New member questioning sanity

[Dewie 15]

5 minutes ago, Sydney said:

how many clicks on the car?   i know you have a lot more to address before you take it for a spin.   but shifting could be something as simple as a bad wire to the clutch actuator.   does it make a constant clunking noise by any chance when you try to shift it to driver or reverse?   could be a bad clutch actuator or a punched thru clutch fork,  or a broken wire to the electric shift drum.

 

There is 168k showing on the odometer, or sometimes -2700?? 

No constant clunking noises, at least not that I can hear over the engine. I've been by myself working on it thus far so I haven't been able to get someone to shift it for me while I poke around either. I read up on the punched through clutch fork issue yesterday, which I find odd as it uses a very similar setup to VWs which last numerous hundreds of thousands of kms. I'm thinking it has more to do with excessive use with city traffic vs hwy use, though I have heard of people wearing them out when they sit at a light with their foot on the clutch vs shifting in to neutral and letting off the clutch. 

The Check-Engine light is on (who is surprised?!?! anyone?! haha) and the Air Bag light also, I'll add those to the list of things to fix  

 

[Sydney 218]

the -2700.   is just saying its 2,700 over its scheduled service.   its easy to reset that using the trip odometer button on top of the speedo pod.   (i just can't remember the steps).  easy to find if you just google it.

like you say,  now that you have it running,  you can concentrate on the wiring mess.  once you get the wiring fixed up,  the rest might just fall into place.

[Dewie 15]

yeah the maintenance interval thing is the least of my concerns at this point - but good to know!

[Dewie 15]

Well tonight there was some progress - though I'm not sure in which direction. 

I discovered there was a bunch more bunt harness, the harness that goes to the transmission, so I started tearing in to it and found the driver's side a bit more rusty than the passenger's side when I removed the inner fender. 

 

*sigh*

 

Everything is bloody saturated in oil... 

 

 

Inner fender is nice and melty:

 

Turns out the air intake is too:

 

And finally  I got the harness dug out:

 

and then separated the charcoal from the wires and found really only the one plug NEEDED wires replaced immediately:

 

So I did just that. Now when I turn the key on it says it is in 6th gear before flashing the 3 bars of death. These repairs also did not seem to have any impact on the starter solenoid wire. Lots of clicking under the dash like it is trying to output power but nothing at the starter end. 

 

I can't lie, I had my fingers crossed that I'd just plug everything in again and it would work, but I wasn't holding my breath  

 

I guess next I will continue moving towards dropping the engine some more. Already removed the back bumper this evening (turns out I don't need a whole bumper, just the center panel - woohoo).

 

While I was doing some general cleaning I discovered this mess around one of the boost hoses, it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling that the hoses are in great shape either:

 

[Willys 747]

Dollars to donuts, that inter cooler is punched...it'll come down to how ready you are to repair it.  Back yard fix works and it involves JB-Weld...lol.  OR a new cooler can be had for not too much from Germany.  The top hose is usually the one with a rub through from wiring loom.  You can see the area in that pic just to the right and up from the duct tape...lol.  Not sure if another scan tool reteaches gear selection motor...? STAR does. 

 

I do not know how that car didn't burn to the ground with all the signs of plastic drooping...lol. Damn!

 

Also the rust is typical, my beater had the same rust and the wreck from Montreal was even worse. Drivers side .....just a single person vehicle.....no inside salt penetration from winter boots...?   You'll soon find it'll leak like a siv also....again maybe that is what stopped it burning to the ground...lol.   What roof does it have?  My sun roof leaked so bad i simply siliconed it shut...lol.

 

 

[Dewie 15]

The car seems to have a glass roof of some nature; I've not really spent a whole lot of time looking at anything but the engine compartment. I believe it is a Passion? 

How the car didn't erupt in to a fireball I don't know, the amount of oil everywhere is impressive; and I come from driving old VWs haha. This combined with the amount of heat that was under there... owner was lucky!

 

I'll likely do the JB Weld fix. Most everything I am doing is to make the car work initially, fix properly after. We will have to see what I find once I get the engine dropped. I REALLY need to look at the fuses yet too; I have yet to do so. The previous owner pointed out that some mod had been done to install external relays for the headlights, it looks like there is a fuse hanging off the side which feeds some external relays up under the dash. 

 

Ideally I'd take the car out and pressure wash it but there is all this white stuff on the ground and it's cold out so I'll likely have to just buy a case of brake clean and some rags or something. 

[Willys 747]

Yes you need to take down the fuse panel that is better known as the SAM.....it will have internal issues as well I'll bet. Search out SAM issues and you'll get a load of threads detailing them and how to fix them. There are 8 I think extras fuse locations off to the side of the SAM housing half constant power and the rest switched power.  The black oily mess from the inter cooler is a bugger to get off easily also the EGR...I use gasoline as the first line of defence then work t5o the usual chemicals.....seems to attack the oil better for some reason..?   But I'm sure you have experience with the VW's  in the same way.
The glass roof is nice imho. far less to leak and it gives you a nice view while driving BUT, beware it will shatter easily if tapped that is why the thick film is on the front of the roof as they had this issue. My wreck had a plexi-glass roof screwed to it due to this happening, frig'in butcher, the last owner....ruined the car completely! 

[Dewie 15]

Well tonight I A- Found the ECU and B- tested all the wires to the various transmission components to make sure they weren't shorted and had continuity. They do. 

I started to try to remove the ECU and just broke screws off. Not a huge loss as I have to replace the air box anyways. The bottom screws look like they're going to have to be removed with a swift blow from a chisel anyways. 

 

I tested all the fuses in the SAM, all were fine. I haven't removed it yet to have a look at it but that's on the todo list also. 

 

My father stopped by and helped me confirm there is absolutely no noises coming from the rear to indicate it is trying to shift. I was also able to confirm the clutch is shifting, so I guess that's a good thing. 

 

Is there anywhere, other than https://www.evilution.co.uk/, that has any decent wiring diagrams? they have them for the gas engines but not for the diesel. I assumed (correctly) that the pins for the transmission would be common between the gas and diesel but I'm at a loss for everything else. <Edit> Nowwww I discover there is a diagram for JUST the transmission... makes a hell of a lot more sense... 

 

One thing that my father pointed out is that the alternator light isn't on when the car is running... with no alternator belt... and no battery charger hooked up - so that's not ideal either. 

 

I wasn't able to get any normal ODB2 Engine codes to appear - well that is I couldn't get them to come back after I cleared them (I had everything transmission unplugged when I hooked up the power again, of course it had errors initially). I found this kind of odd as the car obviously knows there is an issue with the transmission as it's blinking the 3 lines of death. I even started the car and had it running a while with no codes coming back... My father was able to tell me that when I crank the engine over manually at the solenoid the wheels spin, but when it's started they don't, we're wondering if it is in fact in gear...

I also need to look in to how to test the Gear Change Motor; if anyone has any tips or tricks there that'd be great too. It kind of looks like it's maybe a return-to-neutral solenoid? apply current one way and the plunger goes one way, apply current the other and it goes the other way? Just a guess from looking at the wiring for the thing. 

[Sydney 218]

remove the clutch actuator and make sure the rod has not punched thru the clutch fork.  the fork is only thin and if not properly maintained and preloaded,  it will eventually punch thru.   be careful removing the 3 little bolts holding the actuator on,  they break easy.

you will easily be able to see the fork with a flashlight,  when the actuator is removed.

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Sydney

[Leadwing 565]

16 hours ago, Dewie said:

 I believe it is a Passion?

 

This, I can help you with.  Look at the photo attached.  The circled area will have either Pure, Pulse or Passion printed on it in that elongated oval.

 

The -2700 means that either the car is 2,700 km overdue for service of someone didn't know how to reset the service reminder.

 

WOW!  That's a lot of rust.  168K isn't that much really.  My winter beater has over 215,000 on it

[Dewie 15]

6 hours ago, Leadwing said:

 

This, I can help you with.  Look at the photo attached.  The circled area will have either Pure, Pulse or Passion printed on it in that elongated oval.

 

The -2700 means that either the car is 2,700 km overdue for service of someone didn't know how to reset the service reminder.

 

WOW!  That's a lot of rust.  168K isn't that much really.  My winter beater has over 215,000 on it

 

 

Thanks - I was more questioning my memory than what the insignia on the side said haha

The service indicator actually has something like -21700 showing apparently

 

As for rust, welcome to Atlantic Canada... this isn't even that bad. 

 

9 hours ago, Sydney said:

remove the clutch actuator and make sure the rod has not punched thru the clutch fork.  the fork is only thin and if not properly maintained and preloaded,  it will eventually punch thru.   be careful removing the 3 little bolts holding the actuator on,  they break easy.

you will easily be able to see the fork with a flashlight,  when the actuator is removed.

 

 

When the actuator pushes in it disengages the clutch; I'll dig in to that if/when it gives issues. One question I do about it though is if the boot is supposed to cover the hole in the bellhousing? Mine is not. 

[Sydney 218]

41 minutes ago, Dewie said:

 

When the actuator pushes in it disengages the clutch; I'll dig in to that if/when it gives issues. One question I do about it though is if the boot is supposed to cover the hole in the bellhousing? Mine is not. 

 

no,  (nothing seals the hole in the bell housing) the rubber boot is supposed to just seal around the rod and actuator,  to keep water and crap out.  but it doesn't do a very good job.   when the time comes and you get to have a peek at the actuator,  it will probably need a good flush out and relube. i flush mine out with degreaser then dry it with compressed air,  then relube with lithium grease.

 

[Dewie 15]

Not much of an update:

 

Weather has been good so I've been clearing trees in preparation for a building lot for a new garage. 

 

I popped the test light in the leads for the gear selector motor, the light blinks 6 or 7 times when you turn the key on. I don't think the blinks are long/strong enough that they'd move the motor. 

I set about removing the selector motor to bench test and the shroud for the intercooler is preventing me from getting on the top bolt. 

I set about removing the engine/cradle and can't get at the bottom bolt for the AC Compressor. I set about removing the right side engine mount so I could drop the cradle down and access the bolt and broke off one of the bolts in the block. I then went to the woods and cut down trees. 

I'll get it all eventually - I just haven't the patience for it right now haha

[Willys 747]

Hmmmm......forget about separating the air con pump from the engine, simply refill it after the job is done imho.   So now you only have the few screws holding the air intake to the air box and the 4 larger sub frame bolts to deal with. again IMHO.

 

You will instantly see why we are suggesting this to you once you have it either lifted far enough up off the sub frame or the sub frame out from under the car. Everything becomes so much easier to work on and you can see everything also.

That last bolt near the inter cooler shroud also will be easy to get at.....also do you have a strong battery when you are trying to send these power messages to the started and gear selector? The car demands a strong battery, plain and simple. OR it being charged and showing above the 12.6 V charged state.  Even the STAR system won't work unless it sees above 12.6 Volts. It wants full charge as well.

A new garage.....damn...lucky guy!  make it bigger than you first think you need, you can always fill the extra space with crap but you can't expand it after the fact if you find  you need to...lol.

[Dewie 15]

I am about to have at this again today, where do you folks commonly disconnect the fuel lines? Looks like the supply line goes down inside the block? Does this assembly just pull out? 

[Dewie 15]

... And the coolant lines... 

[Willys 747]

What are you doing exactly? If lowering the subframe or lifting the body up off the sub frame you simply remove the two bolts that hold down the far right section of the fuel supply hoses so they can "float to allow you to lift the body up away from sub frame.

They can be a pain to get to and may require you to undo a few other smaller bits to easily be able to get at these bolts.  Good luck...if this isn't what you are refering to please show in a pic.....so my old brain can visually see what it is you are going after....lol....thanks.

 

[Dewie 15]

I was going to pull the entire cradle assembly out from under the car. I need to access the front side of the engine repair the starter etc and everything is currently in tight quarters for trying to lay under the car. Basically everything is a mess and it needs to come out, be cleaned, inspected, repaired as necessary and re-installed... Starter, alternator, egr, intercooler, ecu, turbo may be seized, etc. 

[Willys 747]

So, yes undo the fuel at the same location as I mentioned, don't forget the intake scoop for the air box, 6 screws if memory serves me correct. Then pinch off brake lines at front of sub frame or somehow stop fluid from escaping and running the whole system dry...ask me how i know...lol. Lift the car and undo power to alt/starter, main wiring harness by simply carefully unclipping all connectors etc and labeling each correctly. Just help when coming to reinstalation.  I also use bare rims to get sub frame lower and roll it out on those. Just helps with over all height required to get the sub frame out.   It's an easy job, after you do the first one, it'll be really easy every time after that. Don't forget the wheel sensor plugs front left hand side in from of the sub frame next to the brake lines.
Doing all the work you mention will be so easy once you get the sub frame out from underneath.   Enjoy...

[Dewie 15]

Thanks for the advice above Willys, I have the engine on a motorcycle lift so I was able to use that to roll it out from under the car. 

 

Before removing everything we did some playing with the gear selector motor. I manually ran it through the gears a few times by disconnecting the plug from the ECU and it is not stuck. We tested the resistance of the sensor used to do the re-learning process and it's within spec. 

 

After running the motor a few times we hooked it up to the ECU again and wouldn't you know it, the ECU is still able to make it move too; but we still got the 3 bars after a few noises. Unhooked and ran it through the gears a few more times then hooked it all up again and... it seems to be happy now somehow. No 3 bars anymore; but I can't get it to start still. We figured what the heck time to pull it; it has to be done anyways so I did just that. 

 

I don't know how this car didn't burn to the ground...

 

We finally, for sure, found the point where the starter wire shorted. Check out the subframe ahead of the gear selector motor; there is a burnt hole. 

 

The alternator casing is cracked but I got it to free up on the bench with the impact wrench. 

For sure I need a new Intercooler shroud, I need to figure out how the frig to get the boost tube closest to the engine block off. 

We frigged with stuff for a bit but ultimately ended up spraying everything down with penetrating fluid and leaving it for the day. I aim to get the subframe off of the engine, pressure wash it and paint it. I'll pressure wash everything else also; in good time. That's all I found time for today, afternoon was spent season prepping and putting away the snow blower and snow plow followed by a bunch of related farm stuffs. 

 

I also need to look up how to remove the starter so I get it off and get it cleaned up... I'm hoping it's not as bad as it looks (separate the transmission???) 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Dewie
incomplete thought.

[Dewie 15]

Hmmmmm - after a bit of reading this morning I see I should be getting a "N" displayed before the car will crank and start; I still was not getting that. I really need to get a diagnostic system hooked up to it and "see" what the ECU thinks is going on. 

[Willys 747]

And here we go, finally....lol.

I'd make sure all possible entrance ways to the internals are plugged off and then go nuts pressure washing the whole thing as one. As it is basically a sealed unit at the moment so to speak.  Once you start removing bits and pieces you will open it up so dirt and debris will get inside while using the pressure washer...imho.  I'd guess the alt housing got cracked by someone beating on it to free it up in another life. Definately not worth messing with now anyway.  I agree, I can't see how this car didn't burn completely, very lucky so to speak. Maybe the battery just wasn't strong enough after the initial short effects to keep this hot enough? But the melted plastic should have done it I would have thought by the looks of it!
Go semi easy on the inter cooler rad with the pressure washer as the fins will flatten out easily when hit with a good washer.  I would soak the whole thing in gasoline, yes I know environment this and that but it will fetch the most off the fastest and cheapest, well maybe not the cheapest any longer...lol. I bet Sydney will have most of the parts you will need for the shroud or at least enough of one to be able to build up from it. I also lengthened mine closer to the road to get even more air flow through it. Yep searching for all them ponies locked up inside somewhere...lol. I also made a tunnel out of rubber matting from Princess Auto just to force any air through the cooler and not escape between body and shroud as the shroud is an open one between body and engine.  The cooler is punched for sure and probably badly looking at how much oil has migrated around the engine and back up through the scoop.  It'll be far better to see things after a good pressure washing. The sub frame even still has black paint in places so not that bad

 

[Dewie 15]

2 hours ago, Willys said:

I'd make sure all possible entrance ways to the internals are plugged off and then go nuts pressure washing the whole thing as one. As it is basically a sealed unit at the moment so to speak.  Once you start removing bits and pieces you will open it up so dirt and debris will get inside while using the pressure washer...imho.

 

That's the plan 

 

2 hours ago, Willys said:

I'd guess the alt housing got cracked by someone beating on it to free it up in another life.

No it swelled between the dissimilar metals of the aluminum casing and the steel inside. Quite common here on the East Coast unfortunately ($%^&* salt)

 

 

2 hours ago, Willys said:

The sub frame even still has black paint in places so not that bad

 

I think most of what you're seeing is oil/melted plastic that's black haha - I'll get it off and cleaned up and paint it and go from there. 

Thanks again! My list of parts from @Sydney is ever growing...

[Dewie 15]

Small Update

I'd been spraying most every bolt with anti-seize/rust buster/penetrating fluid in hopes things might come apart more easily when I finally found some time to look at this project again. Not sure if it helped or not as I still have a few rounded off/stripped/broken bolts to deal with... 

Today I placed a furniture moving dolly under the back end of the car and was able to just grab hold of the front passenger's side tire and pull the car over a ft or so to get it more out of the way in my garage. I was actually able to lift the whole back end of the car off the jack stands (briefly) :| There sure isn't much to these cars haha

 

Once I had some more room I started in to the disassembly:

Thanks whoever used anti-seize on these bolts; I expected them to break off:

 

I then set about removing the top subframe, not sure what you folks call it. Discovered I need a rear coil spring in addition to a front one:


Once that was removed I had access to the bolt that was holding me up in removing the AC Compressor, which I needed to do to gain access to the starter to fix the wire between the solenoid and the starter motor. 
When I finally had access to this bolt I got about half a turn on it before realizing it wasn't actually coming out :| With there being absolutely no room anywhere to get a torch in I had to investigate other ideas. In this case I noticed the water pump housing itself is the mounting point for the AC compressor, so off it came. Only broke off one bolt...


Now that that was out of the way I finally have access to the pesky fried starter connection:


I managed to get the broken off bolt out of the block for the water pump housing and, once I get the oil cleaned up around the intercooler, I have to weld a nut to a broken off bolt that held the Intercooler Shroud on also. There is also one bolt on an engine mount on the back side of the block which is broken off I will have to do something about with as well. 

Next up is removing the axles so I can get the lower sub-frame bit off then I'll waterproof a few things and set about cleaning it up and start re-assembly. 

[Dewie 15]

I guess while I have everything apart... What else should I be looking at? What are common areas where there is issues (aside from wiring harnesses catching on fire, etc)?

- My Oil return line looks seedy, should likely source a new one of those
- Check ABS Reluctor Rings

- Water Pump seems ok, no play and no sign it was leaking

- Alternator is cracked and broken but was able to get it freed up

- Starter seemed to work fine aside from the post on the solenoid that needs to be cleaned up. 

- Any obvious motor mount issues I should look for?

- Check for tears in CV boots etc. 

- ??? 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Dewie