flekker

2005 450 CDI running rough

46 posts in this topic

remove injector retainers,  then crank the engine by hand.  see if the injectors get pushed out.

should give you an idea if you have good compression in all 3 cyl.

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So  I got another engine and transmission complete, All I had to do was plug the one harness into the computer (at the air box) and plug in the square plug to the slow plug computer (RH side of the engine on the frame).

It ran fine for a couple hours. Ran really nice with quiet a frew start and stops. Other than an egr code . Absolutely no hiccups. Then I go to the store, shut the car off, started the car after about 10 min. It hesitates slightly drives for about 8 meters then dies.

Does not want to start, sounds like it wants to.

It’s doing the same thing as the last engine iI put in.  I can hear the fuel pump when I turn it on. So now I’m thinking it has to be on the car side. Since I have no check engine light could it be the computer.

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OK, have you opened up the SAM and ECU and searched for any water damage yet?  All the other electrical things suggested?   IZZY had a car do the same thing and he found that there was a shorted/cut wire running from SAM to ECU which was causing this issue.....search back for this type of issue or contact IZZY(stickman007) and ask him what wire it was and start the search for it.  You can not run the car if you switch out the computers unless you have a STAR to reprogram / teach them to speak with each other. Ask me how I know....augh!  I have replaced my ECU after shorting out the pins. It holds a charge in it's capacitors, BEWARE!!!

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5 minutes ago, flekker said:

Does anyone have a wire diagram for a 2005 Smart Fortwo diesel they would like to share 

 

When you find this, please let the rest of us know....we've been searching for one for years!

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On 2021-04-04 at 9:07 PM, flekker said:

I am still having a starting problem.

it cranks like is wants to go, but no luck.

if I keep at it it will eventually start.

If it sits for more than an hour hard starting again. Outside temp is 10c.

it will go with some quick start but not right away, maybe after about 10 min of

trying.

Hope someone can point me in the correct direction 

This replacement engine, how are the glow plugs? The injectors are they different or are they the ones from the other engine?

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33 minutes ago, Wild! said:

This replacement engine, how are the glow plugs? The injectors are they different or are they the ones from the other engine?

The second engine I installed did not reuse anything from the original or the first replacement engine I thought had compression issues.

I lucked out and found a complete package deal.( engine and tranny complete with all sensors, actuators harness etc) the only parts that were reused was the alternator, starter and ac compressor.

I installed the engine, plugged the one harness in to the computer and the other to the glow plug module.

After couple hours of running it quit while driving and now no start.

The first replacement engine did almost the same thing.

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Do you still have your EGR  connected or still using it on both engine installs?  

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Cold solder joint, heating up while driving then once stopped can't conduct juice...?  SAM or ECU...?  OR a bad connector somewhere within your wiring harness between SAM and ECU...nasty job of triple checking every wire and connection before and after each joint.   Again, contact Stickman007 as he has had this issue and found a bad signal between SAM and ECU. He said it took him days to find the bad wire. He simply replaced it and problem fixed.  Fingers crossed this is your problem.  It can't be the replacement engines if you have replaced many and they all have the same issues....what are the odds...?  It has to be an electrical issue in the car's signals to make the mechanics run.   Just my bent nickel's worth....lol.

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1 hour ago, Willys said:

Cold solder joint, heating up while driving then once stopped can't conduct juice...?  SAM or ECU...?  OR a bad connector somewhere within your wiring harness between SAM and ECU...nasty job of triple checking every wire and connection before and after each joint.   Again, contact Stickman007 as he has had this issue and found a bad signal between SAM and ECU. He said it took him days to find the bad wire. He simply replaced it and problem fixed.  Fingers crossed this is your problem.  It can't be the replacement engines if you have replaced many and they all have the same issues....what are the odds...?  It has to be an electrical issue in the car's signals to make the mechanics run.   Just my bent nickel's worth....lol.

I agree

it has to be the wiring from the computer to the car.  So far I found bad ground but no luck starting. Stickman gave a great suggestion on wires coming from ignition possibly braking the connection making the computer think the key was shut off and maybe thats why I also have no codes showing.  Gonna check that this evening.  I was too frustrated yesterday and had to take the time to figure out how to get the shifter knob off ( I figured my one idea of putting a chain around it, attach the other end to the tow hitch of my truck and flooring it was probably not a very good idea lol)

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2 hours ago, Wild! said:

Do you still have your EGR  connected or still using it on both engine installs?  

EGR still connected, both installs have their own EGR

First install was a clean EGR

Second install I didn’t even check to see if it was blocked or not. 

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So I checked the sam unit it getting power when the ignition is turned on and I have 12 in position 2 and 3.

How ever is plugged a light into the injector socket (injector unplugged). First flash of the light is somewhat bright after that it flashes once every revolution  but very dim. If I release the key and try a second time it cranks but no light at the injector (is this normal??). I have to double check and see if I  losing my neg or positive feed. Hard to measure the volts  but i would say maybe 6 volts or less and the first flash is probably around 10 volts. (just guessing here, but Im almost sure it's not getting 12 volts).  Trying to figure out what direction to go here, since the signal for the injector are coming from the computer.

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10 minutes ago, flekker said:

So I checked the sam unit it getting power when the ignition is turned on and I have 12 in position 2 and 3.

How ever is plugged a light into the injector socket (injector unplugged). First flash of the light is somewhat bright after that it flashes once every revolution  but very dim. If I release the key and try a second time it cranks but no light at the injector (is this normal??). I have to double check and see if I  losing my neg or positive feed. Hard to measure the volts  but i would say maybe 6 volts or less and the first flash is probably around 10 volts. (just guessing here, but Im almost sure it's not getting 12 volts).  Trying to figure out what direction to go here, since the signal for the injector are coming from the computer.

Use a battery charger to make sure you are providing a solid 12V plus when testing....
The SAM sends signal to ECU( engine's computer) to tell it to do it's magic not the SAM doing it all. Use the correct terminology for each part so we know which you are refering to, yes I know I 'm starting to sound Scottish...lol. Again take a very careful peek inside the ECU and see what condition it is in. My first one had bad water issues. It is also difficult to remove from airbox if it is anything like any of the ones i have removed.....screws usually all snap. Then it's a silicon job to reinstal, simple but time consuming to allow it to dry. Remember this ECU, computer holds a charge in it's capacitors...ask me how I know!   Also before you check the ECU un-power entire car and check connection plugs to the ECU to make sure current flows through each pin. AGAIN, do not short them out...!   Not sure if it works both ways in way of a held charge? I'd disconnect SAM while checking . Why buy something you do not need just due to a zap...?

I know I harp on at this but have you checked and fixed all water damaged areas before going after the big boy computers? The transport canada silver box, good and clean? That stupid white connection in battery well..? Open SAM and ECU with care after the easy stuff.  Again check all plugs on SAM to make sure they also do not have a bad connection going into the SAM unit. Has the SAM been opened before? Repaired before? Burnt wiring? Cold solder joints? Burnt plug for the N3-11 if I recall correctly plug? The one that controls the headlights and fuel pump...?

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Have you tried taking a set of good jumper cables and going directly from the neg battery post to the engine block to rule out a bad ground?  seems that a lot of gremlins in our cars are caused by a week ground.

Alan

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Got the smart running today. Pulled the carpet out of the car to gain access to the wire harness. Ended up cutting the wire for the air bag because I could not find a plug. Removed all ground connections, cleaned and put back together. Found some grounds damaged in the engine bay. Also replaced the main engine ground. Removed the sam. Checked wire from sam to CPU. Everything checked out fine (evilution  and fq 101 wire pin outs used) FYI all the wire location did not match.

plugged everything back in and she started.

Not sure what fixed it but I’ll keep my fingers crossed. Thank for the help everyone.

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28 minutes ago, flekker said:

Got the smart running today. Pulled the carpet out of the car to gain access to the wire harness. Ended up cutting the wire for the air bag because I could not find a plug. Removed all ground connections, cleaned and put back together. Found some grounds damaged in the engine bay. Also replaced the main engine ground. Removed the sam. Checked wire from sam to CPU. Everything checked out fine (evilution  and fq 101 wire pin outs used) FYI all the wire location did not match.

plugged everything back in and she started.

Not sure what fixed it but I’ll keep my fingers crossed. Thank for the help everyone.

I kept telling you check your grounds.....lol. Also the wiring from Evilution isn't the same for our CDI vehicles I have found....that is why I asked if you found a wiring schematic I would lo9ve to have it also....lol.
Very happy that you have found out what it was even if you are still unclear what it was.  
Again great news.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

On 4/18/2021 at 9:11 PM, Willys said:

I kept telling you check your grounds.....lol. Also the wiring from Evilution isn't the same for our CDI vehicles I have found....that is why I asked if you found a wiring schematic I would lo9ve to have it also....lol.
Very happy that you have found out what it was even if you are still unclear what it was.  
Again great news.

 

Having looked at the WIS (I don't know if you guys have access to one?) it looks like you can't get a good wiring diagram because every fricking system has an individual diagram, and there is no overarching diagram with good explanation for all the wiring like my old G6 had. 

Edit: On that note, I do have the WIS software for everything MB/Smart from 97'-21' on a VMware on my computer, if anyone needs a specific wiring diagram or something that they think might be on it, let me know.

Edited by Meekles
Addition
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So the smart has been running great for the past couple of weeks and I am loving the mileage.

I have and intermittent 3 bars of death that seems to happen when I steer right only. Never when I steer left. Could be coincidence, but about one every other day it will show 3 bars when coming to stop and steering to the right.

never happens while driving, always when coming to a stop.  Gonna do some harness trouble shooting this weekend.

Does any one have info on throttle pedal lag.

Sometimes if I’m coasting to a stop and accelerate before coming to a complete stop the gas pedal feels dead . Nothing happens, no response from the gas pedal. I have to come to a complete stop before I would get a response from the pedal and then all is fine other than that there are no other issues with the gas pedal in any other scenario.

not sure if it related to the 3 bars but they only ever happen simultaneously once.  There’s 2 symptoms happens far apart. Usually never both in the same day.

I put about 250km daily on the smart.

Has anyone come across this before.

 

 

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The car is a commie!  Seriously it does sound like a wire is grounding/shorting somewhere under the car, where the movement in response to turning is causing it.

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My beater gets that stupid dead pedal feeling sometimes when I come to go around a corner faster than maybe I would normally and I gear down and it coasts around the corner until the RPMs sort of catch up to where it wants to be, feels a bit like you miss-shifted into a too high a gear but didn't.  Have you checked your brake pedal wiring and connection to the booster..?  Also have you taken off the gas peddle and cleaned it up and I sprayed lube onto the rubbed areas if I recall correctly....not drowned it just  where it looked like it needed some. It was a dirty spot, full of road grime off your shoes etc etc.

 

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