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@  marchanna : (23 October 2014 - 06:26 PM) You should report that, it makes you an accessory after the fact. Oh crap! Now we're all accessories! Speaking of which, I should buy some accessories for my car.
@  Coast Steve : (23 October 2014 - 04:41 PM) He ment to say Killing time
@  Coast Steve : (23 October 2014 - 04:41 PM) Speaking of typing mistakes, my buddy typed to someone "I'm just around the corner killing Tim".
@  Wild! : (23 October 2014 - 11:52 AM) Going to Glenn's he says he may have what I need.
@  Wild! : (23 October 2014 - 11:49 AM) This has to do with side lighting.
@  Wild! : (23 October 2014 - 11:49 AM) No that part was done 2 years ago.
@  FlossyTheSmart : (23 October 2014 - 08:48 AM) Top secret panel painting project?
@  Wild! : (22 October 2014 - 04:05 PM) Does some one have an 450 old door skin? one that is broken or garbage want to do some tests on one before I attempt my good ones.
@  Mike T : (22 October 2014 - 06:20 AM) John from Victoria, are you and Keith on the site these days? We have a dinner on November 6th coming up in Victoria! It would be cool to see you both there! See the thread in the Vancouver Island sub-forum.
@  marchanna : (22 October 2014 - 05:37 AM) http://www.vevo.com/...es/USRV81400343
@  marchanna : (22 October 2014 - 05:34 AM) Not really. I love that you caught that. I accidentally typed that, and then I was going to correct it, and then I thought, "hmm, I wonder if I leave it there, if anyone would catch that".
@  FlossyTheSmart : (22 October 2014 - 05:31 AM) "effective"
@  marchanna : (22 October 2014 - 04:41 AM) I'm glad to see the shout box has become an effective form of communication :)
@  cadillacman : (22 October 2014 - 03:02 AM) what do you give to a sick pig ?
@  cadillacman : (22 October 2014 - 03:01 AM) oinkment
@  SkydiverChris : (21 October 2014 - 01:08 PM) Or does it? I say it's a conspiracy and they've fooled everyone!
@  marchanna : (20 October 2014 - 07:23 PM) No, but I have an infrared gun that would do the job. Unfortunately ( or fortunately) the ED doesn't have an exhaust.
@  Wild! : (20 October 2014 - 05:52 PM) Has anyone out there ever taken a temp reading from the exhaust manifold on the 450?
@  Mike T : (20 October 2014 - 10:27 AM) Yes, all of the below!
@  dmoonen : (20 October 2014 - 09:04 AM) Lol perhaps his smart

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451 Actual Realistic Mileage, Anyone?


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186 replies to this topic

#1 BrianC

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 02:07 PM

Hi All,Some of you may remember me while I'm a newbie for others.I was one of the first few 450 owners in Canada when it was first launched.Managed to do 3.9L/100km over 46000km before I was forced to sell my car.There is NOT one single day went by that I don't regret selling it :(Now I'm in the position to get myself another one but was so disheartened to find out that they no longer offer Diesel version on 451 and the gas version's published fuel consumption figures are down right terrible.Are there any 451 owners out there who can report a more pleasing fuel consumption value?Even if it's somewhere around 4 - 4.5L/100km combined, I'd pull the trigger and get myself into a new fortwo this X'mas.If it's really as bad as published (5.9L/100km) or worse, then I guess I'll have to wait until they eventually bring a diesel version back or try to find a nice used one.Any help are greatly appreciated! :bowdown:best regards,BrianC
Brian ... 2006 Black/Stream Green Pulse Cabrio (#6601) with Twister Green interior.
Extras: A/C, heated seats, sound upgrade, cabin filter, black triangular hub covers as well as full hub covers for winter steelies.

Used to own ... 2005 Silver/Black Passion Cabrio (#664) with Bungee Red interior.
Extras: A/C, heated seats, retrofitted Softtouch, tach & clock pods, sound upgrade, cabin filter, black triangular hub covers for winter steelies, Euro signal lights with Fog Lights and Orange Slice as signal repeaters, factory iPod KIT.
My old average was 3.8L/100km

#2 Mike T

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 05:22 PM

If you got 3.9 with a 450 cdi, you should be around 4.9 with a 451. Most users in Europe so far are in the 6 range.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#3 BrianC

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 07:29 PM

Wow, that's scary. I don't consider myself outstanding doing 3.9L on the 450, just an average driver (sorry Mike T, I know you're in the 3.9L range too and I do not mean to put you in average grade, you are one of the few names I recall from a previous forum and your knowledge on the car is beyond superb!!), so I guess I'd really have to struggle to get into the below 5.0 when everyone else in Europe is doing 6'ish.I might sweet talk/pay some money/arm wrestle my sales rep into letting me keep the test-drive overnite, and I'll try to burn a full tank of gas to see how good (or bad) I do on the 451.
Brian ... 2006 Black/Stream Green Pulse Cabrio (#6601) with Twister Green interior.
Extras: A/C, heated seats, sound upgrade, cabin filter, black triangular hub covers as well as full hub covers for winter steelies.

Used to own ... 2005 Silver/Black Passion Cabrio (#664) with Bungee Red interior.
Extras: A/C, heated seats, retrofitted Softtouch, tach & clock pods, sound upgrade, cabin filter, black triangular hub covers for winter steelies, Euro signal lights with Fog Lights and Orange Slice as signal repeaters, factory iPod KIT.
My old average was 3.8L/100km

#4 Alex

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 09:39 PM

When in France during Sept. we rented a turbo passion for 2800 Km. Not too good milage conditions, I would expect around 4.75 to 5.25 on my cdi. The new one's best tank was 6.10, worst 8.22 ! Avg 6.57. Not impressive that's for sure. Runs hot too, I wouldn't expect great life. Sure is peppy though. Get a used CDI and wait for the new model bugs to get addressed and the CDI to come to North America

#5 jamessmart

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 07:40 AM

Good question - I still think in MPG, trying to convert thinking over to L per 100, I think metric for temp and distance OK!! I hve a 92 VW van that gets about 27 mpg so am looking forward to MUCH better milage on my new smart (If it ever arrives!) I will be recording and checking so will update!!

#6 jamessmart

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 07:41 AM

Good question - I still think in MPG, trying to convert thinking over to L per 100, I think metric for temp and distance OK!! I hve a 92 VW van that gets about 27 mpg so am looking forward to MUCH better milage on my new smart (If it ever arrives!) I will be recording and checking so will update!!

#7 Mike T

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 03:07 PM

6.57 is about spot on the spritmonitor average for the 84 HP Turbo. I would expect most 451 owners with the 71 HP engine to be running in the mid-6s too.BrianC, I remember your new smart was yoinked by someone at Mercedes and they had to find you another one really quickly to save face! That was WAY back in 2004....

Edited by Mike T, 16 December 2007 - 03:08 PM.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
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#8 Mike T

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 09:22 PM

This article indicates that a fortwo cdi will do 2.9 L/100 km in economical driving, though they call the motor crude and tractor-like in its operation. More interestingly perhaps, the 451 with the 61 HP engine (similar to the 71 but restricted by the mapping) can also do well: 3.7 L/100 km in economical driving, with a carbon dioxide emission of 88 g/km at that consumption level.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#9 jamessmart

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Posted 29 December 2007 - 01:45 PM

451 purchased Last Sat - First fill - last night - Dist - 477 Kms - Fill - 28.2 L - I figure around 50 mpg or 5.7 l/100km - rough guess, but for first tank - I'm happy.

#10 smartboy

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 06:01 AM

I am almost done my first fill up ... I have done mostly highway driving and currently sit at 571 km and 3.0 litres left in the tank. I am going to fill up today and track tank number two.James aka smartboy
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#11 denisjolicoeur

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 12:31 PM

I picked up mine on December 24th. Drove around town for a few days then took a trip from Winnipeg to Regina and MooseJaw (averaging 115 to 120 kph on the Trans Canada). Unfortunately I'm dealing with really bad conditions that negatively affect mileage on any vehicle. My wife and I are both lead-foots, extreme cold for a few days; -25'C, and then 70-90kph cross-winds on the highway for the trip back.So far averaging 7.03L/100 kms (or 40.19 mpg imperial). Best tank was 6.61L/100 kms (or 42.76 mpg imperial). I'm sure this will do nothing but improve given better weather conditions and as the car breaks in and loosens up more.
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#12 smartzuuk

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 09:56 PM

I'm looking forward to seeing what people get with the gassers, especially those who just 'drive'. And to compare that against the cdi for the same driver.
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#13 lehter

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 06:03 PM

I too would be interested in a true cost per 100 Km comparison between the 450 and 451 considering the price of diesel vs the price of the recommended premium gas and the lower mileage of the 451. Anyone worked that out ?

#14 Mike T

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 11:42 AM

You'd have to factor servicing costs in as well, which are to the 451's benefit.

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#15 glasslady

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 05:35 PM

I have not seen anybody mentioning that the 451 uses Premium Gas. Which around here is 12 cent more than regular. That doesn't make it very economical. If we were to buy another smart, we would wait for another CDI (hopefully the Bluetec).
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#16 glasslady

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 05:37 PM

Sorry, Lether, I have seen your reply too late.
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#17 Nextourer

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 08:30 PM

If you guys are interested, I was working out the difference in fuel cost between a Yaris and a fortwo.Given that they travel ~550kms on one "tank" of gas in the city (33 litres on the smart, 37 litres on the Yaris...so both cars have 5 litres left in their tank), the cost of 33 litres of premium at $1.164 is $38.41. The cost of 37 litres of regular at $1.044 is $38.63.So it basically costs the same to fuel a smart as it does a Yaris and they both travel the same no. of kilometres (using official city figures). It's just the psychological factor that you're paying more because you're using premium.
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#18 Carlitos

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:49 PM

I think that the EPA 2008 results for the 451 are quite realistic. In Europa (where I live) they say city 6.1 litre/100km and highway 4.1 litre/100km.But that's not realistic. When I check the MPG EPA results i think that's quite realistic. Although, a 2 pers. car should use less fuel i think. We have a lot of small 4 passenger cars that are more economical or have the same results as the smart. The Drag coefficient is quite high for the fortwo 0.37. Maye that is the reason?You can be fortunate to have a different gearbox.The 1st is shorter in the USA and the 5th is longer, so that longer gears, helps dropping the fuel consumption.

#19 Carlitos

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:52 PM

In Addition; for the 451 cdi they say in Europe that the smart uses 3.3 litres combined. (88grams of CO2) On the Dutch an German forum, the real life results are different: 4.5-5 liters/100km is more realistic. The 450 was more economical :-(

#20 lightey

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:47 PM

after 1,700km in my 451 I'm getting 6.77 lt. I don't drive economically, a lot of 120Km/hr-ish ... and some highway driving :P also, I'm on winter tyres and some of the driving was in snow. I'm happy with the consumption ... and I LOVE MY smart!!
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#21 Nextourer

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:55 PM

That's not bad!lol.. "a lot of 120km/hrish ... and some highway driving" hahaha.
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fogs, pods, leather, rubber mats, Brabus handbrake, LED lights



2010 Toyota Prius Technology Package

#22 spdickey

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:55 PM

Here's a quick chart to help us from the USA to figure out what MPG looks like vs l/100 km

Posted Image

Thanks to wikipedia
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#23 Nextourer

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:59 PM

Here's a quick chart to help us from the USA to figure out what MPG looks like vs l/100 km

Posted Image

Thanks to wikipedia

Are you sure it's the right mpg (i.e US not Imperial)?

cause 50mpg US is 4.7L/100km.
55mpg US is 4.3L/100km
60mpg US is 3.9L/100km

71mpg Imp. is 4.1L/100km.
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fogs, pods, leather, rubber mats, Brabus handbrake, LED lights



2010 Toyota Prius Technology Package

#24 spdickey

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 09:10 PM

Are you sure it's the right mpg (i.e US not Imperial)?

You're right, rechecked the source, and its imperial gallons. The Brits really don't make things easy with those Imperial Gallons.
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#25 lightey

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 07:06 PM

try this one:
Posted Image
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#26 Guest_notsmartyet_*

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 11:43 AM

Hate to say it, but I was getting 4.9 liters/100k in my old 95 geo metro (same as Suzuki Swift) with its similar sized 3cyl 1000cc engine. Didn't run hot either, and was terrifically dependable. Seems like the new 451 isn't doing significantly better with 2 fewer seats, less car, and 13 years of new technology to play with. And a lot higher price tag. The 451 sure seems like a great DD for urban areas, but regarding fuel economy I'd expect better.

#27 Carnut

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 01:06 PM

Hate to say it, but I was getting 4.9 liters/100k in my old 95 geo metro (same as Suzuki Swift) with its similar sized 3cyl 1000cc engine. Didn't run hot either, and was terrifically dependable. Seems like the new 451 isn't doing significantly better with 2 fewer seats, less car, and 13 years of new technology to play with. And a lot higher price tag. The 451 sure seems like a great DD for urban areas, but regarding fuel economy I'd expect better.

Yes, but I would venture to say that your Suzuki wasn't as clean. Also, which one would you prefer to get creamed in?

#28 Nextourer

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 02:57 PM

Hate to say it, but I was getting 4.9 liters/100k in my old 95 geo metro (same as Suzuki Swift) with its similar sized 3cyl 1000cc engine. Didn't run hot either, and was terrifically dependable. Seems like the new 451 isn't doing significantly better with 2 fewer seats, less car, and 13 years of new technology to play with. And a lot higher price tag. The 451 sure seems like a great DD for urban areas, but regarding fuel economy I'd expect better.

I can also say I get 4.3L/100km in my Prius on average in the summer (record tank is 3.9L/100km). (My lifetime is shown below)

But the smart will actually be our gas guzzler (if I end up getting one) but it is what it is and a smart is no Geo Metro. 2 people in a smart will be more comfortable than 2 people in a Metro.
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#29 mainefortwo

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 04:53 AM

If you would like to estimate your 2008 smart 451 milage and compare it to your current commuter car, the EPA has a nice estimator at:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

choose "compare side-by-side" in the box in the left corner

Model Year: 2008

Select Make: Mercedes-Benz

CARS: smart fortwo (pick convertible or coupe). This will bring up the EPA estimates for the smart fortwo based on the new 2008 formula based on a default value of 15,000 miles per year and a 55/45% ratio of city/hwy driving.

Choose "use your gas milage & annual prices" it brungs up the defaults, but you can change it your commute including the gas price in your area. Click: [Personalize] to un the calculation.

Note: As an option after selecting CARS for the default, you can choose "switch to metric" in support of the Canadian smart fans.

You can then select: "compare side-by-side" in the upper-right corner and see if your current commuter is available for comparison. For example I compared the smart fortwo coupe to my current 2004 Mazda RX-8 based on 20,000 miles per year, 35/65% - city/hwy:

2008 smart fortwo coupe
2008 EPA Combined: 38
Energy Impact Score: 12.0 barrels
Carbon Footprint: 6.5 tons CO2

2004 Mazda RX-8
2008 EPA Combined: 20
Energy Impact Score: 22.8 barrels
Carbon Footprint: 12.2

When I take delivery of my smart fortwo later this year it should cut my commuting costs in half and reduce my carbon footprint (the balance I can offset by purchasing more carbon offsets at http://www.carbonfund.org/ for a guilt free commute).

Have fun :D

#30 smarted_up

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Posted 26 January 2008 - 07:38 AM

hey, mainefortwo, thanks for this link. my results show that i save quite a bit, even though i upgrade to premium fuel....i continue to remain in awe of this fantastic vehicle.
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#31 angelNtexas

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 10:20 AM

That's a great link!! I was able to customize it with my current vehicle and current fuel prices to see how much I will actually save.
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#32 yellow451

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 09:41 AM

I got a bright yellow 451 Pure for my wife on Christmas eve. So far we have 2990 km on it. Mileage is dissappointing in winter weather.Last 3 tanks - 29 litres - 441 Km - 6.5 litres / 100km28.3 litres - 401 Km - 7.1 litres / 100km29.3 litres - 501 Km - 5.86 litres / 100kmAll had 70 % highway miles averaging 110 to 120 km.
Ordered my yellow 2008 pure ,but haven't got it yet

#33 smrtie

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 12:06 PM

Thanks for the great link mainefortwo.pedro
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#34 smrtie

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 12:26 PM

Using the US fuel economy calculator brings up an intersting anomaly - US fuel mileage estimates are lower than Canada's.The fueleconomy.gov site gives the fortwo a rating of 7.1 city and 5.7 highway. On the National Resources Canada site it is 5.9 city and 4.8 highway.I don't know how the two organizations calculate but that's quite a difference. If I go by the US figures I am an average driver but if I believe the Canadian numbers I can (and should) do better.Had the same problem when I had my 450. While Mike T was getting 2.9 all day long, all I could do was 5.0...the shame of it all. Maybe I was driving like an American all along :rolleyes: It will be interesting, with the much larger numbers of US owners, to see which country reflects real world driving. pedro
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#35 Mike T

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 12:37 PM

The US EPA recently revised their estimates downward, which has the effect of making everyone an "achiever", a sort of Bell curve for the masses. The USA and CDN versions if the cars are mechanically identical. In europe, most people are averaging in the mid-6s in their 71 HP 451s. The turbos are only very slightly worse (which makes me want a Brabus even more).

2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet, FlyingTiger map 380023_5.png
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A and Winter packages 542252_5.png
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed, other goodies 206221_5.png
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection, plan to restore 201066_5.png


#36 smrtie

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 12:54 PM

So I have the Yankees to thank for being an 'achiever'.....sorta makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over :-)Isn't the gearing for 5th higher on the US 451's? pedro
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#37 mainefortwo

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:19 PM

According to the "technical specifications" page on the smartusa web site, the US model 451 has a 5'th gear ratio of (0.707), I do not know what the ratio is on the Canadian 451?I'm glad smart enthusiasts have enjoyed the EPA milage comparator link. As has been pointed out above, the 2008 estimates are more conservative, but it is a useful tool for comparing your current daily driver to the smart fortwo. I am looking forward to cutting my commuter fuel costs in half! :)

#38 smrtie

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 04:12 PM

Checked the Canadian smart site and there is no technical specification section.My owner's handbook does not give the igear ratio numbers either.Anybody know what it is?pedro
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#39 JonTheDull

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 06:18 PM

I've had my smart 451 for about two weeks now and filled it up twice. Today I took a 189 mile highway drive and I got 43.5MPG (5.4l/100km), my tank was just around town going to work, about 1/3 highway 1/3 around town and got 36mph (6.5l/100km)
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#40 Peter

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 07:49 PM

Yesterday Vancouver to Whistler, wet roads, some snow, rain and wind. Some passed me but most did not. Winter tires, windy road and hwy speeds. 5.7 ltr. per 100 km. seems fine to me! Car has 1400 km. on it. Ran a little hot out of the box, but much better now. In my opinion it is a little premature to get too exited about milage at this early stage.I am still learning to drive the thing! Does anybody else sit at stops and foolishly try to shift up [droping it into what used to be first] just as you pull away?Peter

#41 smartboy

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 08:22 PM

Yes Peter, Your not the only one, I do it at least once per day, LOLJames
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#42 spdickey

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 09:14 PM

After two tanks of gas (91 AKI at Costco) I'm getting 37 MPG. That's US gallons, you can convert yourself to l/100 km. Passion coupe, mixed city, freeway driving, 50/50 one or two passengers.
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#43 pwven

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 11:25 AM

This may help http://www.spritmoni...d2d8468307fe1cb All the models and fuel type are there. pwven

#44 Carlitos

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 12:33 PM

So I have the Yankees to thank for being an 'achiever'.....sorta makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over :-) Isn't the gearing for 5th higher on the US 451's? pedro

Hi, yeah the 451 overseas (usa/ca) has a shorter 1st gear and a longer 5th gear. How many rpm does your smart have, when driving 100 and 120 km/h? The Europe version: 100 km/h 3100 rpm and 120 3500 rpm. In 1st gear the EU version can drive max 55 km/h, the US version around 50 km/h? I'm curious!

#45 Nextourer

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:18 PM

Hi, yeah the 451 overseas (usa/ca) has a shorter 1st gear and a longer 5th gear. How many rpm does your smart have, when driving 100 and 120 km/h? The Europe version: 100 km/h 3100 rpm and 120 3500 rpm. In 1st gear the EU version can drive max 55 km/h, the US version around 50 km/h? I'm curious!

On my test drive, I recall it was under 3,000rpm at 100km/h for sure. I made note of that because someone said it was 3,000ish at 100km/h and I thought that was a little high. Not that 2,800 or 2,900 isn't high but at least it's lower than 3,100.
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#46 Tom P.

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 03:42 PM

See my earlier post on this RPM subject... http://clubsmartcar....showtopic=13167 Tom


#47 smrtie

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 08:23 PM

Witnessed 100 km/h at 2,900 rpm, 120 km/h at 3,500 rpm today.pedro
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#48 dancote

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 04:02 PM

On my first fill-up, I got 37.9 MPG (6.2l/100km) in a mix of 50/50 City/Highway miles. I don't know how accurate that was because I have no way of knowing how full the tank was from the dealer. Can't update the MPG yet because I haven't re-filled. But on my way home today the last fuel quantity block disappeared and the little gas pump started to flash at 314 miles. At that point, the trip odometer stopped displaying mileage and showed .8 gallons remaining. Now that's cool! :rolleyes:
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#49 dancote

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 05:42 PM

My first fill-up produced just shy of 38 MPG. I discount that figure because I don't know how full the tank was from the dealership.Second fill-up today was 39.5 MPG and the mix of city/highway (40/60)and solo/passenger (60/40) were roughly the same as the first fill-up.Both fill-ups at COSTCO. Auto mode almost exclusively. Not a lead-foot but definitely not a hyper-miler.
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Traded in on a Brabus but swapped the yellow panels over
Wife now drives an '09 White/Silver Cabriolet

#50 Mike T

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 05:49 PM

About 5.9 L/100 km, that's the Transport Canada "City" rating. Pretty decent.

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