.  Turns over, won't start.  I can hear the fuel pump kicking in.

 

If I plug it in, regardless of -20 or in a heated garage, with a battery charger on maintain, it will fire right up. It runs a little rough for a couple seconds then runs normal for my 45 minute commute.  The longer it's plugged in, the less trouble I have.  I've added Seafoam to 2 tanks of diesel and put about 4-6 tanks through it.

 

I bought it as a spare, I have 4, and my son ran it all summer with no issues.  I switched to it when I hit a deer and wrote off my daily driver.  It slowly started taking longer to fire up.  Then it would take a couple attempts.  Now, there is no go without being plugged in.

 

No engine codes other than EGR which I removed but haven't finished wiring up the delete electronics.  The previous one I have stopped working on the last car.

 

Ive been searching for answers and it's finally in the garage where I can get to the engine.  I decided to log back in and browse through the forums when this one from a month ago was the top spot.

 

My plan is to start checking for corrosion on connections because a fully charged battery also seems important for success.  The battery is not bad and it turns over much faster than my others when they'd start fine.  It's a 2006 with 111,000kms.

 

EDIT to add:  I remembered when it got bad.  I started it, pulled out of the garage, started down my street.  I tried to accellerate out of a yield sign and it lost power and stalled.  It started back up but would not climb over 1200-1500 rpm without stalling.  If I put it in gear, the clutch would start to engage but If I pressed harder on the accelerator to get it to fully engage, it would again bog down and die.  After several attempts (10+), I was able to get it limped back onto the driveway.  It would idle but not rev up.  After I'm guessing 30 seconds to a minute of pressing and releasing the accelerator, RPMS started to increase with plumes of white smoke rolling across the street.  It then all settled down, I put it in gear and drove it for 45 minutes down the highway.  When it was time to leave, it took a couple attempts to get it to start, typically cycling the glow plugs 3 times before turning it over.  It has steadily gottem worse to the point I'm at now with having to plug in the block heater and battery charger to get a reliable start.

 

It will easily do 110kms on the highway once it is running.

 

Edited by rdhawk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No offense but it's up[ to the original poster to say start your own thread as your issue may drift away from his own and his problem may not get sorted out. Just a curtesy so to speak. 
I'll start with grounding pins everywhere, then suggest opening up SAM and E-box(silver box under dash righthand side) to peek in for corrosion, then search out the white plug in the battery well for same, green corrosion, a well known issue.  Next you say you have deleted the EGR...? Have you installed an emulator to tell electronics it's still operational? Have you tried to work the wastegate with an adjustable to make sure it's not semi seized?  Then we get to fuel delivery, your pump you hear is working, next is the fuel filter clear and clean? No blockages? Next is high pressure pump, good? Next is injectors and their nozzles, spray pattern if not blocked?  I know these are not an hour's worth of time, many more I'm sure to get through, but they are a starting point imho.  Sorry. 

Hope this helps....there's many more options to test etc etc....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was wondering proper etiquette.  Some forums get mad when you ask the same question that's already beeen asked.  Mine is the same issue and unresolved.  Can't find any corrosion at the SAM or E-box, tried another E-box.  I assume I can't just switch out the SAMs.  Grounds I can find are good.  Fuel at the injectors.  I haven't pulled them, they still could be bad.  Wastegate is not seized.

 

The problem started before I removed the EGR thinking that was part of the issue.  I have not completed the electronics but that is also on today's agenda.

 

Two hours on the block heater and it starts.

 

I'll keep working through all the suggestions I've found and post my own question this evening if it's unresolved.

 

Worst case, it stays plugged in with a maintainer until spring when I strip it for body parts and get a different one back on the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IF you swap out either the SAM, ECU or the Speedo you will require a STAR to teach either of them to speak to the rest of the car.  But it can be done.

Pre heating the block suggests bad rings maybe....as they would expand a bit if heated increasing compression...?   Just for shits and giggles, maybe try dropping a squirt of oil down cylinders before heating to see if the oil does the same thing. Helping seal rings to get better compression and it starts easier..?  Yes a pain to get the oil in but it may prove something?  OR does heat help swell engine parts to get again better head gasket seal..?  

 

OK, have you taken SAM down and opened it up?  It's easy once you have done it once or twice.  If you research SAM issues you'll find the info on the bad solder joints inside on a specific row of pins.  There'll be invisible cracks around some pins ruining the connection. Also possible burnt pins from arching to get connection. Same will be on the connector plug.   N11-3 is the connector plug if I remember right, but could have it wrong....a long brown plug with 10 wires.   The E-Box will also be green inside it not outside so to speak and a bit of soap and water and a tooth brush will maybe fix that. The white plug in the batter well is a well known issue.   As for the grounding pins, you need to take each pin apart to find the corrosion between each eyelet as it may not be visible to the naked eye so to speak.

Just because there is fuel at the injector doesn't mean it is spraying the correct spray pattern to get the best ignition from the injectors.  Also is there plenty of pressure from high pressure fuel pump?   

 

Sorry to go on about all the little things but I have found they are the cause for many issues.   I also just got a SAM from a wreck and found that some of the wires were nibbled by rats.....yes there was turds left to indicate their presence lol....I didn't see the damage until I put the plugs back into the SAM just to keep them safe and not loose any. 

 

Hope this helps.....keep us informed...always good to hear what exactly solved an issue so we learn for the next time.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

I took the SAM down.  Brown plug looked fine.  Decided against complete disassembly as this is my only commuter until I have time to repair/insure another.

 

I suspect a ground as the lights will dim about once a week for a brief moment.  I did disassemble and clean the ones in the engine bay, battery box, and fire wall.  I didn't want to pull the front or belly pans with my limitted time on Sunday.

 

Because this is my busy season I don't get much time to work on it.  If I solve it I will update but I'm guesing it will be months before I can get serious.  My most likely solution is to pull the body panels from this one and put them on my write off.  Or just buy another.  They're so cheap now they're practically disposable.

 

Thank you for all you suggestions.  It confirms I haven't missed anything in my research and have some serious work to do.

Edited by rdhawk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

    Chatbox
    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More