Where is the starter?

[leth 0]

Can anyone tell me where/how to locate the starter on a 450? My understanding is it's on the front driver side of the engine, above/near the clutch actuator, and that you should be able to see it from underneath; however I must be blind or blonde because I've looked all over the place but can't find it.

If I look up through the scoop I can see what *looks* like the shape of a starter however I don't see the 2 large battery connections running to it; just a plug with 4 or 5 wires (blue, white, green, yellow, ?)

As a side note, I'm experiencing an intermittent no-crank problem which only started in the last few days as the weather got colder, so I'm assuming it's a loose/corroded wiring problem, but would like to find the starter and verify that. It failed to bump start this morning, but I'm not sure if that's because it didn't roll fast/far enough or I didn't follow the procedure correctly.

[Alex 21]

"just a plug with 4 or 5 wires (blue, white, green, yellow, ?"

That's the alternator, starter is there but even harder to reach. A loose/corroded spade connector to the starter solenoid is a common no-crank issue. See http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?showtopic=21262 for more, and also http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?showtopic=23976 .

Edit: I think kdudya is correct, that is the shift motor not alternator. Alternator is also in the vicinity helping to block access.

If you have skilled small hands, know what you're feeling for, flex the motor on it's mounts and brace it with blocks you can reach the spade connector in question. Not easy but possible. If that's the problem all it needs is a squeeze to tighten it up. Disconnect the battery, there are live unguarded terminals there. No arc welding!

Edited October 19, 2014 by Alex

[kdubya 34]

I had the same experience. The thing your seeing from the scoop on the driver side is the shift motor. Its easy to pull, and has a simple plug connector. The top piece in the first pic. The starter is on the front passenger side of the engine (hard to even see it), and the engine has to be lowered to change it.

[dmoonen 54]

Its a bit of a pain to get at, the starter is located on top of the engine under the firewall so you have to lower the engine to get at it. Here's two photos so you can see its where abouts

Pulled Engine.tiff

[tolsen 630]

There is a way to get to the spade connector on starter solenoid without lowering. Working from right hand side rear wheel arch, remove wheel arch lining and plastic shield for drive belts which is attached to power pack sub frame. You can then reach in and access spade connector. Clean it and apply non conductive grease liberally. Worth while doing even if the fault turns out to be elsewhere.

[Bessy 16]

I'm in your area and work on smarts, if you find you're unable/unequipped to DIY send me a message. Definatly try Tolsen's metheod of reaching the spade connector, very common problem.

[leth 0]

kdubya was correct; I was looking at the shifter motor (figured that out by searching the part number on it's sticker.) It seems I was looking on the wrong side of the engine (maybe the picture I was looking at was from a 451?)

I found an old post from CANMAN (closed it and can't find it now) who said you can use a stick to reach down and wiggle the lead from the top of the engine. I'm going to try this and tolsen's suggestion tonight to see if I can at least get it to start, that way I know if it's really the lead or something else and get a proper fix done.

[tolsen 630]

I believe key operates a relay in the SAM which in turn operates starter solenoid. The problem could therefore also be with the SAM, Check whether you can hear relay in SAM when you operate key to start.

[kdubya 34]

kdubya was correct; I was looking at the shifter motor (figured that out by searching the part number on it's sticker.) It seems I was looking on the wrong side of the engine (maybe the picture I was looking at was from a 451?)

I found an old post from CANMAN (closed it and can't find it now) who said you can use a stick to reach down and wiggle the lead from the top of the engine. I'm going to try this and tolsen's suggestion tonight to see if I can at least get it to start, that way I know if it's really the lead or something else and get a proper fix done.

I know because I pulled mine (proud as a peacock) and called Mercedes with the part number for my "starter"

I bought a pair of 16" needle nose pliers, and I can reach the lead from the top. If you move a couple lines aside you can see it.

[leth 0]

I now see the starter from above; definitely a tight space. I got home too late tonight to try tolson's suggestion, but did use a stick to poke at the relay; however it still wouldn't start. I then attempted to get my multimeter on to the connections so I could check voltage, and lo and behold it decided to start. Maybe I accidentally wiggled the relay in the right way when using the multimeter leads.

I believe key operates a relay in the SAM which in turn operates starter solenoid. The problem could therefore also be with the SAM, Check whether you can hear relay in SAM when you operate key to start.

I hear a motor whirring (fuel pump I assume) for 5 seconds after I attempt to crank the engine; I can't recall if there was a "click" from a relay, and now it's decided to start properly so not sure if there's a relay sound or not. Assuming it starts to act up again, I'll check for that.

[kdubya 34]

Re-reading your original problem, where you said you couldn't bump start it, puts me in mind of a problem I recently had.

Turns out I needed to do the fuel pump relay. Please read this (http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?showtopic=28927#entry329531) and check out your N11 plug on your SAM and see if it looks bad.

In the end my car would turn over but not start, but previously it wouldn't even turn over. My starter was new, so I was confused. This seems to have solved the problem.

[bauzzoo 0]

kdubya was correct; I was looking at the shifter motor (figured that out by searching the part number on it's sticker.) It seems I was looking on the wrong side of the engine (maybe the picture I was looking at was from a 451?)

I found an old post from CANMAN (closed it and can't find it now) who said you can use a stick to reach down and wiggle the lead from the top of the engine. I'm going to try this and tolsen's suggestion tonight to see if I can at least get it to start, that way I know if it's really the lead or something else and get a proper fix done.

I know because I pulled mine (proud as a peacock) and called Mercedes with the part number for my "starter"

I bought a pair of 16" needle nose pliers, and I can reach the lead from the top. If you move a couple lines aside you can see it.

hi i am a new member, just adopted a smart for two and needed to change the starter, the braided wire from the solenoid to the starter was rotted away, bought a new starter $300.00 + tax, had to lower the engine and changed the starter-- the post attached is correct there are live wires right on the starter, disconnect the negative battery connection, also you should loosen the thermostat housing so that you can push it aside to get to the spade contact wire connection, you do not need to remove the rubber hoses. hope this helps---p.s. i will post a step by step how i lowered the engine if i cannot find a post in this forum---thank you bauzzoo