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Glow plugs

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1- Can anyone tell me where are the glow plugs on this little beast ? I looked at the usual place on the cylinder head and didn't find it. No plugs, no wires, nothing...2- What type of glow plugs ? On my VW and Toyota, they were the usual screwed plugs heating the combustion chamber. On My Massey-fergusson and Ferrari, it was a kind of heating element into the intake manifold.3- Did anyone had to replace the glow plugs ? I beleive the life span could vary considerably depending on the way we start the engine, I mean some people say they heat them 2 times or even four times before starting the engine in very cold conditions and without connecting the engine heater.

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1 = ConnectorR9 = Glow Plugs (Back side of engine)Cheers,Cameron

post-375-1156829796.jpg

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Are you saying the glow plugs are somewhere out of sight and that the couple of red wires running alongside the injectors aren't related to the glow plugs? What are the red wires for then? I always assumed the glow plugs are attached to the little blocks of plastic on top of the injectors where the wires come out of!

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The glow plugs appear to be on the back of the head from the injectors. The red wires are probably part of the CDI system.I will look the next time I check the oil.Cheers,Cameron

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I didn't thank you for the picture Speedie, so I do now thank you !I didn't find the glow plugs at the second look .... beleive they are out of the way... I will clean my engine full of dust later and have a better look ... with the help of the pictures. At least I know they are of the « plug » type.

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How easy (or hard) is it to change the glow plugs? any special tools required? My smartie just won't start anymore, I had problems in the spring when it was not plugged and if it drops to 5 degrees C it just wouldn't start unless I cycled a few times. Last week in -16C it started ok with the block heater plugged in and cycled twice but now in -5C it won't start at all, plugged in and cycled twice.How much are they and approximately what would the dealer charge to change them?I don't know if I'm ready to scrape my knuckles and break things in the cold to change them.

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Not hard if you have patience :rolleyes:

a 10mm deep socket and a 3/8'' drive torque wrench

Check out this excellent thread..click here.

Clean out the area and use lots of penetrating oil. After loosening the glow plugs it seems like they could be removed, that's when I add more penetrating oil and keep working on them before trying to pull them straight up.

The cost at the dealer is around $45 each and they will probably charge straight time, $100-150

For someone who is able to replace an intercooler, this would be a breeze.

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Thanks smart142 for your help and that link to the other thread. I will venture off to CT and get some of that penetrating oil, then get busy on checking the resistance of the plugs.In this weather I like to know what I'm getting myself into beforehand to be prepared for for battle since I will be working outdoors, that intercooler job was in the summer and I gave myself a week to do it in comfort.What really scares me about this job is the removal of steel parts from aluminum, never easy when they were installed dry, that and the effect of the cold on whatever plastic parts have to be moved out of the way.Thanks again :thumbsup_still:

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Do you have a CEL on and a 380 code showing?I changed a glow plug last week and didn't remove the plastic tray. Also found it easier to remove the electrical plugs this time.Good luck!

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No CEL or code. I went out and pulled the connectors off, the plugs all checked good. On my analog meter they read nearly zero ohms. I had power at the plugs when it cycled. I am guessing it might be a fuel problem or a worn engine, most probably the latter. I can't believe I got the same reading on all 3 and no go. I noticed before that while starting it would misfire on one cylinder at times and run a bit rough for a few seconds and that was in warmer weather. The last trip I did was last thursday and it was hard to start, had to cycle 3 times and it was plugged in for 3 hours, that was during -16C temps. Yesterday it was plugged for over 2 hours in -5C and it only sputtered a bit, even with more than one cycle. That last trip I did it was very cold out and I ran an hour on the highway, the power was a bit low and I thought maybe it was because of the cold air. On the way home it took more pedal than usual to keep it at the speed limit. My scanguage read well over 6L/100km at 95kmh where it usually takes 5 or less. I just tried it before coming in, not plugged in and the glow plugs cycled for a very long time yet no start, not even close to catching. The battery might be a bit low now from all these unsuccessful starts.

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No CEL or code. On the way home it took more pedal than usual to keep it at the speed limit. My scanguage read well over 6L/100km at 95kmh where it usually takes 5 or less. I just tried it before coming in, not plugged in and the glow plugs cycled for a very long time yet no start, not even close to catching. The battery might be a bit low now from all these unsuccessful starts.

Since you have a scanguage, set one of the display to coolant temp. I find with my car, in the cold weather the temp only reaches about 72 degrees, and my FE sucks. Check it again on a warmer day, if the engine temp gets closer to 80, and compare FE.For the starting, if you have access to booster cables and another battery, try boosting it; if it starts easily, it may just be that the battery in it is getting a bit old.MG

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I will try that battery boosting.The temperature was low, I didn't take note of the scanguage coolant temperature but on my speedo cluster the temp was between 40 and 80. I'm sure also that the gearbox oil was cold and didn't help much either for FE.I also suspect that the block heater may have burnt out, going to check on that now.edit:Just checked the block heater, the motor is stone cold and I feel no warmth near the unit at all, shouldn't it be at least slightly warm where the unit attaches?

Edited by smartbomber

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I wonder if the glow plugs are all coked up if that would make a difference, the EGR was a mess and everything downstream should also be affected?

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Just checked the block heater, the motor is stone cold and I feel no warmth near the unit at all, shouldn't it be at least slightly warm where the unit attaches?.....................................If the block heater works, it gets warm in just a few minutes, and hot enough to burn your hand if you leave it on

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Make sure the cord is actually plugged into the block heater. It can hang down a bit and get snagged. Somewhere there is a picture of a cord that had dragged on the road for uncounted km's.MG

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This morning using an oil pan heater the water temperature showing on the scan gauge was 8c and Gina started first ty.A non functioning block heater makes a huge difference. If you have ramps it is easy to check the connection and the function.A weak battery will also contribute to your problem.At least you don't have to replace those glow plugs!!

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Make sure the cord is actually plugged into the block heater. It can hang down a bit and get snagged. Somewhere there is a picture of a cord that had dragged on the road for uncounted km's.MG

Do you mean the wiring under the car or the 6 foot wire in the front? I drove home from work twice with that wire hanging out and managed to repair it, also removed the threaded lock to make it quick release in case it happened again! I feel like an idiot forgetting that wire there, it's like walking out of the men's room at a restaurant with TP hanging out your drawers! :blush02: I do also have the cabin heater plugged in so there is power to that point. If you mean between the front of the car to the block heater, I did check that but it appeared to be intact.

This morning using an oil pan heater the water temperature showing on the scan gauge was 8c and Gina started first ty.A non functioning block heater makes a huge difference. If you have ramps it is easy to check the connection and the function.A weak battery will also contribute to your problem.At least you don't have to replace those glow plugs!!

Really? what was the temperature outdoors? Here it was -10C and yesterday it was -5C, if the temperature of the coolant got up to 8C in the motor I would be happy, I will get one of those because I am not ready to install a new factory block heater at the moment. Where did you get it, what type?I somehow don't suspect the battery but will have a try with that. This car has trouble starting at 6C and lower without having to cycle the plugs twice, any colder would take 3 cycles. Could it be fuel related, dirty injectors? I somehow feel it's probably something worse because the glow plugs would be just too easy.Thanks everyone for your input because this really has me stumped!

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Perhaps, if you havn't been using your car for quite a while, your fuel tank may still have 'summer diesel' in it. This diesel fuel will give hard starting,and other problems too, in cold temperatures.

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Perhaps, if you havn't been using your car for quite a while, your fuel tank may still have 'summer diesel' in it. This diesel fuel will give hard starting,and other problems too, in cold temperatures.

I just filled it up from 5L last thursday but that was in New York state at a busy station that sells a good daily quota of diesel, I did have to wait in line to get to the pump. I heard something about their diesel isn't the same although it was ultra low sulphur diesel. This condition has been going on for a while, in the summer it wasn't apparent because of the warmer weather but on cool mornings I did have trouble starting at times, something the glow plugs should have taken care of.

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Cord connects at the back by the heater - has a nasty habit of coming loose and dropping down so that it drags the end off. Connector is the round thing - ideally the dealer would have tie wrapped it to the sway bar to prevent it dropping - I put a piece of shrink tubing over the connector (and a dab of grease on the connections) - mine is going no where!post-375-1261549248_thumb.jpgCheers,Cameron

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Thanks Cameron, I will check that connection in the morning. I just gave a quick visual of that end of the wire when I was checking for warmth coming from the heater. The unit is not snug in place and rattles, I'm hoping that it didn't burn out this time from being loose. I just had it out in the summer when I was under there changing the intercooler and noticed that the heater bracket had deformed from heat. I took it off and bent it back a bit for snug fit, I suppose the metal has fatigued.

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I think your missing my point. If you filled up in New York, they probably are using 'summer' diesel'.This type of diesel does not have additives like 'winter diesel'.Winter diesel has stuff in it to make the engine run properly in very cold temperatures,like we are now having in parts of Canada now. If 'summer diesel' is used in very cold weather, it will 'gell-up',causing stalling,rough running,etc.It contains/forms wax which your engine doesn't like in cold weather. Most of the US does not have/sell the 'low sulfer' diesel our diesel smart cars require.This may also cause you some problems.

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Last time I checked Northern New York state wasn't in the tropics - just across the lake from Ont. - they probably are on winter grade fuel now. Cheers,Cameron

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Oooooooof! I took a look over the holidays at where the glow plugs are at; they look impossible to get out!Not looking forward to tackling this one.-Iain

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