jAndrew

Oil filter sheared off

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While on the road we hit what turned out to be a metal piece that in turn sheared off the oil filter. Ran for a few seconds after that when the light went on and saw smoke. See the pics. Found the oil filter with the broken off 'nipple.' Having trouble finding out the scope of repair since it seems difficult to find a workshop manual. It appears the entire housing needs to come off but not even sure what housing it is or part number. If anyone can comment on what's involved to repair please let me know. Don't want to start taking things apart when I don't know the order of things. I work on our older vehicles with the help of workshop manuals if it means anything.

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Welcome to the site...enjoy.

I would hazard a guess and say the entire front cover is what is required by looking at that picture.   You could find a talented alliminium welder who could repair that section but by the time you paid his labor for welding I'll be the part would be cheaper. Especially used from scrapyard.   I bet you could pick that part up cheap from a wreckers.  As for a work shop manual, as far as I know they do not make any at least I know for sure not for the 450 except for a German printed basically useless one.  No Haynes or Clymer like the olden days..lol.   Try Evilution.co.uk and pay the smallest donation and get into the good information, best money for info you'll spend.    Seriously.  The owner Kane is a great guy also.  There is not chat there just info and you need to figure the site out to get into it.   Again it is worth every penny!

Again welcome.

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14 minutes ago, Willys said:

Welcome to the site...enjoy.

I would hazard a guess and say the entire front cover is what is required by looking at that picture.   You could find a talented alliminium welder who could repair that section but by the time you paid his labor for welding I'll be the part would be cheaper. Especially used from scrapyard.   I bet you could pick that part up cheap from a wreckers.  As for a work shop manual, as far as I know they do not make any at least I know for sure not for the 450 except for a German printed basically useless one.  No Haynes or Clymer like the olden days..lol.   Try Evilution.co.uk and pay the smallest donation and get into the good information, best money for info you'll spend.    Seriously.  The owner Kane is a great guy also.  There is not chat there just info and you need to figure the site out to get into it.   Again it is worth every penny!

Again welcome.

Thanks for the good info, I will try and source a front cover somewhere. I've been using Evilution for a couple of years, nothing about my issue there. I've signed up at the Mercedes site for access to a manual but it will take some time they say.

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I see it now on the front cover images. Looks to be beyond my time and patience. I will get a couple quotes for it around here and go from there. Not good at all.

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I do not know much if anything about the 451 model to be able to give honest accurate information on it...but....the 450 sub frame drops out with 4 bolts and then allows you to semi easily lift engine out to get at the front cover, possibly without splitting engine from transmission etc, just by loosening engine mounts etc to allow that much movement. Once you drop the sub frame everything is much much easier to deal with.....I have spent hours struggling with alternators and starters with sub frame in and after dropping it for a complete restoration, I no longer do anything without dropping it....so much easier.  There is enough slack wiring after releasing the wiring loom in places to get a good 10 inches of space.  Find images of it done and you'll see how much space you have and how easy it is to do. You simply block wheels front and back and then scissor lift both sides of car up just in front of sub frame.  Taking this to a shop may hurt I bet, but if you must just not a dealership or you may end up selling it for scrap when they give you the quote....augh!    IMHO, this is why most Smarts are in the scrapyards.  Over priced quotes for work needed.

Again good luck.

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24 minutes ago, Willys said:

I do not know much if anything about the 451 model to be able to give honest accurate information on it...but....the 450 sub frame drops out with 4 bolts and then allows you to semi easily lift engine out to get at the front cover, possibly without splitting engine from transmission etc, just by loosening engine mounts etc to allow that much movement. Once you drop the sub frame everything is much much easier to deal with.....I have spent hours struggling with alternators and starters with sub frame in and after dropping it for a complete restoration, I no longer do anything without dropping it....so much easier.  There is enough slack wiring after releasing the wiring loom in places to get a good 10 inches of space.  Find images of it done and you'll see how much space you have and how easy it is to do. You simply block wheels front and back and then scissor lift both sides of car up just in front of sub frame.  Taking this to a shop may hurt I bet, but if you must just not a dealership or you may end up selling it for scrap when they give you the quote....augh!    IMHO, this is why most Smarts are in the scrapyards.  Over priced quotes for work needed.

Again good luck.

Yes, not the dealership. I have a Land Rover, VW Syncro Doka, MB SLK230 as well and know not to EVER go to the dealership. I did watch a video of the oil sump refit and he lowered the engine a bit and it indeed looked pretty easy to do that way. I'll get some quotes and see how bad it hurts first, then decide. Not a great interest in Smarts here and even the independent shops are steep but you have to keep it on the road- I'm a firm believer in that.

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Bore, cut threads with thread cutting taps and fit a steel nipple. You will need both a bore guide and tapping guide.  

Should be easy to do provided you are sufficiently smart and not too clumsy. 

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Hmmmm.....cutting ne thread from scratch on a surface that doesn't start perfectly even isn't the simplest task for even skilled mechanics....and will result in a definate leaking outer seal.  It would have been my first option but i have had many years of repairing threads.   Can it be done sure....will it be successful ...that is the question.  Would I try.....yes.  Would I tell an unskilled person to try.....knowing what the risks are if it goes bad....don't think so.  To each their own.

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I am hesitant to try and tap it. I have done it on a flat surface inside but upside down on that small area worries me. I suppose trying it would only cost the tap and guide and if I mess it up I would revert to the original plan of replacing the cover. Will get an estimate on that first and see how painful financially it will be. I have a couple of other vehicles I'd rather spend the time and money on for sure.

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15 hours ago, tolsen said:

Bore, cut threads with thread cutting taps and fit a steel nipple. You will need both a bore guide and tapping guide.  

Should be easy to do provided you are sufficiently smart and not too clumsy. 

Thanks, something to consider but perhaps too difficult for me upside down.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

9 hours ago, Willys said:

Hmmmm.....cutting ne thread from scratch on a surface that doesn't start perfectly even isn't the simplest task for even skilled mechanics....and will result in a definate leaking outer seal.  It would have been my first option but i have had many years of repairing threads.   Can it be done sure....will it be successful ...that is the question.  Would I try.....yes.  Would I tell an unskilled person to try.....knowing what the risks are if it goes bad....don't think so.  To each their own.

 

thats why he mentions bore guide and tap guide..id say its pretty simple but needs proper set up to get it straight

 

youll only get one chance so might as well do it right the first time 

Edited by LooseLugNuts

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Posted (edited) · Report post

my first step would be to try and find something like this that fits the original filter 

 

ignore the measurements and find whatever one you need...

 

techtalk:ih:oil:79-85_oil_filter_adapter

 

 

Edited by LooseLugNuts

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Posted (edited) · Report post

17 hours ago, LooseLugNuts said:

 

thats why he mentions bore guide and tap guide..id say its pretty simple but needs proper set up to get it straight

 

youll only get one chance so might as well do it right the first time 

Yes it may be simple for a properly set up shop or skilled mechanic...but we aren't talking about that are we.   No offense to the original poster but he's not the skilled equipped mechanic required to get it done correctly or he wouldn't be asking for help with this job...imho.   No disrespect to anyone who knows how to fix this issue the right way, but to suggest to a non-skilled person to have a go even with the correct tools and zero knowledge is irresponsible imho. He could tap it off centre causing a leak and not know it until he drives it dry of oil....or possibly leave debris inside the work area and send that into an oil passage blocking the oil flow causing similar issues.  Just saying is all....if the OP is capable then great....but if he follows the suggested proceedure and destroys his engine then who's laughing then...Hmmmm....?   I bet I know who won't be..!

I'll even bet a shop won't risk tapping that out for the same reasons.  Unless the owner signs off on the possible damages...

 

Christ why not simply suggest using JB-Weld and sticking it in place...lol.   DON'T DO IT...!!!!    Just joking!

 

The correct way is to replace the front cover even with a used one from wreckers yard....easy job but time consuming......far less risk of screwing it up and destroying your engine.

Edited by Willys

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very very unlikely youll ever get that part from a wrecker

 

they will insist on selling the engine complete 

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56 minutes ago, LooseLugNuts said:

very very unlikely youll ever get that part from a wrecker

 

they will insist on selling the engine complete 

Probably but maybe they have a damaged engine or one semi stripped that still has that piece left for you to take from it....I don't know, but I would research it to find out if it's at all possible.  In the end it's his engine and his decision and risk to take....I know what i would do....after taking a very close look at what is actually left to work with....etc etc.

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25 minutes ago, Nigel said:

Sometimes parts are reasonably priced at the dealer.

I have been pleasantly shocked a few times..!

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just my 5 cents.   its already broke,  your not going to break it anymore by trying.  

worst thing that will come out of trying to fix it,  is that you won't be able too,  but at least you tried.

then go out and buy the part...

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So I've gone back and forth a few times on this and, thanks to all the comments, will try to tap it and go ahead and use a remote kit. 

 

I am leaning toward paying someone will experience in metal work to do the bore and tap. I don't mind paying what's right for this. 

 

Can some of you comment on this kit from Summit? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-70966/questionsanswers . It's M20 so...anyway, let me know. Then if it cannot be tapped will do the cover. The car is still pristine otherwise with less than 20K miles and otherwise better than new.

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Is this the correct cover...?   I couldn't find anything else anywhere at the moment, 20 minutes of searching for one...?

 

https://guide.alibaba.com/shop/08-09-10-11-12-13-14-smart-car-timing-chain-cover-with-water-pum_9207133.html

 

Most timing covers for all sorts of vehicles are around the $100 mark or less.   Add up the tap  and tools to do job, or the labor and time to get it done, and also remote kit.....you far out price the new to you timing cover.  IF you can wait for maybe a used one to surface and can swap one out...that is my choice....far less risk and expense as far as i can see than the route you are thinking of...?  Besides you can inspect all chains and sprockets while you have it apart...?  IF the car is as nice as you say, seems crazy to risk a shade tree fix....that could result in a bad outcome....just my bent nickel's worth of advise....if it were mine it's the way I'd be going.   

 

You were very lucky to not have ruined your engine when it came off in the first place.   Just think if you hadn't seen or felt it  and kept driving...augh!

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10 minutes ago, Willys said:

 

The only thing keeping me from doing the cover swap is the lack of instructions on how to do it. While I've rebuilt several engines and restored other makes it has always been with a good workshop manual. I'm not a mechanic by any means but can follow directions and it's usually worked okay. I've filled out the forms to get access to the MB resources but have heard nothing back. The other digital resources seem just to be owners manuals. I hate to start pulling off parts without a clue.

 

I did find a cover for $130 but at this point I just want it on the road. If it costs $150 or $500 it needs to be done. 

 

I agree adding up the tooling costs, and then paying someone could push it way up. I've contacted 2 independent shops and neither has gotten back to me after 2 days. Seems like no one wants to work on it. 

 

Can you tell I am conflicted? If it was any of our other vehicles they would be back on the road by now. I don't like having something sitting in the garage not being able to move.

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If you can take a video of what you are doing as you are taking it apart it will help you put it all back together. Especially if you describe what it is you are doing to yourself.  I agree I have always used a manual of some sort as a back up in the past. Even the German one I have for the 450 doesn't show what a simple Haynes showed us back in the day...!!!   A complete let down , but it did show a few things I didn't know compared to other engines I have built.  Hey it's your car and in the end up to you....you know my thoughts obviously by now...lol.  Anything can be repaired or fixed if you have the skills to do the job.  Also anything can be ruined if you don't have those skills. No offense to anyone. Consider it a learning experience and have a go. But I wouldn't do anything without having a second case in your hands just in case you do mess this one up.  Good luck.....you can do it I'm sure.    I also think repairing the old one would be 100% easier off the car also. Clamped firmly in a mill to get the bore and tap 100% straight.

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33 minutes ago, Willys said:

Clamped firmly in a mill to get the bore and tap 100% straight.

Agreed. Although the tooling costs might make swapping a new one in more attractive than tapping the old one. I did see a video about the timing change install that might help me.

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