Ball Joints, etc.

[Eldor 0]

I love my Smart, but hate my dealer. They may be fine for Mercedes service, but when it comes to Smarts, my experience shows they’re simply incompetent. (My dealer is the one on Decarie in Montreal.)

Latest issue was when I brought my car in for the first “B” service at 17,000 km with NO problems with the car. They said the car would be ready in 3 hours, and just before that time was up, I got a call from the “advisor” saying that the car needed new ball joints. “New ball joints?” I asked, “The car’s only got 17,000 km on it and is still new!”

“Don’t you know what the roads are like in Montreal? But don’t worry, it’s a warranty repair” was the reply.

Well I DO know what the roads are like here, and my other car has 120,000 km on it still with the original ball joints! And just about all my driving is coming into town on the TransCanada – highway driving, not bumpy country roads or pot-holed city streets.

Ok, so I told them to go ahead. Near the end of the day the car was ready and I picked it up just before their service dept closed for the weekend. Driving the 4 km back to my office in bumper-to-bumper traffic I thought there was a funny noise but since I was going so slowly, I wasn’t 100% sure. But when I tried to drive home after work, there was a grinding noise, like something rubbing or a bad wheel bearing. The noise got louder when I went faster and continued even if I took my foot off the gas and coasted. I didn’t know what was wrong but I was afraid to drive the car. I made it home (slowly!) and parked it in my garage and used my other car for the next few days. This was the Labour Day weekend, so the dealer was closed on Monday.

I called on Tuesday and got another appointment for Thursday. They insisted that I go for a drive with their technician even though I told them they’d hear the noise immediately (they made me wait 20 minutes for the technician). So we get in the car and start driving and he immediately hears the noise and suggests it might be a bad wheel bearing. And we’d only gone half a block!

Anyway, I left the car and the dealer called me back a couple of hours later to say that it was indeed a bad bearing and that they’d ordered parts but the car wouldn’t be ready until the next day. SIGH

The next day it was ready and when I picked it up I asked if they’d changed both of the front bearings and they said no, that they’d changed only one. (Heck, if the ball joints had to be replaced at such a low mileage and then also a wheel bearing, why wouldn’t they change both bearings at the same time? Perhaps because they’d make more money by changing the other one later?)

So folks, how is it possible that a Smart with only 17,000 km needed new ball joints? How is it possible that by changing them, the dealer damaged a wheel bearing? If it’s “normal” for Smart ball joints to wear out at 17,000 km, then keeping the car well-maintained is going to be VERY costly!

(In winter time when I went for my first “A” service, they told me they’d found something wrong with the air conditioning but that they had to order parts and would let me know when they arrived. The a/c was working just fine on the last warm fall day that I’d used it. The part came in a couple of weeks later and another service was scheduled. They changed the part and I thought everything would be fine. Well, the first warm day I found I had no a/c at all and that it was blowing warm air! Another service. And then another, and another. Yes, all for the same thing! Once they even called me to say the car was ready but before I left to pick it up they called back to say that there was still a problem and that they’d ordered something else and the car wouldn’t yet be ready. It was like some kind of comedy routine, which wasn’t really funny at all..)

(The dealer also replaced the turbo on my car and that too took several visits and many many lost days for me to get fixed.)

Anyway, almost every time I’ve gone for service for something they’ve found something else and had to keep the car while they ordered parts. And the car would be lost to me for several days. And then when I got the car back almost every time they’d damaged something else or not fixed it right, requiring yet another service. I’ve owned new cars for over 30 years now and I can honestly say that I have NEVER experienced as poor service from any other dealer at any time. And now I’ve had it with this dealer… I will never return to them, nor would I ever buy any vehicle from them in the future. And it’s quite possible that I might have bought a Mercedes from them if they’d treated me better. (My other car is a Lexus, by the way.)

In spite of all this, I really do love my Smart, but really do hate the dealer! I just wish I’d have bought it from another dealer.

[Evilution 0]

When's that coming out in paperback

[ValgardForkbeard 2]

Sorry to hear of all your problems. Maybe the Ottawa people can refer you to one of the dealers there; the old Highway 17 used to be a fun drive, and its only an hour or so between Montreal and Ottawa.MG

[DangerDan 9]

Eldor, I too had both my lower ball-joints replaced during my last A-service (warranty covered as well, thankfully). If memory serves, this was back in March or April, and also at Silver Star. While I've found their service to be passable at best, they did manage to fix the ball-joints the same day.In my case, I'd felt a slight looseness in the suspension for the 500 km before that A-service and had them look into it while tires were being swapped and such. Needless to say, I was pretty surprised to find out that they'd failed after such a short time (28000 km or so). I've driven plenty of cars on our pathetic, cratered, Montreal roads, but never had to change a ball joint after such a short time. I hope this doesn't continue, or I'll seriously have to consider a beefier vehicle if I want to keep driving around this town.At least the road crews re-paved that stretch of Sherbrooke in front of your store. Now the money I save replacing dental fillings can be put towards future suspension work... ;)What about getting service done at West-Island MB on St John's? That's a little closer to your place, isn't it? I've been there a few times for parts and things and they seemed pretty competent.

[MikeT 744]

Ball joints are a known fortwo weak spot.....having said that, my other car's ball joints (on the tie rods) lasted 275,000 km.

[Eldor 0]

Ball joints are a known fortwo weak spot.....having said that, my other car's ball joints (on the tie rods) lasted 275,000 km.

Okay, but after only 17,000 km??? And as I said, I do very little driving along city streets - it's mostly highway (and my office is right by a highway exit). DangerDan reports having his changed at 28,000 km, so heck, even if 30,000 would be considered "normal" for a Smart, that's still pretty lousy (not to mention expensive!).

[Eldor 0]

Eldor, I too had both my lower ball-joints replaced during my last A-service

Gee Dan, and how about the ball joints on your Smart? In any case, your experience is disappointing. I believe you do a lot more in-city driving than I do and I'd suspect it would mean over worse (more pot-holed) roads. Most of my driving is in on the TransCanada. So if your ball joints had to be replaced at 28,000 and mine at 17,000 (after driving on smoother roads) something's really wrong. Let's just say we both were unlucky and that the should last at least 40,000 km on the Smart. Wouldn't that also be far too short a lifespan? I've never heard of a car needing new ball joints after such a shot distance.I will be going to the dealer on St John's in the future, but that'll make it harder for me as getting either back to my home on Ile Bizard (to pick up my other car) or to work will be much more difficult. But I'm going to do it anyway because I've been so unsatisfied with Silver Star's service. As I said, the worst I've ever experienced in over 30 years of owning new cars.Funny nobody commented on the wheel bearing issue. Anyone have an idea if the dealer could have damaged the bearing while replacing it? Or if it wore out just the same as the ball joint did? There was no noise (or anything for me to complain about) before I went in for that "routine" service. And if they changed one bearing, wouldn't it have made sense to change the other at the same time? Don't bearings wear evenly? I mean it's not like the right wheel would have less mileage than the left, right?Best regards...

[ValgardForkbeard 2]

The way your wheel bearing failed, it sounds more like abuse than wear; maybe the mechanic damaged the seal, or the bearing got contaminated during the service. As for even wear on both wheels, not really. You may hit more potholes with one wheel than the other. The road could be in different condition from one side of the lane to the other. As well, most people will turn right and left corners differently. You will tend to turn in one direction at higher speeds or sharper than in the other direction. Something to do with dominate eye, right/left handed-ness and strength of your arms.MG

[MikeT 744]

The wheel bearing issue cannot be related to the ball joint repair....the bearing would not have been opened during a BJ service.FWIW I would not expect to have to change mine until >100,000 km; I'm at 50K now and I will ask TPM to check them just before warranty is up.

[Eldor 0]

The way your wheel bearing failed, it sounds more like abuse than wear; maybe the mechanic damaged the seal, or the bearing got contaminated during the service. As for even wear on both wheels, not really. You may hit more potholes with one wheel than the other. The road could be in different condition from one side of the lane to the other. As well, most people will turn right and left corners differently. You will tend to turn in one direction at higher speeds or sharper than in the other direction. Something to do with dominate eye, right/left handed-ness and strength of your arms.MG

I didn't realize that left and right sides might not wear the same way. Thanks for pointing that out.As far as "abuse" goes, well, I certainly haven't abused the car and everything was fine (no noise and no complaints) immediately BEFORE the regular service but noisy immediately AFTER. Gee, to me it sounds like another example of shoddy service from this dealer.

[Eldor 0]

...would not have been opened during a BJ service.

(Trying hard to keep a straight face here...) At such low mileage (17,000 km) with no noise or problem before the service but the bad bearing immediately after (and I do mean immediately - less than 4km!) to me there's no question that the dealer was at fault here.

But I am reassured in a way that it wasn't normal wear, meaning no reason to replace the other bearing at the same time.

Cheers!

[smartzuuk 167]

17,000 km would be very uncommon, you have had bad luck IMOI anticipate needing mine done sometime after 100k - I'll rely on fasteddy to tell me when they are worthy of being replaced. Like the rear shocks, this is a wear item...

[bilgladstone 13]

... do I check ball joints for myself? The wheel bearing test is simple - is there a ball joint DIY test too?

Bil

....... conscientiously side-stepping the slough of BJ double-entendre

[MikeT 744]

To do a BJ test, grab the suspension or steering member and shake it back and forth to see if there is any play or clunking.

[bilgladstone 13]

To do a BJ test, grab the suspension or steering member and shake it back and forth to see if there is any play or clunking.

Can I do this wheels-down, or do I have to raise the front end? Should there be zero play, a little bit, or what?

B:sun:

biting... tongue...

[MikeT 744]

Raising the front up into the air would assist with the BJ test, thereby unoading the bearing members and maximising opportunities to feel play.

[2seatragtop 3]

Wow. I feel for you. My "A" and "B" services have been at MB West Island and although expensive compared to Mazda they seem competant. They replaced my turbo after a lose of power they said was attributable to a stuck Valve and this took 2 days but at least I had no new problems to contend with.Give them a try next time. They will rent you a car for $30/day if you need it.2seat (25000km)

[smartzuuk 167]

Someone should start making a note of all posts where a turbo replacement has been done. I'm serious. 'The Top 10 Reasons Why MB Replaced My Turbo!'10) Because it was the....Okay, I have to remember to play nice.

[bilgladstone 13]

Someone should start making a note of all posts where a turbo replacement has been done. I'm serious. 'The Top 10 Reasons Why MB Replaced My Turbo!'10) Because it was the....Okay, I have to remember to play nice.

Nice? Pfui! I'll throw my opinion on the table again:Because it was... easier and more profitable for the service centre than bothering to diagnose and repair the actual problem. B

[smartzuuk 167]

Bil, have you been playing with the crayons again?

[bilgladstone 13]

Bil, have you been playing with the crayons again?

I've ordered some new ones that write more clearly The old ones tasted a little... stale.B:sun:

[Eddie Eddie Eddie 1]

Because it was... A nice day outside, and I wanted to get home sooner!Eddie

[smartcruzin 0]

After warranty expiration just what would it cost roughly, taxes in, to replace all ball joints?