Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox Shoutbox - Chat with members! Open the Shoutbox in a popup

@  marchanna : (23 October 2014 - 06:26 PM) You should report that, it makes you an accessory after the fact. Oh crap! Now we're all accessories! Speaking of which, I should buy some accessories for my car.
@  Coast Steve : (23 October 2014 - 04:41 PM) He ment to say Killing time
@  Coast Steve : (23 October 2014 - 04:41 PM) Speaking of typing mistakes, my buddy typed to someone "I'm just around the corner killing Tim".
@  Wild! : (23 October 2014 - 11:52 AM) Going to Glenn's he says he may have what I need.
@  Wild! : (23 October 2014 - 11:49 AM) This has to do with side lighting.
@  Wild! : (23 October 2014 - 11:49 AM) No that part was done 2 years ago.
@  FlossyTheSmart : (23 October 2014 - 08:48 AM) Top secret panel painting project?
@  Wild! : (22 October 2014 - 04:05 PM) Does some one have an 450 old door skin? one that is broken or garbage want to do some tests on one before I attempt my good ones.
@  Mike T : (22 October 2014 - 06:20 AM) John from Victoria, are you and Keith on the site these days? We have a dinner on November 6th coming up in Victoria! It would be cool to see you both there! See the thread in the Vancouver Island sub-forum.
@  marchanna : (22 October 2014 - 05:37 AM) http://www.vevo.com/...es/USRV81400343
@  marchanna : (22 October 2014 - 05:34 AM) Not really. I love that you caught that. I accidentally typed that, and then I was going to correct it, and then I thought, "hmm, I wonder if I leave it there, if anyone would catch that".
@  FlossyTheSmart : (22 October 2014 - 05:31 AM) "effective"
@  marchanna : (22 October 2014 - 04:41 AM) I'm glad to see the shout box has become an effective form of communication :)
@  cadillacman : (22 October 2014 - 03:02 AM) what do you give to a sick pig ?
@  cadillacman : (22 October 2014 - 03:01 AM) oinkment
@  SkydiverChris : (21 October 2014 - 01:08 PM) Or does it? I say it's a conspiracy and they've fooled everyone!
@  marchanna : (20 October 2014 - 07:23 PM) No, but I have an infrared gun that would do the job. Unfortunately ( or fortunately) the ED doesn't have an exhaust.
@  Wild! : (20 October 2014 - 05:52 PM) Has anyone out there ever taken a temp reading from the exhaust manifold on the 450?
@  Mike T : (20 October 2014 - 10:27 AM) Yes, all of the below!
@  dmoonen : (20 October 2014 - 09:04 AM) Lol perhaps his smart

Photo

Brake fluid change


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 dabar

dabar
  • Regular Members
  • 51 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:toronto

Posted 18 July 2007 - 05:13 PM

Hi,I went to the dealership the other day and they told me that it is time to change my brake fluid. Right now I'm at 40 000Km, they said I should do it now but I can wait until my next B-Service. They told me all of this without even looking at the car. How much does this usually cost? Thanks! :doublethumb:

#2 Mike T

Mike T

    We pre-ordered our first smart in July 2002!

  • Directors
  • 27,815 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN

Posted 18 July 2007 - 07:56 PM

Mine was about $85 or so all in, not too bad.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#3 bilgladstone

bilgladstone

    This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  • Regular Members
  • 12,116 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kelowna, BC

Posted 19 July 2007 - 01:06 AM

... They told me all of this without even looking at the car...

Yes, it's a scheduled maintenance item when you reach 36,000km.

s m a r t regards,
Bil :sun:

#4 leejor

leejor
  • Regular Members
  • 383 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:WEsT Coast

Posted 19 July 2007 - 03:26 PM

I've been thinking of bleeding mine myself, long before 40,000 km, and put in DOT 4 (silicone). I've done my other cars and a motorcycle. At least DOT 4 doesn't take off the paint if you miss when topping up the reservoir.

#5 RichHelms

RichHelms
  • Regular Members
  • 2,509 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunderland, ON

Posted 19 July 2007 - 05:51 PM

When the dealer did mine, he broke a bleed screw and had to replace a front caliper. Ended up all warranty as replacing a caliper requires you to flush the brake fluid.
www.RichHelms.com - collection of my writings

#6 lebikerboy

lebikerboy
  • Regular Members
  • 1,978 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Vancouver

Posted 19 July 2007 - 08:09 PM

Dot 4 is not Silicone, Dot 5 is. Here's an article about the perils of changing...

Battle of the DOTs
DOT 3-4 Verses DOT 5. Which brake fluid should I use?
From Oak Okleshen #35 "With regards to the DOT 3-4 verses DOT 5 brake fluid controversy, here is an article sent to me by Mr. Steve Wall. It is one of the most professional treatments I have seen on the subject".

[I had to condense this article from 6 pages to 1 due to space limitations -ed]

Brake Fluid Facts
by Steve Wall

As a former materials engineering supervisor at a major automotive brake system supplier, I feel both qualified and obligated to inject some material science facts into the murky debate about DOT 5 verses DOT 3-4 brake fluids. The important technical issues governing the use of a particular specification brake fluid are as follows:

Fluid compatibility with the brake system rubber, plastic and metal components.
Water absorption and corrosion.
Fluid boiling point and other physical characteristics.
Brake system contamination and sludging.
Additionally, some technical comments will be made about the new brake fluid formulations appearing on the scene.

First of all, it's important to understand the chemical nature of brake fluid. DOT 3 brake fluids are mixtures of glycols and glycol ethers. DOT 4 contains borate esters in addition to what is contained in DOT 3. These brake fluids are somewhat similar to automotive anti-freeze (ethylene glycol) and are not, as Dr. Curve implies, a petroleum fluid. DOT 5 is silicone chemistry.

Fluid Compatibility
Brake system materials must be compatible with the system fluid. Compatibility is determined by chemistry, and no amount of advertising, wishful thinking or rationalizing can change the science of chemical compatibility. Both DOT 3-4 and DOT 5 fluids are compatible with most brake system materials except in the case some silicone rubber external components such as caliper piston boots, which are attacked by silicon fluids and greases.

Water absorption and corrosion
The big bugaboo with DOT 3-4 fluids always cited by silicone fluid advocates is water absorption. DOT 3-4 glycol based fluids, just like ethylene glycol antifreezes, are readily miscible with water. Long term brake system water content tends to reach a maximum of about 3%, which is readily handled by the corrosion inhibitors in the brake fluid formulation. Since the inhibitors are gradually depleted as they do their job, glycol brake fluid, just like anti-freeze, needs to be changed periodically. Follow BMW's recommendations. DOT 5 fluids, not being water miscible, must rely on the silicone (with some corrosion inhibitors) as a barrier film to control corrosion. Water is not absorbed by silicone as in the case of DOT 3-4 fluids, and will remain as a separate globule sinking to the lowest point in the brake system, since it is more dense.

Fluid boiling point
DOT 4 glycol based fluid has a higher boiling point (446F) than DOT 3 (401F), and both fluids will exhibit a reduced boiling point as water content increases. DOT 5 in its pure state offers a higher boiling point (500F) however if water got into the system, and a big globule found its way into a caliper, the water would start to boil at 212F causing a vapor lock condition [possible brake failure -ed.]. By contrast, DOT 3 fluid with 3% water content would still exhibit a boiling point of 300F. Silicone fluids also exhibit a 3 times greater propensity to dissolve air and other gasses which can lead to a "spongy pedal" and reduced braking at high altitudes.

DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids are mutually compatible, the major disadvantage of such a mix being a lowered boiling point. In an emergency, it'll do. Silicone fluid will not mix, but will float on top. From a lubricity standpoint, neither fluids are outstanding, though silicones will exhibit a more stable viscosity index in extreme temperatures, which is why the US Army likes silicone fluids. Since few of us ride at temperatures very much below freezing, let alone at 40 below zero, silicone's low temperature advantage won't be apparent. Neither fluids will reduce stopping distances.

With the advent of ABS systems, the limitations of existing brake fluids have been recognized and the brake fluid manufacturers have been working on formulations with enhanced properties. However, the chosen direction has not been silicone. The only major user of silicone is the US Army. It has recently asked the SAE about a procedure for converting from silicon back to DOT 3-4. If they ever decide to switch, silicone brake fluid will go the way of leaded gas.

Brake system contamination
The single most common brake system failure caused by a contaminant is swelling of the rubber components (piston seals etc.) due to the introduction of petroleum based products (motor oil, power steering fluid, mineral oil etc.) A small amount is enough to do major damage. Flushing with mineral spirits is enough to cause a complete system failure in a short time. I suspect this is what has happened when some BMW owners changed to DOT 5 (and then assumed that silicone caused the problem). Flushing with alcohol also causes problems. BMW brake systems should be flushed only with DOT 3 or 4.

If silicone is introduced into an older brake system, the silicone will latch unto the sludge generated by gradual component deterioration and create a gelatin like goop which will attract more crud and eventually plug up metering orifices or cause pistons to stick. If you have already changed to DOT 5, don't compound your initial mistake and change back. Silicone is very tenacious stuff and you will never get it all out of your system. Just change the fluid regularly. For those who race using silicone fluid, I recommend that you crack the bleed screws before each racing session to insure that there is no water in the calipers.

New developments
Since DOT 4 fluids were developed, it was recognized that borate ester based fluids offered the potential for boiling points beyond the 446F requirement, thus came the Super DOT 4 fluids - some covered by the DOT 5.1 designation - which exhibit a minimum dry boiling point of 500F (same as silicone, but different chemistry).

Additionally, a new fluid type based on silicon ester chemistry (not the same as silicon) has been developed that exhibits a minimum dry boiling point of 590F. It is miscible with DOT 3-4 fluids but has yet to see commercial usage.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#7 Evilution

Evilution
  • Regular Members
  • 990 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 19 July 2007 - 11:27 PM

I've been thinking of bleeding mine myself, long before 40,000 km, and put in silicone.

:tremble: don't, you'll damage the car. You cannot properly bleed the smart yourself, only what is in the pipes and tank. Smart use the Star machine to open the ABS pump and pulse it to clear the fluids, even then it won't be clean enough to add silicone.

I'm back, a bit, maybe.

#8 Eddie Eddie Eddie

Eddie Eddie Eddie
  • Regular Members
  • 2,633 posts
  • Location:No fixed address...

Posted 20 July 2007 - 04:58 PM

When I recently did my brake job...I had to bleed about 5ml from each side to get the piston back into place.I did not top up because the fluid level was still where it should be...Did I damage my car/brakes by opening that bleed screw?Eddie
We're going to party, karamu, FIESTA, forever!

#9 Mike T

Mike T

    We pre-ordered our first smart in July 2002!

  • Directors
  • 27,815 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN

Posted 20 July 2007 - 05:00 PM

No, that should be OK. No air can get in if you do it carefully, as I'm sure you and Derek did.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#10 Speedie

Speedie

    Former Chief cook and bottle washer

  • Administrators
  • 6,829 posts
  • Location:Victoria

Posted 20 July 2007 - 06:29 PM

When you fit new pads you usually have to lower the fluid level a bit - the new pads are thicker so the pistons don't go out so far - hence less volume in them. It is not a bad idea to give your bleeders a love tweak now and again to keep them from freezing in - procedure is to have some one apply a bit of pressure to the pedal to keep some pressure on the line. If you are bleeding - you let fluid come out to displace the air - refilling the master cylinder. Usually the bleeder is low in the circuit as well - helps flush crud out. If you do this - insert disclaimer here - harm death - bring the video camera - make sure you know what you are doing - tighten them well - wipe them off first - don't strip or break the bleeder.Some cars are real @#$%& - you have to either pressure bleed (put a pressure feed on the master cylinder or vacuum bleed (draw vacuum to bring the air out) them. I'm hoping the smart is not one of those. Some cars had an issue with the pressure switch (i.e. there is a switch - if one part of the circuit has less pressure (leak) then the other it comes on) - getting them to reset could be fun too.The new DOT 5.1 is of interest - but only if you are racing or towing - the smart is pretty well braked so normal DOT 3 or 4 should be more than fine. Looked into Silicone when it first camed out - more issues than it was worth - plus with DOT 3 or 4 - you can change the fluid a couple of times for the same cost.Cheers,Cameron
"Lucy" 2006 Passion - Ruby Red - sunroof - black tridion
"NuBlu" - 2006 Pulse - Star Blue - black tridion - in need of some TLC
1994 Jeep YJ
1990 Dodge D250

#11 Mike T

Mike T

    We pre-ordered our first smart in July 2002!

  • Directors
  • 27,815 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN

Posted 20 July 2007 - 07:16 PM

Whenever I've changed pads, I've never had to drain off any fluid, but only because I had not topped it up as the pads wore.....Ideally the bleed screws should be at a high point in the caliper, to encourage bubbles to get out. I'm not sure where the smart's are....But that's less of a concern with power bleeding equipment. Bleeding by pumping the brake pedal should be a last resort, as it often leads to master cylinder seal failure, especially in higher km cars.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#12 Speedie

Speedie

    Former Chief cook and bottle washer

  • Administrators
  • 6,829 posts
  • Location:Victoria

Posted 20 July 2007 - 07:54 PM

Hi Mike - I meant lower in relation to most of the other components.The trick to bleeding brakes without issues is gentle pressure - if you stomp them like a mad kangaroo - expect issues - you can also get a bleeder bottle to do it one handed - or a little vacuum pump - if it fits the bleeders. Done it litterally a hundred times with out any issues.If the MC is that close to failing - best do it too - 'cause in an emergency you tend not to moderate your effort on the brake.Cheers,Cameron
"Lucy" 2006 Passion - Ruby Red - sunroof - black tridion
"NuBlu" - 2006 Pulse - Star Blue - black tridion - in need of some TLC
1994 Jeep YJ
1990 Dodge D250

#13 Mike T

Mike T

    We pre-ordered our first smart in July 2002!

  • Directors
  • 27,815 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN

Posted 20 July 2007 - 08:19 PM

I use a power bleeder myself, but if you have to pump the pedal because you don't have one of these, only use the range of travel that the pedal normally would move in.Going beyond that can rip the seal to shreds. The cylinder bore is polished where the normal range of piston/seal travel is, but it can be corroded beyond. So a perfectly good seal that could last another decade in normal use can be ruined by pushing the pedal in too far when purging the brake fluid.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#14 Eddie Eddie Eddie

Eddie Eddie Eddie
  • Regular Members
  • 2,633 posts
  • Location:No fixed address...

Posted 20 July 2007 - 09:07 PM

I did not have Derek on hand as this was on the Sunday when I finally got that gator socket to remove the E18 bolts...What I did was keep pressure on the piston, then opened the screw a touch with my pocket gerber...As a tiny amount of fluid came out... I was able to squeeze the piston back into place. Closed the screw, then used the backing plate of the pad to get it the rest of the way.Eddie
We're going to party, karamu, FIESTA, forever!

#15 Mike T

Mike T

    We pre-ordered our first smart in July 2002!

  • Directors
  • 27,815 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN

Posted 20 July 2007 - 09:08 PM

Should be good.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#16 Evilution

Evilution
  • Regular Members
  • 990 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 21 July 2007 - 03:59 AM

When changing pads, just open the brake fluid tank by removing the cap and push the caliper piston in by hand, that way you don't have to bleed any fluid.

I'm back, a bit, maybe.

#17 Eddie Eddie Eddie

Eddie Eddie Eddie
  • Regular Members
  • 2,633 posts
  • Location:No fixed address...

Posted 21 July 2007 - 06:12 AM

Would our brake fluid absorb too much moisture that way?Eddie
We're going to party, karamu, FIESTA, forever!

#18 Evilution

Evilution
  • Regular Members
  • 990 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 21 July 2007 - 12:44 PM

Nope, brake fluid doesn't retain a great deal of moisture thesedays, not as bad as it used to, just undoing the cap, pressing the caliper piston in and tighten the lid on again won't introduce any water at all.

I'm back, a bit, maybe.

#19 Speedie

Speedie

    Former Chief cook and bottle washer

  • Administrators
  • 6,829 posts
  • Location:Victoria

Posted 21 July 2007 - 11:05 PM

I was referring to giving the bleeders a occasional opening - not about retracting the pads for doing the bleeding thing. The salt they use on the roads in places here does wonders to ensure parts act as one. Opening the bleeder once in a while rather than after several years - keeps them so you can open them when you have to. C Clamp and a stickof wood work good if the caliper is less than friendly (or truck sized). Mainly the storage of brake fluid Eddie that causes moisture issues - only buy quantities that you will use within a short while (i.e. a year or so) and make sure the lid is on tight.Cheers,Cameron
"Lucy" 2006 Passion - Ruby Red - sunroof - black tridion
"NuBlu" - 2006 Pulse - Star Blue - black tridion - in need of some TLC
1994 Jeep YJ
1990 Dodge D250

#20 smartcruzin

smartcruzin
  • Regular Members
  • 422 posts
  • Location:victoria

Posted 21 July 2007 - 11:31 PM

I agree that changing brake fluid on a regular schedule is a good idea.Nowhere in my '06 warranty booklet(checked "additional work") or owners manual does it state anything about changing it.Bill,where did you find the recommended frequency of 36,000kms? Is there also a time component or just mileage? Just curious.
'06 Passion ordered from MB Richmond, built 11Oct05, purchased "Keene" 03Feb06- Bay grey metallic/silver tridion, bungee grey interior, sunroof, heated seats, sound package, softouch, clock/rev counter, pollen/dust filter, locking storage drawer, cupholder, cd trays, vanity mirror, luggage cover, trunk tray, wheel locks.

#21 Eddie Eddie Eddie

Eddie Eddie Eddie
  • Regular Members
  • 2,633 posts
  • Location:No fixed address...

Posted 22 July 2007 - 12:05 AM

Check the back section of the service manual...there's a section about extra work to be done on the A/B services and at what interval.Eddie
We're going to party, karamu, FIESTA, forever!

#22 smartcruzin

smartcruzin
  • Regular Members
  • 422 posts
  • Location:victoria

Posted 22 July 2007 - 12:11 AM

Hey Eddie! Actually there's nothing in that section. Already checked. They talk about fuel filter, antifreeze intervals but nothing on brake fluid. You've got an '06 too. If you find that info let me know.
'06 Passion ordered from MB Richmond, built 11Oct05, purchased "Keene" 03Feb06- Bay grey metallic/silver tridion, bungee grey interior, sunroof, heated seats, sound package, softouch, clock/rev counter, pollen/dust filter, locking storage drawer, cupholder, cd trays, vanity mirror, luggage cover, trunk tray, wheel locks.

#23 RichHelms

RichHelms
  • Regular Members
  • 2,509 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunderland, ON

Posted 22 July 2007 - 02:23 PM

What I have always been told on Mercedes was change fluid every two years. I did mine at 75K as that was where I was at 2 years old.
www.RichHelms.com - collection of my writings

#24 yellow bumble bee

yellow bumble bee
  • Regular Members
  • 522 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chilliwack, BC

Posted 22 July 2007 - 05:06 PM

If you look on the last page of the "Service Sheet for smart fortwo coupe/cabriolet" under "every 2 years" it says

Replace brake fluid

Roy

2006 Smart Pulse-151k+ Only 849,000 Kilometres to go to make my first Million
Mac007 on the Spritmonitor.
Lifetime FE 4.18 litres per 100 kilometres. 56.4 MPG (US)

#25 Evilution

Evilution
  • Regular Members
  • 990 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 23 July 2007 - 03:28 AM

I was referring to giving the bleeders a occasional opening

Oh ok, sorry. Just opening the bleed nipples is a bad idea. Although it is a good idea to open them once a year to stop them seizing up. Best idead is to pump the foot pedal until it's solid, hold the pressure on it while someone opens the nipple. As soon as your foot touches the floor get them to close the nipple BEFORE raising your foot again. Repeat with the other 3.

I'm back, a bit, maybe.

#26 ValgardForkbeard

ValgardForkbeard
  • Regular Members
  • 2,377 posts
  • Location:Gibbons, Alberta

Posted 23 July 2007 - 01:07 PM

I was referring to giving the bleeders a occasional opening

Oh ok, sorry. Just opening the bleed nipples is a bad idea. Although it is a good idea to open them once a year to stop them seizing up. Best idead is to pump the foot pedal until it's solid, hold the pressure on it while someone opens the nipple. As soon as your foot touches the floor get them to close the nipple BEFORE raising your foot again. Repeat with the other 3.

Get a short piece of clear plastic pipe to slide over the nipple and point it into a catch container. Otherwise, you may end up spraying brake fluid over various parts of the car and/or yourself, and the fluid will stripe paint quite nicely. If you are just giving it an occasional opening, and not actually bleeding the brakes, close the nipple as soon as any fluid starts coming out. My opinion, and what a number of us used to do on the race bikes. MG
Agent86 - 2006 Pulse Coupe Star Blue Metallic
- Well into my third year of smart driving
1986 Honda VFR750 - for when I want to go fast

Unix is user friendly. It's just very particular about who it's friends are


#27 smartklasse

smartklasse
  • Regular Members
  • 43 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 04 September 2007 - 07:18 AM

Hi, I just dropped off my car this morning for some warranty issues. The service guy at Mercedes Downtown also asked me to get my brake fluid changed. He mentioned the two years or 25 000km interval. Mine is a 2005 model with 33 000km on.But they want $140 for it!!! How did you get it done for $85 Mike???They also want to do my alignment for $235. I agreed kind of unwillingly. But I guess I have to?What do you think?Kerstin

#28 smart142

smart142

    moderator

  • Global Moderators*
  • 6,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lambeth/London Ontario Canada

Posted 04 September 2007 - 08:05 AM

They also want to do my alignment for $235. I agreed kind of unwillingly. But I guess I have to?

Hi Kirsten! Do you lease or own the vehicle? Personally I think it is too soon to do an alignment unless there are issues, pulling to one side or uneven tire wear.
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver-loaded! ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)SOLD! 12 Sept 2014 - 3 months shy of 10 year ownership. Now driving a 2005 loaded passion. Blue/silver that was owned and modified by Dan Gold.

4.4

#29 smartklasse

smartklasse
  • Regular Members
  • 43 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 04 September 2007 - 08:10 AM

I own my car. (almost at least according to my payments.... lol)I don't have any issues with the alignment. It does not pull anywhere. The tire wear I have not checked myself. The tire guys have not mentioned anything last spring when I got my summer tires back on either.The service guy just said that all front driven cars should be aligned on a regular basis. I had no knowledge on that matter that's why I agreed. So you recommend calling and cancelling the alignment if it isn't too late?Thanks for your advise smart 142Kerstin

#30 plaincorgi

plaincorgi

    Yesterdays Jam

  • Regular Members
  • 768 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Waterloo ON

Posted 04 September 2007 - 08:17 AM

I own my car. (almost at least according to my payments.... lol) I don't have any issues with the alignment. It does not pull anywhere. The tire wear I have not checked myself. The tire guys have not mentioned anything last spring when I got my summer tires back on either. The service guy just said that all front driven cars should be aligned on a regular basis. I had no knowledge on that matter that's why I agreed. So you recommend calling and cancelling the alignment if it isn't too late? Thanks for your advise smart 142 Kerstin

:tremble: might want to tell y our service guy that the smart is rear wheel driven...
-Maty
-2006 Red/Black Pulse 002 of 200, Steel Vent Controls, AeroTwins, Removed Sunshade, Rear Shelf, Vortex Generators, cd holder, cup holder, auto (ugh)

http://smart.mgarraway.net


#31 smartklasse

smartklasse
  • Regular Members
  • 43 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 04 September 2007 - 08:27 AM

now you are getting me all confused....But I am quite sure that he mentioned that. Maybe he got it wrong but nevertheless does it affect the alignment or not???Do I have to go for it or cancel?Kerstin

#32 smart142

smart142

    moderator

  • Global Moderators*
  • 6,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lambeth/London Ontario Canada

Posted 04 September 2007 - 08:30 AM

''So you recommend calling and cancelling the alignment if it isn't too late? ''I would. I'm at 96,000kms with the original tires, no alignment, and no issues!
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver-loaded! ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)SOLD! 12 Sept 2014 - 3 months shy of 10 year ownership. Now driving a 2005 loaded passion. Blue/silver that was owned and modified by Dan Gold.

4.4

#33 smartklasse

smartklasse
  • Regular Members
  • 43 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 04 September 2007 - 08:49 AM

ok done, cancelled. The guy was really trying to talk me into it. Saying that especially front driven cars need it done at least every two years. And I argued that the Smart is rear driven. His argument was that after already 6 months the alignment is usually off.Well I told him to look at the tires if they are ok, don't align, if they are worn go for it.Why would I change a winning team???Money grab....Thanks for your advise guysKerstin

#34 ARTZ

ARTZ

    Go Green... stream green!!!

  • Regular Members
  • 2,108 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fredericton, NB

Posted 04 September 2007 - 08:56 AM

Why would he say "Front Driven Cars"? Are there very many Mercedes that are Front Wheel Drive? I know the B series is, what about the others?
ARTZ 2006 with Euro Panels and a X-Gauge

#35 bilgladstone

bilgladstone

    This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  • Regular Members
  • 12,116 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kelowna, BC

Posted 04 September 2007 - 09:17 AM

...The service guy just said that all front driven cars should be aligned on a regular basis...

Uh-oh :banghead: He's never worked on a smart, has he? Either that or he is taking advantage of you. Either way, I would seriously start shopping for a new service centre after this appointment. Bil :sun:
Join more than 210 smarties on the map! Where are you? CLICK HERE to add your marker!
::
[

#36 smartzuuk

smartzuuk

    Secretary, CsC Board of Directors

  • Directors
  • 6,926 posts
  • Location:BC

Posted 04 September 2007 - 09:36 AM

Pass on the alignment if you notice no issues. At 118,000 kms, I never detected uneven wear on my tires. 33,000 kms is for sure too soon to worry about it, and $235 is, well, ridiculous.
I once was found, but now I'm lost.

#37 smartklasse

smartklasse
  • Regular Members
  • 43 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 04 September 2007 - 10:11 AM

great enouragement from you guys.I hope they did not find any wear on the tires, I will definetly check myself tonight. That is the only permission I gave them to do the alignment.I love this forum....Kerstin

#38 maxwell smart

maxwell smart
  • Regular Members
  • 117 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted 04 September 2007 - 05:31 PM

I think this guy is taking advantage of your lack of knowledge of the Smart. You don't need an appointment if there is no pulling or uneven tire wear. Just look at the tread on the tire. If the surface is even from the outside to the inside then it is OK. I have to do an aligment on my Smart early the year because my son hit a huge pot hole in the Winter and the steering wheel was offset to one side. It only cost me $50. at an independent repair shop. The guy put the Smart on the machine and pull up the spec for the Smart. The machine displays the car's aligment before and after the aligment was done. You can even get a print out of the aligment before and after the adjustment. I watch the guy do the adjustment and only took about half an hour. The dealer charge around $80. $325. is a ripoff.

#39 maxwell smart

maxwell smart
  • Regular Members
  • 117 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted 04 September 2007 - 05:43 PM

They also want to do my alignment for $235. I agreed kind of unwillingly. But I guess I have to? What do you think? Kerstin

You don't have to and they can't make you. Time to find another dealer.

#40 Mike T

Mike T

    We pre-ordered our first smart in July 2002!

  • Directors
  • 27,815 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN

Posted 04 September 2007 - 05:51 PM

He mentioned the two years or 25 000km interval. Mine is a 2005 model with 33 000km on. But they want $140 for it!!! How did you get it done for $85 Mike???

I guess my dealer is better than your dealer! In fact, I know that, because as others have said, the price they quoted you for a toe adjustment (which is what a "wheel alignment" on a fortwo is) is at least $150 over the odds. And it's likely not needed in the frst place.... They're trying to make some sort of servce revenue quota, at your expense....... the dirtballs! The brake fluid change is recommended for two years, whether the car has zero or 100,000 km on it. So the "or 20,000 km" line is rubbish. It is a function of how long the car has been in existence more than how much it has been driven, though the latter is a factor too. Here is why brake fluid needs periodic changing: there is an air breather hole on the fluid reservoir that allows atmospheric air to be sucked in as the brakes are applied and fluid is displaced, and also as the linings wear out. This air contains water vapour, which is absorbed into the brake fluid and - if the concentration of water in the brake fluid gets high enough - the brake fluid can boil more easily when the brakes are being used a lot (resulting in a severe loss in braking power), and the bores of the brake cylinders/calipers can rust too, potentially ruining them. Do you have a different dealer that you can take it to? The place you went to seems to be jerking you around. If you can't change dealers, at least let the service guy know you are onto him, next time.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#41 smartklasse

smartklasse
  • Regular Members
  • 43 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 04 September 2007 - 05:52 PM

all I had was a warranty issue with water in the tale lights and my clock running late all the time. That's the only reason why I went to the dealer this time. My service is done by Super Smart in Hamilton because my experience is not the best with the dealer. Downtown is the one next to me that's why I took them. But in future I will stay away as much as I can. Promised.And next time I run into Markus Breitschwerdt (CEO of Mercedes) I will have some talking to do. I speak the same dialect as him (we are both from Stuttgart)I guess MB service just tries to make money on an otherwise loss.But they have now strict instructions not to do the alignment unless really necessary.The change of brake fluid is something I understand and that's why I gave my go ahead. I have not received back my car as of yet. I will keep you posted. Meanwhile I test the B Class. Free loaners for warranty issues.Good nightKerstin

#42 smart142

smart142

    moderator

  • Global Moderators*
  • 6,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lambeth/London Ontario Canada

Posted 04 September 2007 - 07:24 PM

Oakville Autohaus has been recommended for warranty work.This is what DieselDave had to say:''Oakville MB never questions anything I do to the car. They fix it free, they fix it right and they never complain about anything. I've never been treated so nicely in my entire life. They only charge for things that aren't warranty and I gladly pay them.''
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver-loaded! ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)SOLD! 12 Sept 2014 - 3 months shy of 10 year ownership. Now driving a 2005 loaded passion. Blue/silver that was owned and modified by Dan Gold.

4.4

#43 smartklasse

smartklasse
  • Regular Members
  • 43 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 05 September 2007 - 01:11 PM

Hi guys, just a quick info, I picked up my car without the alignment done. My tires are in perfect shape. No big bill. I just paid roughly $90 for the brake fluid change. They replaced my tale light and my clock, some wiring and antenna because I had a squeeling noise when I tuned to AM stations and hit the break. They might even have exchanged my whole radio? It says Radio Replace on the work sheet. What's the control unit box they reconfigured? They repaired the wiring harness for control uit box.Wow all that stuff just for the clock and water in the light..Now I know why they wanted to make money with the alignment....But again THANKS guys, you saved me a lot of money!!! And I have a funny feeling that they would have done more damage at the end....Kerstinenjoy the ride

#44 Mike T

Mike T

    We pre-ordered our first smart in July 2002!

  • Directors
  • 27,815 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN

Posted 05 September 2007 - 04:04 PM

The control box was relocated from the battery box to the front toeboard area.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#45 maxwell smart

maxwell smart
  • Regular Members
  • 117 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted 05 September 2007 - 04:21 PM

If they replaced your radio make sure they give you the security code for it.

#46 smartklasse

smartklasse
  • Regular Members
  • 43 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 05 September 2007 - 04:32 PM

I think they didn't. My stored stations are still the same and no technician would ever write them down. I don't know what this is on my paper but who cares. The radio works fine.Mike, any reason for that? Ok, I search the forum, I am sure you guys have talked about that before.

#47 Mike T

Mike T

    We pre-ordered our first smart in July 2002!

  • Directors
  • 27,815 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN

Posted 05 September 2007 - 06:02 PM

Yes, it is to get the electronic control box that was added for Canada out of the way of any water that could find its way into the battery box.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users