CDI SMART 450 cold start

[modex007 4]

[Willys 741]

55 minutes ago, modex007 said:

Damn... i think head removing now sounds most easy 😂😂

 

I tried tu turn engine slowly it stops didnt use force and turned back. 

 

 

In that case I'd be removing head as I too think angle of force by piston will JAM broken piece in wrong direction and cause far more damage than you want, imho.

Also gluing anything to the top of that piece will also stick to bore of hole, no...?  Or have the risk of it happening.  Keep it simple stupid as they say.....the more complicated you make this the worse I fear the end result may be?  imho.....it still sounds easier to remove head if you are working in a garage or shop so to speak and not outside. IF outside at this time of year ....Hmmmmm.....AUGH....!!!!!!!   I'd be taking engine out and bringing it inside house...lol.   Easier to argue with wife than freeze to death...lol.

Seriously.....think carefully about forcing anything in any way as per costs of resolving the resulting damages of doing so.......compared to the long job of taking it apart.

 

[Willys 741]

How good are your welding skills.....a bit like removing a broken stud....no......lol....just kidding.....lol

 

[Mjolinor 85]

2 minutes ago, Willys said:

How good are your welding skills.....a bit like removing a broken stud....no......lol....just kidding.....lol

 

 

A stick welder will often do this.

 

Unplug welder.

Position rod on top of drill and hold it tight.

Get someone to plug and unplug the welder.

Voila, rod is welded to drill bit.

[Willys 741]

9 minutes ago, Mjolinor said:

 

A stick welder will often do this.

 

Unplug welder.

Position rod on top of drill and hold it tight.

Get someone to plug and unplug the welder.

Voila, rod is welded to drill bit.

Yes but in such a tight important spot.....I'll go the long route this time...lol.   

Once you have the head off.....you could bore out the surrounding area where the glow plug gets plugged up etc....just a thought.....it may help next time?

[modex007 4]

Yes i have a garage, so will try in the evenings take time and slowly disasemble. Strange that i couldnt find any step by step guide online 

 

Found head torque with degrees, strange method 😂

 And as i understand i will need new head bolts? Cant reuse same?

[LooseLugNuts 555]

ive reused torque to yield bolts on many occasions....just check them against a flatedge with backlight for hourglassing..

 

stretched ones will be quite obvious ...replace those ...if any 

[LooseLugNuts 555]

i like that stick welder idea....

 

 

main thing to remember if youre going to try more extraction methods is that some damage to glow plug threads will be just fine....but you definitely dont want to do any damage to the sealing surface below the threads

[LooseLugNuts 555]

this thread reminds me of my highschool days when one day my father was changing someones valve seals the quick and dirty way without head removal on a 4 cyl toyota carolla...and he left the last one to show me his tricks (using air pressure and a modified spark plug air fitting to hold the valve in place while you remove the spring and old seal)

 

but he forgot that he turned off the air compressor and when he touched that valve stem it dropped the valve right into the bore (the piston was at bdc) TING!!!!

 

we worked for about 45 minutes with a flashlight shining down the valve guide and got a piece of wire hooked onto the stem thru the spark plug hole and i actually got that sucker back up in there without having to remove the head 

[modex007 4]

2 hours ago, LooseLugNuts said:

i like that stick welder idea....

 

 

main thing to remember if youre going to try more extraction methods is that some damage to glow plug threads will be just fine....but you definitely dont want to do any damage to the sealing surface below the threads

My firsr try was with welder, removed some flux from end, removed battery, added to the drill aaaaannnnd no spark! Maybe no ground.... but was too afraid to work with welder. But maybe one more try, when i will push the car into garage. Need to setlle down emotions 😂

[modex007 4]

Found this picture, as i understand drillbit or any thing you put in hole, touches engine block. Not the piston and not valves. Thats good. But there are only two ways try again stick welding if not, get the tools and start dissasmbling that mini traktor 😂 long ewenings in winter, not bad 😂

[Willys 741]

Do it the right way and take the head off.....worst case is you need to rebuild head(valves, rockers as they are prone to cracks, seals and gaskets) Mine had leaky intake seals that I wasn't aware of until I took it apart....along with warped cylinder bores, so bad it took 2X piston boring to get rid of it, the only pistons on the planet at that time were 3X so that is what is in my engine.....yes I did go overboard by a long shot making it basically a new engine again, but if you do take engine out you can at least inspect every other item of interest.   IMHO  if it's out, why not?  At best it's just a set of seals and gaskets....at worst you need to spend thousands or simply exchange with another used engine and hope for the best?  I have taken way way too long to finish my project....simply got side tracked onto other projects.....I also have other vehicles to use so no panic.  I also look at it as something to do other than bars or clubs, or other methods of wasting money....to each their own.....in the end it is your project to do with as you see fit.  Have fun and learn all you can from it. 
IF you take engine out, research all weaknesses of this engine and what could happen to it and plan a plan of attack to remedy them if you wish to.   There are a few that I have found....oil pump sprocket and chain, rockers, intake seals, worn lifters and rockers contact area, worn brake booster vacuum pump drive cogs, nozzles......like I said the list can go on and on. 

 

But what else do you have to do over the long cold winter months?  Good luck and start a rebuild thread if you do, we always appreciate these threads. Pics also are great....

[LooseLugNuts 555]

if it makes you feel better .....ive seen worse problems

 

my first smart car was super deal because the previous owner couldnt fix it...it came with most parts in boxes and the engine along with cradle etc was just all in loose because i asked them to slap it together enough for me to tow it home ...i had zero experience with smarts before that purchase and had a lot to learn

 

anyway long story short it was in tatters because the previous owner had broken off all three glow plugs

 

....and then drilled out each one ..............nicely off center...

 

...and then flushly broke off an easy out tool into one of them

 

 

I had to remove the head and spent quite a few hours carefully drilling what i could and then finishing off with a dremel type tool and very small diamond burrs

 

also like mentioned above I found the other problem of having an oil pump gear with no teeth on it ...and i remember swapping out some lifters that felt collapsed (thank you TOlsen for helping with those)

 

 

i would still try to get it out the easy way but if you have another vehicle to use and lots of time then i guess id also suggest going the whole nine yards with it 

 

 

[modex007 4]

Omg, that was a "GIFT" 🤣🤣🤣

 

 

 

 

 

"I would still try to get it out the easy way but if you have another vehicle to use and lots of time then i guess id also suggest going the whole nine yards with it "

 

For me left just stick welder try... and maybe compressed air.. no more ideas...

 

[tolsen 630]

I’m a bit curious. 

 

If you have started reaming the bores, then surely you have removed the glow plugs. 

 

Have you tested each of them and what was the result?

[modex007 4]

Yes, tested. All starts glowing from the top to bottom, in about 20-30seconds.

 

All perfect. But when i removed injector, its body are wet in diesel. And very black tip of injector. I think i will need to clean them, found amazing tool. Looks promissing and cheap!

Cleaner gadget

 

And maybe replace those cooper washers for better seal

[modex007 4]

Destroyed one glow plug, but to be safe that wont touch sides. Took out bastard.

[Willys 741]

No way.....you got it out...?...!!!!!    Excellent....I would have bet money you would not have been able to if it was jammed in the bore....but very glad you did!


OH...I see....this was a practice run.....smart idea...I like it....BUT, I would try and make sure the broken one isn't jammed in tight......either work it semi loose or push it a bit to un-seize it before trying to pull it back...?  Just a thought?   Also, have you considered what if any damage welding the top of the broken end may do to the bore it's stuck in? Threads or sides...?    Sorry just trying to think about every angle of this problem or future problem..?    Just spit balling problems that may arise...?

 

 

[modex007 4]

7 hours ago, Willys said:

No way.....you got it out...?...!!!!!    Excellent....I would have bet money you would not have been able to if it was jammed in the bore....but very glad you did!


OH...I see....this was a practice run.....smart idea...I like it....BUT, I would try and make sure the broken one isn't jammed in tight......either work it semi loose or push it a bit to un-seize it before trying to pull it back...?  Just a thought?   Also, have you considered what if any damage welding the top of the broken end may do to the bore it's stuck in? Threads or sides...?    Sorry just trying to think about every angle of this problem or future problem..?    Just spit balling problems that may arise...?

 

 

Thats why i uses old glow plug. Drilled smaller hole than stuck drillbit removed threads from that part. Dropped into the hole. In that case welder would touch just drill bit or that glow plug body. Few contacts, with welder ant some wigle and ir came out. Was so relieved :D. Made now proper tool like you showed, cleaned other holes. Now need to buy neew glow plug and assembly intake manifold and other parts back. but i think.i'm in the first place again where it wont start at cold temperatures. Maybe it's injectors.

 

P.s. no more sticks to the holes!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Willys 741]

IF you are thinking injectors, get a sonic cleaner big enough to submerge all but the very top electrical section, cook them for 20 min. then repeat until like new.....this is of course after disassembly of injectors. Only do one at a time so you have a good unit to copy if you forget what goes where. You can make a tool from a 10 mm allen key to remove the internal shaft as well. I just did one myself. It wasn't easy but it worked. It also get very complicated after removing that shaft....many parts that only go in one way or in the right order and can be easily mixed up. Spacers and ball bearing and it's holder so small it is hard to deal with it...beware....it can be done but it is more complicated than just doing the external parts.  Also look at your nozzles, do not try and wire brush them as you will round over the edges of the holes, causing the spay pattern to go in the wrong direction or not flow at all. ASK me how I learned this...!!!! AUGH!!!    Nozzles aren't that expensive and make a difference after you have cleaned the injector compared to not doing anything.   Again to each their own.  Also don't stick anything down these holes simply for the same reason as the wire brush etc.

IF you simply wish to try and blast carb cleaner through the injectors and hope it will do enough, why not...?   Better than nothing I guess...?  You will also be able to see the spray pattern and decide for yourself if it's worth going the next step.

Hope this helps.

 

[modex007 4]

"IF you simply wish to try and blast carb cleaner through the injectors and hope it will do enough, why not...?   Better than nothing I guess...?  You will also be able to see the spray pattern and decide for yourself if it's worth going the next step."

 

Thats exactly what i am thinking

 

Will see, thanks!

 

[modex007 4]

"do not try and wire brush them" nonono no more sticks to the holes 😂😂😂

[modex007 4]

Cleaned glowplug holes, disasembled, cleaned injectors just with carb cleaner, cleaned holes, changed copper washers. Today -4 started quickly! So far so good will see how it will hold thanks for the help!

[tolsen 630]

God news. 

The way you removed that drill bit impressed me. Very clever and well executed. 

[tolsen 630]

I recommend you soap test your copper injector seals to confirm they are sealing.  A very simple and sensitive test.  Use washing up liquid mixed with water and appy down injector bores whilst engine is running. No soap bubbles confirm the seals are sealing.