18 posts in this topic

I have a Smart 450 2007 with 20000k on the clock, I have had it stored for a couple of years and went to it a couple of weeks ago, connected the battery and it started first time. I noticed it was a bit smokey so I purchased the fuel treatment and all was good until now, It has now lost power and its creating smoke even at slow revs, I have removed and cleaned the EGR valve and its now sparkling once reassembled it still smokes... any thoughts would be useful.. thanks in advance

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Look up leak back tests for your injectors. There are a few good youtube videos on this subject using water bottles and clear hose from each injector and running the engine for a few minutes and seeing how much each injector is sending back to the fuel tank. (leaking so to speak)  You may need to get a sonic cleaner and soak your injectors in it for a while to get the built up gum out of the nozzles and body. IF you take out your injectors do not use anything like a wire brush or wheel to clean the nozzles as you will deform the holes and the spray won't come out correctly or close them for good. It's very easy to ruin your nozzles. With only 20,000 on the car they should be good but maybe just dirty needing a sonic cleaning. I have a 6 litre sized cleaner and it's just big enough. Check Amazon for them or other forums etc. You want to be able to submerge the entire injector up to the top black cap, but leave it up out of the cleaner.
Also you will need to buy new injector seals or copper rings and they must be the correct thickness or the nozzle won't be located at the correct depth resulting in the spray going to the wrong area and not mixing correctly causing another issue.

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Hi Willys....

Sorry got the mileage a little wrong  it should read   200,000 and I have tried to remove the injectors but they are really stuck and I cannot move them any advice would be great , and thankyou for the post back.

 

Neil

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For stuck injectors you need to get a slide hammer and then make up a forked fitting that attaches to the slide hammer so when you operate the slide it hammers the injectors straight upwards. I had to make one to get some of my injectors out that had siezed in place by the black carbon that leaks around your injector seals.  IF you know of a welder or can weld yourself making this forked claw fitting isn't that difficult. The claw part must be hardened or it will simply deform from the pounding. It's basically the same shape as the clamps that hold the injectors in place now, except you add a threaded hole into it so that can fit onto your slide hammer.

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Thanks for all the advice, I have had a local blacksmith make me a slide hammer one with a hardened fork and one with a screw thread that screws on to the top thread of the injector I soaked the joint in carb cleaner overnight but they still will not budge, the blacksmith even had a go as I said it had not worked but to no avail.   So next week I will take it to the garage and see if they have any better ideas or maybe a bigger hammer than I have...    I will keep you posted with the outcome..   thanks again for the help...

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I would not take it to anyone. They will break the injectors.

Persevere, soak it pull it, bash it about a bit then soak it again and so on. It may take a week but no one will put the effort you need to put in to achieve success. They will try, break it, charge you for the privilege then try to charge you a fortune for fixing it.

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and before oyu put them back put a pile of copper grease all over the bit that sits inside. (not the nozzle end)

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I agree 1000% with the above statement.....do it yourself for as long as it takes. You will take far more care than any shop will as they get paid to find the end solution whether or not it's a positive one or not!   IF you have a slide hammer with some weight to it, maybe 5 lbs then you have what I use and yes it took a bit for one of mine to finally break loose.  Do as suggested above, if it runs warm it up well, soak it and beat it carefully with the slide hammer and sooner or later it should come loose. The reason it is glued in so tight is that the seals for the injectors were leaking. This causes carbon to slide past the seal and build up what some call the black death for these cars and also sprinter vans. Seems sprinters are prone to this issue when you start researching sprinter vans to buy.  They use the same engine design as we do but just bigger. Every issue is the same problem wise I have found.

Sorry back on topic.....just make sure you are pulling straight up and not over to one side or the other.   Keep at it, they will come out .....patience isn't my strong suit either...lol.

White lithium grease or some sort of anti seize grease all on the shaft is what is needed and also stuff a small rag into the hole to stop any dirt falling into the combustion chamber when you are cleaning out any of the black carbon on the walls of the hole etc. Also you can get a reamer specifically designed to ream the seat surface off amazon at a good price. I bought one and it worked well. It comes with a few different reamers with different angles so you must use the correct reamer for our cars. There is a thread somewhere where we discussed this here somewhere and I think I mentioned which angle is required. My memory is like a siv....plenty of holes for useful information to fall through now a days...yes I'm old!
Also buy new seals or anneal the old ones if they aren't too damaged but better to buy new if you can. I'm sure i have already mentioned this before...lol

Good luck.

Edited by Willys

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OH, what colour is the smoke? Black, blue white..? Does it make your eyes burn? Is it a sweet smell..? Or does it smell like oil?  Check your oil for other fluids. Check your coolant for oil or foam?

I have been fighting white smoke for years and only just found out it was because of low oil pressure not filling the lifters enough so the valves never opened fully meaning the fuel/air mixture was never correct. It had very thick white smoke that burnt your eyes and it was always there, low revs to high revs. Almost the same as a blown head gasket but the smoke burned your eyes meaning too much fuel. Not a sickly sweet smell of antifreeze.

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Its as black as it can be its an embarrassing cloud when the engine is under strain..  when it gives up going up a hill I put it in manual 1st and rev up to see if I can get up the hill it leaves a perfect spot of black on the road which is good for me as I can see if anything I do improves it and I can get past the mark.  I will have another go before taking it in to the garage...  thanks for the comments

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I use a penetrating oil that an old mechanic recommended - 50% acetone 50% ATF.

I then place a 13mm long socket over the fuel inlet of the injector and then work it side to side.

When it moves a little add more penetrating oil. Keep working it side to side.

This method has never failed me.

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Automatic transmission fluid. The red oil you put in auto gearboxes.

 

50% ATF and 50% acetone is the best penetrating oil you can use.

 

You will struggle with the shelf life where you live, acetone does not store well and will evaporate from sealed plastic bottles so needs to be kept in glass.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

best penetrating oil ive used is called deep creep...i think its made by the seafoam people

Edited by LooseLugNuts

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id be suspicious of the turbo based on the initial post where you say it has low power ...along with black smoke

 

 

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Morning All,   thankyou for all the advice and help,  I did not get them to move at all so I gave up and took it to my local garage and my engineer I use I asked how he loosened stubborn injectors.  He went to his bench, and after a search in the mountain of spanners and hammers and wrenches he came up with strange looking tool that he explained he had made..  I asked if he could show me how it worked and he loosened one of the clamps and pop out it came two out of three worked the last one (Center) did not budge, He loosened the clamp 1/2 a turn and started the car and watched the bottom of the injector when it leaked , switched off the engine the clamp loosened and all three were loose.  I now have them loose and he charged me 15 euros for the help, I now can clean them and get going again..   So again thankyou all for your help and advice...  Neil

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That is exactly what I would have done. Loosen them then run the engine. I did not suggest it because it can do a lot of damage if you are not careful but it seems he knew what he was doing so problem solved. :)

 

Do not forget to absolutely cover them in copper grease and new washers before you replace them.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I ran my car with no clamps at all on the injectors in a hail marry type thing hoping they would shoot out or at least leak, nothing!!!!  No I didn't go any where nor stood over it to peek....lol.    My slide hammer was the only way and I did break the first attempt of making the claw that attached to the injector.   Doesn't matter in the end as long as you got them out and kept your second arm and leg.....so to speak.

Now, sonic clean the daylights out of them, keeping the electronics out of the solution unless you remove it from the injector. I would buy new nozzles so would clean the body of the injectors without nozzles so the solution get  deeper into the injectors. 

Edited by Willys

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