Wheel or ? Bearing Humming Noise

[Tut 11]

Gents: Have a humming not unlike dry bearing or winter tire noise coming from rear. Appears at about 40 K, increases, then decreases over 80K. Rear wheel bearings feel good on hoist, have fresh ones with HIs Majesty Tolsen’s grease nipple mod ready to install but now wondering if bearing noise is not coming from sealed transmission bearings. No play or noise, or rumble or chunky whatsoever at low speed turning on hoist, feel perfect but they might if they are just dry.

Can a Smexpert with experience on this and good ear have a listen? Car has 135 easy west coast K on it, no snow or salt or grit. Wet winters though. Changed tires, no difference.

Slight rumble from rear on hard left or right turn, its always done that. Same volume and frequency of hum whether in gear or neutral.

Thanks in advance, Boys. I’m really stuck on this one, don’t want to rent a listen from Stealership or do a bunch of unnecessary work. tt

Here are links to 2 videos, one coasting and one under load. Sorry for road noise, best I could do. Cheers

 

coasting                 https://youtu.be/brHnnL2fMkU

under load            https://youtu.be/hN4Kr8AbZcI 

 

[LooseLugNuts 557]

sounds like a wheel bearing to me

 

my general testing procedure is to do some heavy slaloms to identify which corner it is....generally (but not always) the bad one will sound worse when more pressure is on it...

 

for example a hard swerve left transfers more weight to the right and will make a bad right bearing howl louder ....but its not always 100% you still have listen or echo-locate as well because a left turn basically loads the outer half of the right and the inner half of left if that makes sense 

[LooseLugNuts 557]

and as a side note....at tire changeover time when a customer has a wheel bearing complaint the first thing i check is lug nut torque....youd be surprised how many times a wheel bearing complaint this time of year turns out to be just loose lug nuts 

[Willys 747]

I'll second the bearing......if you have them it's a 20 minute job a side, once you have done one to figure it out that is...lol. It's an easy fix.  imho.

 

[Tut 11]

2 hours ago, LooseLugNuts said:

sounds like a wheel bearing to me

 

my general testing procedure is to do some heavy slaloms to identify which corner it is....generally (but not always) the bad one will sound worse when more pressure is on it...

 

for example a hard swerve left transfers more weight to the right and will make a bad right bearing howl louder ....but its not always 100% you still have listen or echo-locate as well because a left turn basically loads the outer half of the right and the inner half of left if that makes sense 

2 hours ago, LooseLugNuts said:

and as a side note....at tire changeover time when a customer has a wheel bearing complaint the first thing i check is lug nut torque....youd be surprised how many times a wheel bearing complaint this time of year turns out to be just loose lug nuts 

 

Great advice, thx. Tried the swerving and rumble from both rears, but like I said they have always rumbled on turns since 80,000 K. I tried running it up to speed in the air but puter just shuts it off. You're bringing me back to my original thoughts. Rattled me when they felt and sounded so good when wheels spun on hoist by hand. Reading too much of Tolsen's transmission stories. haha. Fixes so easy to him. He's Superman.  

[Tut 11]

2 hours ago, Willys said:

I'll second the bearing......if you have them it's a 20 minute job a side, once you have done one to figure it out that is...lol. It's an easy fix.  imho.

 

Great Willys, thx. An educated ear like yours is just what this deal needs.

Rear end whirring is easier to figure out when not mixed in with all the other rear machinery possibilities in Smarties. Thankyou!

[LooseLugNuts 557]

i remember buying 2 rear bearings for my 450 ...but never installing them

 

it turned out the front right was the bad one...one day it got so bad i couldnt ignore it and when i changed that front right all the noise in the rear dissappeared 

[LooseLugNuts 557]

i bought the rears from germanparts.ca ....theyve been out of stock for quite a while now though (gave them away with the car when i sold it)

 

the fronts ive always been able to get fairly cheap from rock auto

[Tut 11]

11 hours ago, LooseLugNuts said:

i remember buying 2 rear bearings for my 450 ...but never installing them

 

it turned out the front right was the bad one...one day it got so bad i couldnt ignore it and when i changed that front right all the noise in the rear dissappeared 

Funny. Right after I lowered car and it left the shop yesterday that same thought crossed my mind. The whirring got louder in the movie, I thought, as the phone moved closer to the rear of the car which may mean absolutely nothing. Im checking the fronts before I do anything. Maybe a learning moment. I shall report results.

[Tut 11]

11 hours ago, LooseLugNuts said:

i bought the rears from germanparts.ca ....theyve been out of stock for quite a while now though (gave them away with the car when i sold it)

 

the fronts ive always been able to get fairly cheap from rock auto

Really good, keep this in mind. Yes the German is out of parts, says maybe February. Those guys are great.

[tolsen 630]

It will be much easier to identify which is the bad bearing once the noise becomes more unbearable. 
 

The problem is the noise seems to resonate through the car so may appear to come from anywhere. 
 

Regarding modifying your wheel bearings to allow injection of grease,, beware a grease gun in the wrong hands may push the seals loose. 
 

i inject grease whilst jacked up and wheel wheel spinning. The injected grease wipes dirt off seal area.  
 

I have not replaced a single wheel bearing since I did this mod about ten years ago. 
 

Before I typically had to replace a wheel bearing each year. 

[Tut 11]

22 hours ago, tolsen said:

It will be much easier to identify which is the bad bearing once the noise becomes more unbearable. 
 

The problem is the noise seems to resonate through the car so may appear to come from anywhere. 
 

Regarding modifying your wheel bearings to allow injection of grease,, beware a grease gun in the wrong hands may push the seals loose. 
 

i inject grease whilst jacked up and wheel wheel spinning. The injected grease wipes dirt off seal area.  
 

I have not replaced a single wheel bearing since I did this mod about ten years ago. 
 

Before I typically had to replace a wheel bearing each year. 

 

 

Spinning wheel, great advice, as usual.

 

New development: I thought rear for sure because humming much louder at rear of car, also because I checked the fronts, but apparently not closely enough. Master Tolsen right again! Put the stethoscope on fronts and just wee tinkling sound on driver side; if I really reef on the wheel I can get it to click tiniest movement. I think demon is revealed, the same one that howls louder in rear of car than front of cabin due to sound resonation, like you say, Mr. T.

 

Ordering couple new ones and do the dust cap mod. Will run it after drivers side in just so we know. Standby boys. thx. tt 

 

PS, yearly wheel bearings certainly unusual? Never heard of it....

[Tut 11]

On 11/24/2022 at 8:13 PM, LooseLugNuts said:

i remember buying 2 rear bearings for my 450 ...but never installing them

 

it turned out the front right was the bad one...one day it got so bad i couldnt ignore it and when i changed that front right all the noise in the rear dissappeared 

Mr. Loose L! Did you see last reply?

 

You were right, seems its the driver front. Sound bouncing around in cabin, sounds like rear. Thanks for the tip, I would not have looked as hard as I had to without your crumb trail. Thanks again. tt

[Willys 747]

Fingers crossed you solve this issue........but I'd change them all at this point, yep money be buggered....lol That is IF they haven't been changed recently.....one job less to worry about.  I also would be buying good quality bearings also.....if possible.  
Way back when I first bought this car I followed the grease nipple idea but never did it.....I prefer to have the grease directed into the centre of the bearing not just pushed in similar to trailer caps as the resulting damage to bearing seal is very easy to do. Just look at most trailers as they usually have had this happen to them.  I do like the centre caps you can buy that fit trailer axles and that idea was appealing for a short while but looks, well, crap.  I did entertain the idea of drilling the hub and bearing to get grease to the centre of the issue but .....in the end....too lazy and not easy to achomplish.  Far easier to repack  bearings if you feel necessary. All a To each their own  mentality imho....just keep a good watch on your bearings and you may not have an issue with them again.  I have only changed out the beaters bearings once, besides the first time trying to use good used bearings, failed miserably.  It's almost the same as an oil thread....lol.     we all know the answer but keep trying to better it one way or another....lol.

[tolsen 630]

I just googled and learned it was in 2010 when I added grease injection into my wheel bearings. 
 

Above post deals with the front bearing. There is another thread for rear bearings which are much more complicated wrt path to get grease injected. 
 

I have found you only need to inject grease with the grease gun until you feel resistance. At that point the bearing is fully packed of grease. 
 

Then just keep on driving and friction and heat will make grease expand and gently leak out and wipe seal area clean of dirt thereby increasing bearing life.

[Willys 747]

IMHO, seriously not worth the time or work involved to do this mod....again imho.....how many wheel bearings does one car go through in it's lifetime or while you are the owner of said vehicle. Not arguing here just stating a fact. I'm all over modifying vehicles for added whatever, but there is a realistic limit to what is "needed" and what is simply doing it for the fun of it...again imho.

Also the average Joe or Jane doesn't know when enough is enough when it comes down to grease amounts, pressures, torque settings amount of oil, etc etc etc....to the experienced folks whomever they are these are sensible, easy things to determine and are like second nature. bearing grease being sprayed onto the brakes to someone who doesn't realize it may be the difference of being able to stop or not being able to stop just in the nic of time..?    

Again, I'm the type of person who loves a good mod and usually it doesn't need to be that effective before I do it....but after looking deeply at the trying to get grease to where i thought it should go , that is IF it should be better than a brand new bearing, was it even worth the time ...etc....Again to each their own.  You can decide.....same goes for the plastic plate mod for the dust shields....yes great IF you can't find them or can't afford to buy new...but at the price they asked for new.....Hmmm....easy choice to make, again imho. I simply bought two brand new ones, primed and painted them...they'll be far better than new and last far longer. Far longer than my ownership I expect of the vehicle..? 

It all comes down to who wants to do these mods simply for the fun of doing them or the need of doing them.  I like doing them and enjoy the benefits of having done them. I have done more mods to vehicles than anyone should expect necessary, it's a way for me to pass time, imho better than smoking, drinking or movies etc, a way of entertainment.

Now if you "NEED" to do them as to try and save money that is a totally different kettle of fish, you do anything you can to keep the vehicle on the road that much longer.  OR is the thrill of keeping it running for as little as possible your fix so to speak? That also is worthy of doing them.....it's just a personal choice.

OR, you spend the money and buy new items and don't think about them ever again....just another way of dealing with same issues.

Which is correct in your head may not be correct in someone else's head.

[tolsen 630]

Thanks for the reply Willy but I only read part of it as you always post far too long posts. 

 

In Scandinavia we have a saying “walking around the porridge”.

 

That is someone taking forever to get to the point. 

 

I fully agree few nowadays know how to use a grease gun and that a grease gun can cause damage if operated by idiots. 

 

Here is a good example of that:

 

I was once called in to have a look at a 3 phase shale shaker motor that struggled to start rotating when cold. 

 

Found the machine had been fitted with a label stating “Grease bearings daily”.

 

I opened out the motor and removed half a builder’s bucket of grease from its internals. 

 

After that motor started each time even on the coldest mornings. 

 

Back to our  Smart 450 wheel bearings. 

 

The problem is wheel bearing seals are rather poor and reason for their failure. 

 

Having confirmed I modified my four wheel bearings for grease injection 12 years ago and since then have not had a single bearing failure, IMHO that is sufficient proof the mod is worth while. 

 

[Willys 747]

Idiots or simply inexperienced people..?

Short enough for you?

[MikeT 744]

In driving my 450 cdis a total of 410,000 km over 18 years, a total of two wheel bearings have required replacement, and that's with wide wheels and tires and the occasional balls out track day. So a car that eats a bearing a year is either extremely bad luck or something else.

[Mjolinor 91]

8 hours ago, Willys said:

IMHO, seriously not worth the time or work involved to do this mod....again imho.....how many wheel bearings does one car go through in it's lifetime or while you are the owner of said vehicle. Not arguing here just stating a fact. I'm all over modifying vehicles for added whatever, but there is a realistic limit to what is "needed" and what is simply doing it for the fun of it...again imho.
 

 

Big difference between "stating an opinion" as you were and "stating a fact".

 

The only reason for not putting grease nipples on bearings and joints is in order to make more money. If you are happy continuing to pay the manufacturer for as long as you own the car then that is your choice but if you prefer not to spend the money but spend the time instead then that is also your choice. Both valid views and neither way is better than the other as a matter of fact.

 

No mods are needed on the car, the car is complete and functional as it left the factory. Any changes you make are your choice. No one is qualified to say that some are worth it and some are not.

 

People on this forum do ludicrous things to their car in my opinion but that is their choice and commenting on their choice with my opinion serves no purpose but to antagonise and create friction so I don't bother.

 

 

 

[Tut 11]

On 11/27/2022 at 1:06 PM, Willys said:

Fingers crossed you solve this issue........but I'd change them all at this point, yep money be buggered....lol That is IF they haven't been changed recently.....one job less to worry about.  I also would be buying good quality bearings also.....if possible.  
Way back when I first bought this car I followed the grease nipple idea but never did it.....I prefer to have the grease directed into the centre of the bearing not just pushed in similar to trailer caps as the resulting damage to bearing seal is very easy to do. Just look at most trailers as they usually have had this happen to them.  I do like the centre caps you can buy that fit trailer axles and that idea was appealing for a short while but looks, well, crap.  I did entertain the idea of drilling the hub and bearing to get grease to the centre of the issue but .....in the end....too lazy and not easy to achomplish.  Far easier to repack  bearings if you feel necessary. All a To each their own  mentality imho....just keep a good watch on your bearings and you may not have an issue with them again.  I have only changed out the beaters bearings once, besides the first time trying to use good used bearings, failed miserably.  It's almost the same as an oil thread....lol.     we all know the answer but keep trying to better it one way or another....lol.

 

Yes, they do not make these bearings easy to service. Tolsen's fix is ideal but takes bit of work. I think worth it. All these machines we buy have built-in design deficiencies. If  we can get ahead of the breakage by re-engineering weak links, well, life may flow smoother. When they break, feels like ambush.

 

[Willys 747]

Manufacturers simply remove items like grease nipples to save 10 cents on each vehicle which over years of production adds up to something worthwhile. The new designed bearings in today's vehicles are nothing like old school bearings that needed grease nipples to last more than a week. imho....and yes imho....you may/can disagree if you wish, we all have an opinion just like arse holes.  As the saying goes.   I am guilty of doing many many useless mods just for the sake of doing them also, I just choose this time to not do it after looking at it and thinking a bit on it.
I think in the life span of these vehicles a few wheel bearings isn't that bad, and you do not buy them from the guys who made the vehicle so they won't be getting the money from not using grease nipples will they?
I'm not arguing the point just saying is all.   To each their own....


I have much bigger fish to fry now I'm told, the wife just informed me she has FRIG'in COVID!!!!!!!    I must be one of the last remaining few who haven't had it yet, and I wish to keep it that way!   FFS...!
Where's the salt water to gargle with....it has worked so far along with 3 jabs....not the recommended amount as the wife has had 5!  Lot of good that mod did her ....eh....!   FFS.

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Willys

[tolsen 630]

On 28/11/2022 at 6:19 AM, MikeT said:

In driving my 450 cdis a total of 410,000 km over 18 years, a total of two wheel bearings have required replacement, and that's with wide wheels and tires and the occasional balls out track day. So a car that eats a bearing a year is either extremely bad luck or something else.

The something else is water, slush, grit, salt and molasses. 

They add molasses to the salt and grit to make the mix stick better to the road surface but the mix also sticks to everything under cars including wheel bearing seals where the mix forms a corrosive and sticky paste which eats away seals and mating area on bearings. 
 

All makes of cars suffer short wheel bearing life here In Aberdeenshire.  If you want your bearings to last, just don’t drive it on wintry days. 

[Mjolinor 91]

6 hours ago, tolsen said:

The something else is water, slush, grit, salt and molasses. 

They add molasses to the salt and grit to make the mix stick better to the road surface but the mix also sticks to everything under cars including wheel bearing seals where the mix forms a corrosive and sticky paste which eats away seals and mating area on bearings. 
 

All makes of cars suffer short wheel bearing life here In Aberdeenshire.  If you want your bearings to last, just don’t drive it on wintry days. 

 

Or don't live in Scotland.

[Willys 747]

1 hour ago, Mjolinor said:

 

Or don't live in Scotland.

LMFAO.......!#!!!!

I wonder if Canada has snow and what they pour liberally onto the roads that eat vehicles at an alarming rate....Hmmm...?   Ontario, one of the worst places for it if not the worst!
I personally can't see Scotland being worse than here.....but hey I don't live there so can't say for sure.