flekker

2005 450 CDI running rough

26 posts in this topic

Posted (edited) · Report post

Thanks for any help in advance. Really great site.

My 2005  suddenly started funning rough after a 100 km Hw drive.  When I pulled of the ramp it felt like its not running on all cylinders.

Currently it hard to start. It will eventually start, starter stays engaged for couple seconds while engine is running. The engine is running but very rough at idle and does not get any better with higher RPM. (looks like it wants to jump out of the engine bay at idle). If I push the gas pedal the RPM goes up but not smooth.  

At about 2800 RPM and up I can hear a rattling sound coming from the engine. Rocker cover removed for inspection and did not see anything out of place.

My question is would a bad or dead injector give a rattling sound on the cylinder that is dead. A little white smoke coming from exhaust but nothing crazy.

Edited by flekker
additional info

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Posted (edited) · Report post

did you just fuel up?   mabey bad fuel?   or plugged fuel filter and its starving for fuel.

just guessing the simple things first.

 

 

Edited by Sydney

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i would probably unplug an injector one at a time and see which one has no effect  (will these even run on just 2 cylinders?)

 

or a compression test

 

my guess would be valve damage but i tend to assume the worst

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I'd agree with LLN   even remove each injector just to see what it looks like? After trying to see if each is firing.  IS the alternator siezed?  Yep I know stupid but you'd be surprised...lol.  See if injector is loose and lost it's seal? Resulting in no compression? A small amount of soapy water will show instantly any leaks. 
Have you run a scan test for codes?  IF not please do and let us know.
Fingers crossed.

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Thanks for the replies guys.

The engine dies when  any injector is unplugged, I’d say they are all firing. No loose injector found, removed all 3 injectors ( they came out effortlessly) and hardly anything on them. I can’t see it being alternator related, but I’ll try that tonight. No codes. The only time it throws a code is if I unplug something while the engine is running.

I also noticed last night that I have a lot of white smoke when revving it up.

the sound in the clip is when the engine reaches 2500 rpm.

IMG_4298.MOV

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White smoke is usually head gasket......what is the coolant like in the reservoir at the front tank? No oil?  I couldn't play your clip, wasn't supported ...???

 

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Where abouts are you?

 

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I’m I’m located in Lindsey ontario 

pocked up a used motor today 

Will do the swap tomorrow 

what kind of oil does the transmission take 

Any tips on motor Re & Re would be appreciated.

never took one out on a smart before 

 

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that sound clip was awful short but sounded like a spun rod bearing to me

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Tips for removing engine is drop sub frame, 4 bolts , loosen a few items, undo a few more and it's out....simple after the first time.  Far easier than messing trying to get it out from below. Simply roll sub frame out then lift the engine out, it's almost one man liftable depending upon the condition of your back...lol. Two guys for sure if no engine lift. 

I couldn't get sound clip to work, sorry.

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Starting the process now.

Sorry for the short sound clip, that’s all the system would allow me to upload.

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Engine swap completed. Now I can’t get the thing to start.

it cranks healthy, there is fuel at the injector,it sounds like it want to. Little bit of black smoke while cranking, very little.

Seller confirmed engine ran fine when removed 4 month ago.

Not sure where the best place to start would be.

What do you guys think about some quick start, personally I don’t like the stuff. If been using propane instead.

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Well she is alive

Purged a little bit more air from the system and all of a sudden we were rolling coal.

She idles a little bit lumpy but seems to get better the longer she runs.

Is there any sport of learning process that’s involved ?

 Is I’m trying to find out out why the coolant light is staying in the dash. Temp is rising, coolant tank is getting warm and I have hot air.

Any suggestions 

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I am still having a starting problem.

it cranks like is wants to go, but no luck.

if I keep at it it will eventually start.

If it sits for more than an hour hard starting again. Outside temp is 10c.

it will go with some quick start but not right away, maybe after about 10 min of

trying.

Hope someone can point me in the correct direction 

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Was told once that you need to burp the baby smart when you change the coolant,  Something about jacking the front of the car way up to allow the air pocket to move to the expansion tank,  

sorry could not be more help.

Alan

 

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i always vented the air thru the temp sensor near the thermostat...never had a problem doing it that way

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2 hours ago, flekker said:

I am still having a starting problem.

it cranks like is wants to go, but no luck.

if I keep at it it will eventually start.

If it sits for more than an hour hard starting again. Outside temp is 10c.

it will go with some quick start but not right away, maybe after about 10 min of

trying.

Hope someone can point me in the correct direction 

 

 

get it running...take it for boot 

 

sometimes a good drive is needed to get things back into shape

 

also listen carefully for compression strokes ...if uneven compression sometimes you can hear it during cranking

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900 ohms for the cranks sensor, all good there.

LLN I’ll take it for a rip and see what gives.

Is there anyone in the Lindsey area  (150km) that has a proper scanner for smart cars

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I'll bet it's fuel related as in pressure from either pump. OR air in the system.  Have you rebuilt the high pressure pump yet? It's a good thing to do any ways imho. I may have a kit here if you do not have one, maybe as I just rebuilt one for myself.  I'll check tomorrow. Also did you as LLN suggests, burping the coolant at the thermostat location? That is easiest if you lower the back sub frame bolts to allow enough room for your hands to get at the thermostat. Just a question, have you looked at the white connection plug located in the battery well in front of the battery. I'll bet it's green. Same goes for the inside of the silver box close to the battery, both suffer from water issues. Have you looked at the ECU plugs just to check for green in those also? I had 3 pins dirty, beware, it will short out and fry your ECU.   Have you checked the spray pattern from your injectors? I used carb cleaner and an assortment of hoses to get it from spray hose to inlet port for injector. You may simply have a poorly cleaned injecotr enough to upset the idle or firing? A sonic cleaner works wonders. New nozzles are better. $50ish each. I feel I have suggested these before or was it another thread...lol. I have a STAR also.

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Thanks for the suggestions Willys.

No, the high pressure pump was not rebuilt and the low pressure pump works fine. At least I think so, I used it to drain the tank.

Coolant issue was incorrect info on my part no issues there. I was looking at the oil pressure light. Sensor was bad and was replaced. The white plug in battery box is corroded and green, will have to fix that. (Car started  fine with old engine). No I did not check spray pattern on injectors ( don’t have the equipment for this), but I swapped the injects from the running engine into it. I did have a corrode terminal on the brown connector at the sam unit and rectified it this was when the old engine was still installed and it started fine.

The only difference is the engine. Old engine started fine so for now I’m ruling out anything that did not get replaced. 
I left all the sensors on the diner engine and installed it as a package.

Parts that I’ve swapped from the old running engine into the car so far are, all 3 injectors and fuel rail pressure sensor. I have also tested the crank sensor resistance and it’s good.

 

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I have noticed that if I crack the line at any injector, when the key is turned to the on position  and the low pressure pump is running fuel starts squirting out.( not cranking the engine ) Is that normal ??

Should it not only squirt fuel only when the high pressure pump is engaged ( engine cranking )

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Maybe that is why the high pressure pump may need a peek just to be sure. I found that my top valve in each cylinder were bad. The springs were collapsed or pinched holding them open and not building any pressure. I did post it up on one of the past threads somewhere. I'd have to search for it?  I think I posted up pictures of the offending pieces also...?  They can be purchased from the dealership and aren't that expensive. I replaced them all, 3 of them just to know I have all in good operation state.

 

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Just swapped the high pressure pump and no change.

It cranks like it wants to but no go.

Not even with quick start, it just alarmist wants to but go. All 3 injector are a getting a pulse signal as well.

What would be considered low compression on these engines.

I’ll have to pick up diesel compression tester tomorrow. Other than that I’m at a lost.

Any help would be appreciated 

 

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