450/451 build

[Evolution 7]

I bought a 450 06 CDI with no engine. The engine is for a 2010 451. I have the entire 451 drive train in parts, Injection nozzle A6600700387, Injection pump A6600700101, Vacuum tank A9012580003, Fuel distributor A6600700295, water pump housing A6602340039, water pump, Intake bridge A660900137, Vacuum pump A6602300365, Glow time control unit A4515450432, and the 450 transmission which does not have bolts to attach to the engine either . When buying them I got none of the bolts screws and fasteners. The Mercedes dealership has ghosted me on several occasions even though they can order most and know the size of the ones they cant. They cannot order from Canada and Canada won't sell to me either. The place I bought the parts can't help me either. Does anyone know the part numbers and amounts for those fasteners? Also a manual in English not German would be nice as well haha. After I get the fasteners I can build and drive the smart, it's titled registered and everything. A Canadian manual would be AMAZING to get my hands on. I can't even decipher the cylinder head torque order of spec in the German manual. Please and thank you for your help.
 

[Willys 747]

Hmmmm.....I'm not sure if you can even mate a 451 engine to a 450 transmission let alone all the accessories such as starter and all electronics, computer signaling wise etc. Even the actuator is different so will it mate to the clutch fork correctly?  It'll be interesting to see it if it can be done.   As for a manual......that would be easier to find that majical gliter unicorn I'm afraid buddy...lol.!!!!   I have the German manual and unless you speak german good luck translating it as Google translator does a terrible job of it. I was told the translator won't decifer technical language as it would conversational language...? True or not, it always changed the sentences around every time I went over it to translate it.  The best place imho is to get over to Evilution.co.uk and donate their smallest donation and then politely get asking questions to their owner Kane. He is very helpful if you ask very politely.  Just his pet peeve and I can relate so to speak. Always nice to see someone who asks politely with the please and thanks etc etc.....always easier to get info with honey than vinegar as they say.  And you are in a serious pickle without someone who has enough knowledge to tell you if it is even possible imho.  These cars are so electronically sensitive that I don't know if the 451 sensors even talk to the 450 computers etc etc.    Good luck and please keep us informed as to what you find out.  You could be making history with your desires.

[Evolution 7]

HA well you were right about just about everything. Especially the technical specs not translating. Actually I do live next to a German heart surgeon I could give him an ask haha. I did have to replace the clutch fork since it was worn through. I do believe they physically mate up. There is a change in transmission type from a 6 to a 5 speed or a 5 to a 6 speed. The computer might get me though. I just dont want to spend another $1500 to get the trans. The wiring harness is small and cheap as well as the computer so what is another couple hundred dollars. What does surprise me is they are/were sold in Canada why is getting a Canadian manual so difficult? I can say though it is amazing how far not being a dick will get you.

[Evolution 7]

To be honest I could buy a working Canadian CDI for the same cost as a 451 CDI trans.

 

[Willys 747]

On 9/2/2021 at 0:04 PM, Evolution said:

To be honest I could buy a working Canadian CDI for the same cost as a 451 CDI trans.

 

This is the most sensible thing you have suggested so far......lol....me being a dick...lol.

Seriously though...this is what i would be doing....or buying all the parts from a 450 and not mixing up different years and models trying to get them to talk to each other.  Can you import a parts car without much fuss??? That is what i would do, buy a running car and swap out all the necessary bits to get your car to work.  OR swap your good parts into it to make it whole, then maybe simply without knowing swap the paperwork....which obviously isn't the right thing to do and we all know this.....but...?....lol.  I'd check into getting a parts car over anything else.....especially if you have a trailer to tow it back on.
Buying parts to make it good will cost you a small fortune and unless you are basically restoring it as I am doing, it's seriously not worth it...imho.

 

[Evolution 7]

If I knew then, some 2-5 years ago, what I did now then I would had and been driving one for over a year now. I know how to get and do all the paperwork for them....Now. I have EVERY part of the powertrain. Except the fasteners. I might still get one right from Canadina since the borders are open again. I can import parts easy enough they just come from Germany. That adds a month or 3, the 16% VAT tax, and conversion rate at a loss.

[Willys 747]

That is how I rebuilt my engine, ordered every part that could wear and installed new. The only parts of the original engine are, block, head, cam, crank connecting rods.....everything else is brand new from Germany mw-smart.....but they also sell rebuilt engines if that is of an interest to you or not?  They have every part required to rebuild an engine or the whole car.....shipping was cheap and before COVID fast.  They are good guys to deal with BUT, they have been screwed by other Americans by someone making an order and paying for it on PayPal or similar then after it's shipped they cancel the payment and keep the order. So, now they demand payment up front, understandably. Once they see you are honest they will allow normal pay methods etc. They are also hard to get a human as they are so busy, so he said the only time I actually got a human. He was very good to speak with and was apologetic  for the way they do it now.  I have spent maybe $3,000 with them , but I have bought every moving wear item on our cars. Everything.!!!  So when finished it should be a brand new car, which should last me  many many years of driving a vehicle that gets me 80 mpgs!  What other vehicle can say that!  My brother just bought an electric Mustang and he has now figured out the cost to get long distances. The Smart is only a few dollars more expensive....and i do not need to worry about finding a fast charging station. Something that he is still learning.  To each their own, but at the moment fossil fuels are still king!
Getting back to your car, I'd forget about trying to miss-match 450 and 451 if you can and work on the 450 power train maybe try and sell the 451 bits and pieces that would be my plan...sorry to say.

[Evolution 7]

Hey same situation here, besides the mustang. Sadly unless I sell the parts for some redneck to install on a go cart or lawn mower or something there isn't really anything to sell it on. I mean for $500 I have the rest of a 451 other then the trans. That means computer, wiring, everything. at this point selling isn't really an option sadly. Maybe I just be a pain in the but at Mercedes and give the parts guy the list and sit in the lobby in my grubby work cloths and wait for him to be done lol. Maybe go to a non dealer Mercedes repair shop.

 

[Willys 747]

IF you haven't got yourself a STAR computer yet, spend the money and get one.  It will pay for it'self in a heartbeat with what you are trying to do.....just saying.....installing everything mechanically will be the first large step, but the real problem starts then....trying to get everything to talk to each other..imho.  Just a suggestion.

 

[Evolution 7]

I am not aware of what a STAR computer is. I keep finding business and what I guess is not what you mean.

[Nigel 287]

MB Star Diagnostic tool.  Just like the dealer uses.  I don’t know much about them myself but you can get clones at a reasonable price.  I’m sure someone will talk to you through private message and give you more information.  
 

Nigel

[Willys 747]

Buy this....a great deal....ask me how I now...lol

 

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/133739901157?hash=item1f2384f0e5:g:sUoAAOSwng1ghEDm

 

 I bought the cheap version as there was no laptops available when i wanted to buy this kit.  This is way better than making it yourself, imho.

The cost of this will be easily paid for by not going to the dealership 3 times or less, depending upon what needs to be solved.   imho.

 

[Evolution 7]

Ah ok, thanks all. Sorry for the delay life's been a bit upside down lately. Does anyone know the torque order and amount for the head bolts? That is the biggest hurdle at the moment and my me the only real hold up for a little bit.

[smart142 605]

Torque specs can be found here..... https://www.fq101.co.uk/data-a-reference/50-tightening-torques

scroll down

[Evolution 7]

Gold mine! Thanks! Is there a specific order or just criss cross up and down?

[Willys 747]

2 hours ago, Evolution said:

Gold mine! Thanks! Is there a specific order or just criss cross up and down?

If in doubt criss cross up and down as in most engines.....imho.  Also in stages.

May I suggest, going to each of the good sites and printing off pages of this sort of info  to make yourself a semi manual for future referance.  Yes I know not really what we are or should be doing but it has been known to happen that if we do not keep an up to date record or library it could be lost forever as some pages seem to go the way of the DO DO.....just saying.   Sorry if this goes against the site's policies but keeping important hard to find possibly impossible to find information is key to us being able to upkeep our vehicles.

[Evolution 7]

I will def be keeping track of this info as I go. You know I talked with Mercedes. Big Mercedes want my vehicle registration information before they will even check on the availability of certain parts. You know, just to make sure I have imported the vehicle legally....... 1. It isn't even a vehicle right now just a pile of parts. 2. I didn't even import it.

[Willys 747]

22 minutes ago, Evolution said:

I will def be keeping track of this info as I go. You know I talked with Mercedes. Big Mercedes want my vehicle registration information before they will even check on the availability of certain parts. You know, just to make sure I have imported the vehicle legally....... 1. It isn't even a vehicle right now just a pile of parts. 2. I didn't even import it.

They want the same up here in Canada, it's so from what they say to be able to give you the correct parts for your serial #'d vehicle.....They can't even open their parts  screen without it.  I highly doubt they can do shit to you by giving it to them.  Besides we can get you the part numbers other ways I'm sure.  I thought the same as you to start with, then said screw it and the rest is history!  There are many places to get parts from besides the dealerships.....if need be....so no worries.  The dealerships don't want to work on Smart Cars any way from what I hear and will well over price all repairs so you scrap it over getting them to repair it.  This is why IF you want to keep the Smart Cars it is advisable to get a STAR system so you really never have to go back to a dealership for repairs. Etc.

[Evolution 7]

I may or may not have obtained a Ebay 2021 Mercedes vehicle catalogue and given then a copy of a parts list from their own system. My local mechanic has also been helping me out. I can also give the list to them first when I am there today just for kicks. but I will be looking into all the stuff to be posted here. Btw why is a Canadian vehicle manual hard to get even in Canada?

[Willys 747]

What type of manual...? A shop manual or a simple purchase type manual? The one they give you when you buy the car which is useless...lol.  There is no shop manual worth having even the German one, ask me how i know...lol.

 

[Evolution 7]

The shop manual or repair manual that everyone seems to have in German but is impossible to get in English.

[Willys 747]

1 hour ago, Evolution said:

The shop manual or repair manual that everyone seems to have in German but is impossible to get in English.

Yep, it's junk!  I bought it and it doesn't translate very easily using google translate or similar but it does have a few good pictures other than that useless!   Don't waste your money!  The car is simply a grown up's jig saw puzzle, you must take it apart to learn how it works...lol. Then try and put it back together...but it is doable.  You must also get a STAR machine to program any and most all electrical issues.  That is worth a couple of trips to a dealership, then after that it's all free , so to speak.

 

[Evolution 7]

Honestly I have enough parts I have thought about just buying a regular smart and just swapping out all the gas for diesel stuff. I am putting a truck engine in a smart so I know how to tear one apart. Even the wiring harness isn't tough. The last guy even cut a hole in the frame behind the passenger seat for some reason. Luckily I can patch that with my welder but still.

[Willys 747]

Hole in the body behind the passenger seat is probably the fuel pump or alternator or air con pump...Thermostat?   Seems excessive but hey you do what you think is right I suppose.   A truck engine...?   IMHO, it's getting the computers to talk to each other to allow the car to operate as it's supposed to is what is challenging once you start the " well we don't need this wire any more" syndrome ...lol.   Something I'm bad for...lol.

I'd be very interested in pics of your project to see how other people attack their projects. It's always nice to see other fools besides myself attempting impossible tasks...lol  Thanks.  Keep going, we all want to see the end result.

 

[Evolution 7]

Yeah there were a couple things I found out after the fact.... I should have gone into this more aware in general but I have learned a lot that is for sure. Got the head bolts torqued down need some screws and I have put 80% of the engine together. It's already registered need a new instrument cluster I am not good with KPH.

I am most worried about the electronics on the big smart as well. I hope to slowly upgrade it to the fancy trim level of smart so the suburban electronics recognize heated seats, power windows, seats and similar features. It will be fun for sure. Plus seeing a smart on 38" tires will be interesting.