CRasman

no start
Rescued an old Smart 451 CDI. Like some help

20 posts in this topic

Posted (edited) · Report post

Greeting. I trust all who see this are safe. An introduction. Name is Chris R. Live in south Florida USA. Not from here originally. I am retired and good with cars and wires. The Smart was something different. I found it in a wreckers yard in 2018. Car was in super good shape for a 2006 fortwo CDI. Story I got was it belonged to an old man. The old man went shopping at a local market and died from a heart attack. No family. The car sat a few weeks and the city had the on contract towing company drag it off the lot, no keys. I saw in the wreckers yard, and  asked about it,  paid 1200$ US  for the car, a new key (I had no idea what that take), title, running and dropped off at my door. I got the car dropped buy a roll back at my home 2 months later with a title and a new console they got from a different wrecker with a key. They had no idea how the SAM worked either. So one thing lead to another. I sent the SAM, ECU, cluster a spare SAM and ECU to SOS Diagnostics, Oregon USA.  They first spare SAM I got off of eBay was bad. So I had to buy another one (this is all their requirements  to do the work). A month later I had the programed SAM and ECU back for close to 1100$  US. I took a month to get to it. Last week I put in the ECU, and SAM. A few things. Someone stole the radio while it was in the wrecker's lot, I had a locksmith with a STAR computer. he could not teach in the key. That's when I called SOS. So I put in the SAM and ECU, the immobilizer released and the newly programmed key unlock the door and back window. I get lights, wipers, window washer. I turn the key, I hear what I think is a fuel pump and a click in the SAM. Nothing from the starter at all. The dash, I don't see the transmission indicator, I get a blinking key non stop. a wrench and some other things. I can run the shifter through the gears and hear the motor moving under the car.

I have been talking to Kane over at Evilution. He thinks SOS didn't program the ECU right. SOS asked me to use my universal  ODB2 reader and software to see if the ECU was there. I can't see the ECU. Kane looked at a video I took when I turned the key and he saw I had a gas gauge, he said that means the SAM is talking to the ECU. I have made sure the battery is 13 volts + DC. I put a meter on the blue wire that should energize the starter and get nothing out of it  when I am turning the key. I am wondering the if CAN ran through the radio and is broke due to cut wires? Any ideas how to further check the SAM ECU?? Can I put 12 volts on the blue wire when I am turning the key to see if the starter turns. I noticed tonight that I have 11.5 volts on the red power wire coming into the SAM. The battery is 13 + volts?? I know I am asking a hundred Please forgive me. I hope someone can give me a good idea what to do. If I can prove to SOS they did not program the ECU right they will replace it they told me. Please forgive me. This is the link to the video I took of the dash when I turned the key. I hoping some of you seasoned Smart owners can tell me what it all means and maybe give a good idea what to try.   Thanks much. 

 

https://www.icloud.com/attachment/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcvws.icloud-content.com%2FB%2FARXLuWH2UX5m275RCNHuj_DI8keEAZmrbxEI--WEM9Ni2D3_91lSx3GC%2F%24{f}%3Fo%3DAppMY9vKWtRVRhnTnmg4Kazq7WgkLwoJVKg8RsfYF3hi%26v%3D1%26x%3D3%26a%3DCAogvWQtBt-8P7e_mgME1PWSaT4ryujHhV5u_p8mxiJrTS4SeBCttvGF9S4Yrcbs2f4uIgEAKgkC6AMA_3L1-jBSBMjyR4RaBFLHcYJqJpfR0tzqeN4OAAbKDwlzBqjdXhV_beJZ1K5Azdju69Kugr5QjqjFciaTzPA87XK5CDt75DgQDUMlMDw7aBVXFyYfIR2-hxE_Bgz39RyamQ%26e%3D1614559257%26fl%3D%26r%3D6C17AACB-304E-47CA-AAB3-12B69668ED2A-1%26k%3D%24{uk}%26ckc%3Dcom.apple.largeattachment%26ckz%3DFB018733-47F0-48AB-8B5E-E700B7F661A1%26p%3D68%26s%3DEviE4IW-A_HJWIckbUBI7GCqjG4&uk=inVpVVsvYkGxjaBkVUm8yg&f=IMG_2756.MOV&sz=74147851   

Edited by CRasman

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Posted (edited) · Report post

First thing to try is press the unlock button on the remote and then try starting car.  The flashing key symbol is letting you know the immobilizer is on.  You need the cluster to show N where the key symbol is to start.  The two wrenches indicate you are due for the “B” service, do a search here for A and B services and how to reset the service indicator.  Also a 2006 smart is going to be a model 450 for when you are doing research here.

 

By the way welcome to the club. 
 

Nigel

Edited by Nigel

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Can you post the last 6 digits of the VIN?  One of our members has a lot of information on most 450's that came to North America.  Perhaps you could include the colour and whether it is a Pure, Pulse or Passion.  The can be found on the little triangular piece of plastic where the antenna is mounted. See the circled portion of the attached photo.

 

:welcome: to the club

 

Smart at 63 Rosevear 2.jpg

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Nigel, thanks, okay your right, 450. Got confused over on Evilution.  No go on the unlock (locks do unlock, get in in, foot on the break, key in and turn key. Still get the flashing key and dinging). I really think SOS did me wrong. Key flashes non stop. Interior light comes on and goes off proper too. Going to send them back to SOS unless a miracle happens this weekend. will look up B service and how to clear it. Thanks for the warm welcome. 

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As Nigel mentioned, the flashing key indicates that the immobilizer is on.  If your key has good batteries and is mated properly with the ignitions system, it should turn the flashing key off.

 

This needs to be done before the key is turned on.

 

The minus 40,200kms tells me that you are either overdue by 40,200kms for service or someone didn't know how to reset the service reminder.

To reset the service reminder,

1. Switch on ignition. (But do not start car!)

2. Select maintenance indicator (so it's in the display).

3.Within the first 4 seconds, switch off the ignition while holding the reset button down.(Maintenance should remain in the display).

4. Continue to hold the service button (button on the left of the cluster) while you switch the ignition on.

5. Continue to hold the service button depressed for another 10 seconds. After that the oil change interval display is reset. (you should see it go from whatever your countdown showed to the reset value of 8,000kms.)

6. After completing this task, the display shows the remaining distance (startup distance) for the next maintenance interval.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Pulse, 314864. It's that blue. Thanks. Been trying to figure it out on my own over at Evilution. kane is pretty good at answering his emails. But no forum. Was hoping for some crowd help. Thanks for looking at the vid both of you. I have two new keys supposedly mated right. Both do the same thing. They will unlock the car and back window.

 

Edited by CRasman

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For a quick description about the A & B services, the following will help a bit.

 

One wrench showing means you will be due for an oil & flter change at the end of the countdown.  Two wrenches showing means that you will be due for a more invasive inspection, which should include but not limited to battery check (condition and connection), oil & filter, brake inspection (taking the wheels off and measuring the wear on the pads and discs), lubricating door handles and other mechanisms, tire condition and inflation, insuring all lights are working and more at the end of the countdown.

 

The reset button is located on the left side of the instrument cluster cover.  (See photo, below)

Smart reset button.jpg

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Welcome to the site, you are in the right place for anything concerning the 2005-2006 CDI models IMHO. By far the best site on the planet as Canada seems to have gotten the majority of them it seems...Love them....

IMHO....make up your own STAR system and get solid advice about how to do this......it will save you thousands of $$$$ in the long run.  Plus you will be able to do most everything yourself.  There are some threads here outlining that process here I think. I have detailed my purchases before for others.   Sending your Speedo,SAM and ECU off along with keys and immoblizer system is rediculous...imho.  You need the star with the car to easily reset keys to the car. All 3 computers need to be in a working car I think also to get them to be synchronized to speak with each other.  I have done all these things but never away from the host vehicle.....so doing it remotely seems impossible....for me any way.  But I'm not a computer hacker either.  The service numbers came up from the newer speedo if that was replaced as it has a steam green bezel in it..?
For what you spent sending your items to SOS you could have made up a STAR....sorry.

 

I'll start by saying, check every grounding pin you can find on the vehicle between each eyelet connected to it for corrosion. Then check main grounding strap running from engine to bodywork on the rear of engine bay. Now go after small white plug in battery well if your car has one....Canadian cars do....so not sure about yours? It will help where the car originated from to know what it will have or who imported it to the USA. One company imported a bunch into the US I think from Canada and can't remember the company name but it was a 3 letter name I think?   Can you take some pictures of the car inside and out to show us what it has or what it may not have?  There is a registry of all cars know to us on this site, maybe it is already in there and that would be very helpful.  Also open up the SAM to check for the usual bad solder joints we find on almost every SAM with issues. Also take the ECU out and very carefully look at the pins for the plug connections....3 or 4 will go green.  You can also open up the ECU to peek inside to look for any water ingress signs....BEWARE there are capacitors which hold a charge and will fry it'self if shorted out, ask me how I learned this ...augh!   But a careful opening will be OK, just don't short in any way the pins. IF Your car came from Canada it may still have the transport Canada silver box near the battery area that again goes green internally causing major issues.  Do all these things after  disconnecting your battery of course...!!!!   The immobalizer  system is under the gear stick so to speak and can also go bad.....but I haven't had that joy yet. Touch wood. Reprograming keys in a car takes minutes once you have a STAR.  What they charge to do  keys alone up here would pay for a STAR in less than half a dozen keys.!!
As stated above, your main issue is to get the locked key symbol off your dash....then it's a slow meticulous job going through all the other issues with these cars. BUT, once it's running well, they are a smile a mile as they say.....mine averages 80MPGs...and I also live on the flat lands, near water, not mountains.

 

 

After re-reading your post a few times, it sounds like the speedo isn't programed to speak with the SAM or ECU......the locksmith with the STAR should be able to reteach these three to talk to each other. It takes me a long time to do it as I rarely use my STAR that deeply to remember how to do it, but IF I can do it, anyone can.  BUT....IF your car was imported by the company officially into the USA then maybe they re-programed the SAMs,ECU and speedo's differently than our Canadian versions...?  Requiring more than just a STAR to turn their versions on? I'm sure someone here will know this information. There is also a US bases Smart Car site but they don't do much CDI version vehicles. Or at least I didn't find another site anywhere as good as this one for CDI's.   Get in contact with Stickman007 here as he is a wealth of info and knows most all bout the electronics of our cars.  Wild is another electrical wizard.

Sorry for a long winded post....hope it helps....Again welcome.

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Looked up the serial number, car came from Quebec to Florida.

 

 

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All, thanks. I’m very grateful for the help. I am all for making a STAR. Had been looking on the net. I’ll look here later today (8:25 local). I am a retired system engineer. Something I can do. I noticed I have 13.5 at the battery and 11 into the SAM. I cranked down on the ground bolt by the battery. No help. Battery is in the floor by the passengers feet. Lots of Canadians down here. eBay, 2010, wow. Car is in good shape. Very little rust. Probably summer only in QC and not much rust down here. Just lots snd lots of rain in the summer. 

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I’m curious how the car was legally titled and registered there… the CDI wasn’t legal to import into the USA, if memory serves. 

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I’ll bet some license offices if you walk in with an ownership and a bill of sale and pay the state and local taxes you are good to go.  If it is a state that requires inspections probably not.  I know Glenn has mentioned shipping 450 parts to the USA in the past.

 

Nigel

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So a Canadian car, so you are in our backyard solving issues wise, far better than trying to guess what the importer did to it.   Get that STAR, you will not regret it!  Kiss all the leaches away....
Now you can start the corrosion searching, the white and greenies will be there somewhere I'll bet!

Salt water is a killer....wonder if has been sunk at any point...?  Pull the carpets and have a peek and snap some pics......we all like pics...lol

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I doubt it (dunked). It did live within 5 miles of the Gulf of Mexico for a long time. I’ve had the mats and rugs out a while. No rust. Under Is very clean with very little rust at all. I have a good title. My guess is a Canadian snow bird brought it here. No signs of tow brackets (like an RV TOWED) . Getting out there soon to hunt down the positive terminal block behind the dash. I got an idea to take the positive wire off the SAM, the battery  and put a meter to on it to look at resistance. See if the positive line is all good, where the voltage drop is.  I assume the SAM needs 12/13 volts and not 11. I cleaned the battery terminals and the ground bolt by the battery. I’ll clear the service code.  I’ll go over the terminals again. I have a perfect old laptop, a good copy of Windows 7. Work on the rest later. Thanks all. Get you all better pics. It’s pretty sad right now. I need to clean it up on the outside, just want it running first.

Edited by CRasman

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You need to research when you have the time, later tonight...lol....all threads pertaining to no start etc to see all the silly little nagging reasons these little cars stop working.  As I said above, many are ground related....that ground pin you found for the neg terminal, well there are many all around the car...all with a good chance to be corroded. The one in the engine bay is up under the front left of centre  lip...all have brown wiring attached to them.   Good luck happy hunting. 
It's interesting to see what a car starts out looking like to the finished product....for us folks stuck inside during the frozen winter months, we will take it all...lol.

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Well I got the service codes cleared (thank you!). Started cleaning wire connections up. Vacuumed the car out too. I have to find the end of the negative wire back by the engine. I still am thinking the ECU is not talking. I pulled out the connectors and sprayed them with cleaner and made sure none of the pins on the ECU are bent. I still have 12.5 out of the battery, and 11.7 from positive battery terminal to the frame. There she is. Sunburnt and on 3 wheels. I still might change the ECU  back to my supposedly programed backup and I need to get the the gear selector plug. I get it running I will get new tires on it. More tomorrow. Thanks all.  

IMG_2792.jpg

IMG_2793.jpg

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I’m back! Good news. I had a lot of help to get here. Thanks all. Keys have been taught in . All the cars systems seem good. Door locks have always worked from the fob. I had a continuous blinking key and the dots of the gas gauge. 
 

 Still no start. Issue now is (in neutral, foot on brake) I turn the key I hear what I think is the starter relay clicking. Nothing else. I do hear the transmission move through gears and the digits on the dash go with it. I’ve read all sorts of things like corrosion in the alternator or the starter. The ground strap, and I bet that’s part of its. I loose a volt when I test from the positive of the battery to the block. I did take a jumper cable and bonded the block to the negative terminal then I get the same voltage I get up front.  A good 12.5+.  Any idea , any further plan of attack I would be great full

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shoot some booster cables from battery ground right to the block then try and start it 

 

if it cranks you definitely need to fix the engine ground 

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also maybe try to wrench it over and make sure the engine isnt seized...good time to make sure the alt isnt stuck too

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