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451 Actual Realistic Mileage, Anyone?
BrianC
post Dec 15 2007 - 02:07 PM
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Hi All,

Some of you may remember me while I'm a newbie for others.
I was one of the first few 450 owners in Canada when it was first launched.
Managed to do 3.9L/100km over 46000km before I was forced to sell my car.
There is NOT one single day went by that I don't regret selling it sad.gif

Now I'm in the position to get myself another one but was so disheartened to find out that they no longer offer Diesel version on 451 and the gas version's published fuel consumption figures are down right terrible.

Are there any 451 owners out there who can report a more pleasing fuel consumption value?
Even if it's somewhere around 4 - 4.5L/100km combined, I'd pull the trigger and get myself into a new fortwo this X'mas.
If it's really as bad as published (5.9L/100km) or worse, then I guess I'll have to wait until they eventually bring a diesel version back or try to find a nice used one.

Any help are greatly appreciated! bowdown.gif

best regards,
BrianC


--------------------
Brian ... 2006 Black/Stream Green Pulse Cabrio (#6601) with Twister Green interior.
Extras: A/C, heated seats, sound upgrade, cabin filter, black triangular hub covers as well as full hub covers for winter steelies.

Used to own ... 2005 Silver/Black Passion Cabrio (#664) with Bungee Red interior.
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My old average was 3.8L/100km
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Mike T
post Dec 15 2007 - 05:22 PM
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If you got 3.9 with a 450 cdi, you should be around 4.9 with a 451. Most users in Europe so far are in the 6 range.


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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BrianC
post Dec 15 2007 - 07:29 PM
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Wow, that's scary. I don't consider myself outstanding doing 3.9L on the 450, just an average driver (sorry Mike T, I know you're in the 3.9L range too and I do not mean to put you in average grade, you are one of the few names I recall from a previous forum and your knowledge on the car is beyond superb!!), so I guess I'd really have to struggle to get into the below 5.0 when everyone else in Europe is doing 6'ish.

I might sweet talk/pay some money/arm wrestle my sales rep into letting me keep the test-drive overnite, and I'll try to burn a full tank of gas to see how good (or bad) I do on the 451.


--------------------
Brian ... 2006 Black/Stream Green Pulse Cabrio (#6601) with Twister Green interior.
Extras: A/C, heated seats, sound upgrade, cabin filter, black triangular hub covers as well as full hub covers for winter steelies.

Used to own ... 2005 Silver/Black Passion Cabrio (#664) with Bungee Red interior.
Extras: A/C, heated seats, retrofitted Softtouch, tach & clock pods, sound upgrade, cabin filter, black triangular hub covers for winter steelies, Euro signal lights with Fog Lights and Orange Slice as signal repeaters, factory iPod KIT.
My old average was 3.8L/100km
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Alex
post Dec 15 2007 - 09:39 PM
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When in France during Sept. we rented a turbo passion for 2800 Km. Not too good milage conditions, I would expect around 4.75 to 5.25 on my cdi. The new one's best tank was 6.10, worst 8.22 ! Avg 6.57. Not impressive that's for sure. Runs hot too, I wouldn't expect great life. Sure is peppy though. Get a used CDI and wait for the new model bugs to get addressed and the CDI to come to North America
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jamessmart
post Dec 16 2007 - 07:40 AM
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Good question - I still think in MPG, trying to convert thinking over to L per 100, I think metric for temp and distance OK!! I hve a 92 VW van that gets about 27 mpg so am looking forward to MUCH better milage on my new smart (If it ever arrives!) I will be recording and checking so will update!!
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jamessmart
post Dec 16 2007 - 07:41 AM
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Good question - I still think in MPG, trying to convert thinking over to L per 100, I think metric for temp and distance OK!! I hve a 92 VW van that gets about 27 mpg so am looking forward to MUCH better milage on my new smart (If it ever arrives!) I will be recording and checking so will update!!
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Mike T
post Dec 16 2007 - 03:07 PM
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6.57 is about spot on the spritmonitor average for the 84 HP Turbo. I would expect most 451 owners with the 71 HP engine to be running in the mid-6s too.

BrianC, I remember your new smart was yoinked by someone at Mercedes and they had to find you another one really quickly to save face! That was WAY back in 2004....

This post has been edited by Mike T: Dec 16 2007 - 03:08 PM


--------------------
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2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
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Mike T
post Dec 18 2007 - 09:22 PM
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This article indicates that a fortwo cdi will do 2.9 L/100 km in economical driving, though they call the motor crude and tractor-like in its operation. More interestingly perhaps, the 451 with the 61 HP engine (similar to the 71 but restricted by the mapping) can also do well: 3.7 L/100 km in economical driving, with a carbon dioxide emission of 88 g/km at that consumption level.


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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jamessmart
post Dec 29 2007 - 01:45 PM
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451 purchased Last Sat - First fill - last night - Dist - 477 Kms - Fill - 28.2 L - I figure around 50 mpg or 5.7 l/100km - rough guess, but for first tank - I'm happy.
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smartboy
post Dec 30 2007 - 06:01 AM
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I am almost done my first fill up ... I have done mostly highway driving and currently sit at 571 km and 3.0 litres left in the tank. I am going to fill up today and track tank number two.
James aka smartboy


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denisjolicoeur
post Jan 4 2008 - 12:31 PM
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I picked up mine on December 24th. Drove around town for a few days then took a trip from Winnipeg to Regina and MooseJaw (averaging 115 to 120 kph on the Trans Canada). Unfortunately I'm dealing with really bad conditions that negatively affect mileage on any vehicle. My wife and I are both lead-foots, extreme cold for a few days; -25'C, and then 70-90kph cross-winds on the highway for the trip back.

So far averaging 7.03L/100 kms (or 40.19 mpg imperial). Best tank was 6.61L/100 kms (or 42.76 mpg imperial). I'm sure this will do nothing but improve given better weather conditions and as the car breaks in and loosens up more.


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smartzuuk
post Jan 4 2008 - 09:56 PM
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I'm looking forward to seeing what people get with the gassers, especially those who just 'drive'. And to compare that against the cdi for the same driver.


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lehter
post Jan 6 2008 - 06:03 PM
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I too would be interested in a true cost per 100 Km comparison between the 450 and 451 considering the price of diesel vs the price of the recommended premium gas and the lower mileage of the 451. Anyone worked that out ?
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Mike T
post Jan 7 2008 - 11:42 AM
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You'd have to factor servicing costs in as well, which are to the 451's benefit.


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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glasslady
post Jan 8 2008 - 05:35 PM
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I have not seen anybody mentioning that the 451 uses Premium Gas. Which around here is 12 cent more than regular. That doesn't make it very economical.

If we were to buy another smart, we would wait for another CDI (hopefully the Bluetec).


--------------------
iSMART
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glasslady
post Jan 8 2008 - 05:37 PM
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Sorry, Lether, I have seen your reply too late.


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iSMART
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Nextourer
post Jan 9 2008 - 08:30 PM
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If you guys are interested, I was working out the difference in fuel cost between a Yaris and a fortwo.

Given that they travel ~550kms on one "tank" of gas in the city (33 litres on the smart, 37 litres on the Yaris...so both cars have 5 litres left in their tank), the cost of 33 litres of premium at $1.164 is $38.41. The cost of 37 litres of regular at $1.044 is $38.63.

So it basically costs the same to fuel a smart as it does a Yaris and they both travel the same no. of kilometres (using official city figures). It's just the psychological factor that you're paying more because you're using premium.


--------------------
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2008 smart fortwo passion coupé - SOLD
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Carlitos
post Jan 15 2008 - 02:49 PM
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I think that the EPA 2008 results for the 451 are quite realistic. In Europa (where I live) they say city 6.1 litre/100km and highway 4.1 litre/100km.

But that's not realistic. When I check the MPG EPA results i think that's quite realistic. Although, a 2 pers. car should use less fuel i think.
We have a lot of small 4 passenger cars that are more economical or have the same results as the smart. The Drag coefficient is quite high for the fortwo 0.37. Maye that is the reason?

You can be fortunate to have a different gearbox.The 1st is shorter in the USA and the 5th is longer, so that longer gears, helps dropping the fuel consumption.
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Carlitos
post Jan 15 2008 - 02:52 PM
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In Addition; for the 451 cdi they say in Europe that the smart uses 3.3 litres combined. (88grams of CO2) On the Dutch an German forum, the real life results are different: 4.5-5 liters/100km is more realistic. The 450 was more economical :-(
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lightey
post Jan 15 2008 - 08:47 PM
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after 1,700km in my 451 I'm getting 6.77 lt. I don't drive economically, a lot of 120Km/hr-ish ... and some highway driving tongue.gif
also, I'm on winter tyres and some of the driving was in snow. I'm happy with the consumption ... and I LOVE MY smart!!


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Nextourer
post Jan 15 2008 - 08:55 PM
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That's not bad!

lol.. "a lot of 120km/hrish ... and some highway driving" hahaha.


--------------------
2005 Toyota Prius Premium Package

2008 smart fortwo passion coupé - SOLD
fogs, pods, leather, rubber mats, Brabus handbrake, LED lights



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spdickey
post Jan 15 2008 - 08:55 PM
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Here's a quick chart to help us from the USA to figure out what MPG looks like vs l/100 km



Thanks to wikipedia


--------------------
Steve Dickey
smart Across America
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Santa Rosa to New York City
4000 miles April 2006
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Nextourer
post Jan 15 2008 - 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (spdickey @ Jan 15 2008 - 08:55 PM) *
Here's a quick chart to help us from the USA to figure out what MPG looks like vs l/100 km



Thanks to wikipedia


Are you sure it's the right mpg (i.e US not Imperial)?

cause 50mpg US is 4.7L/100km.
55mpg US is 4.3L/100km
60mpg US is 3.9L/100km

71mpg Imp. is 4.1L/100km.


--------------------
2005 Toyota Prius Premium Package

2008 smart fortwo passion coupé - SOLD
fogs, pods, leather, rubber mats, Brabus handbrake, LED lights



2010 Toyota Prius Technology Package
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spdickey
post Jan 15 2008 - 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (Nextourer @ Jan 15 2008 - 08:59 PM) *
Are you sure it's the right mpg (i.e US not Imperial)?

You're right, rechecked the source, and its imperial gallons. The Brits really don't make things easy with those Imperial Gallons.


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lightey
post Jan 16 2008 - 07:06 PM
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try this one:


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Guest_notsmartyet_*
post Jan 18 2008 - 11:43 AM
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Hate to say it, but I was getting 4.9 liters/100k in my old 95 geo metro (same as Suzuki Swift) with its similar sized 3cyl 1000cc engine. Didn't run hot either, and was terrifically dependable. Seems like the new 451 isn't doing significantly better with 2 fewer seats, less car, and 13 years of new technology to play with. And a lot higher price tag. The 451 sure seems like a great DD for urban areas, but regarding fuel economy I'd expect better.
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Carnut
post Jan 18 2008 - 01:06 PM
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QUOTE (notsmartyet @ Jan 18 2008 - 02:43 PM) *
Hate to say it, but I was getting 4.9 liters/100k in my old 95 geo metro (same as Suzuki Swift) with its similar sized 3cyl 1000cc engine. Didn't run hot either, and was terrifically dependable. Seems like the new 451 isn't doing significantly better with 2 fewer seats, less car, and 13 years of new technology to play with. And a lot higher price tag. The 451 sure seems like a great DD for urban areas, but regarding fuel economy I'd expect better.


Yes, but I would venture to say that your Suzuki wasn't as clean. Also, which one would you prefer to get creamed in?
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Nextourer
post Jan 18 2008 - 02:57 PM
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QUOTE (notsmartyet @ Jan 18 2008 - 11:43 AM) *
Hate to say it, but I was getting 4.9 liters/100k in my old 95 geo metro (same as Suzuki Swift) with its similar sized 3cyl 1000cc engine. Didn't run hot either, and was terrifically dependable. Seems like the new 451 isn't doing significantly better with 2 fewer seats, less car, and 13 years of new technology to play with. And a lot higher price tag. The 451 sure seems like a great DD for urban areas, but regarding fuel economy I'd expect better.


I can also say I get 4.3L/100km in my Prius on average in the summer (record tank is 3.9L/100km). (My lifetime is shown below)

But the smart will actually be our gas guzzler (if I end up getting one) but it is what it is and a smart is no Geo Metro. 2 people in a smart will be more comfortable than 2 people in a Metro.


--------------------
2005 Toyota Prius Premium Package

2008 smart fortwo passion coupé - SOLD
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mainefortwo
post Jan 26 2008 - 04:53 AM
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If you would like to estimate your 2008 smart 451 milage and compare it to your current commuter car, the EPA has a nice estimator at:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

choose "compare side-by-side" in the box in the left corner

Model Year: 2008

Select Make: Mercedes-Benz

CARS: smart fortwo (pick convertible or coupe). This will bring up the EPA estimates for the smart fortwo based on the new 2008 formula based on a default value of 15,000 miles per year and a 55/45% ratio of city/hwy driving.

Choose "use your gas milage & annual prices" it brungs up the defaults, but you can change it your commute including the gas price in your area. Click: [Personalize] to un the calculation.

Note: As an option after selecting CARS for the default, you can choose "switch to metric" in support of the Canadian smart fans.

You can then select: "compare side-by-side" in the upper-right corner and see if your current commuter is available for comparison. For example I compared the smart fortwo coupe to my current 2004 Mazda RX-8 based on 20,000 miles per year, 35/65% - city/hwy:

2008 smart fortwo coupe
2008 EPA Combined: 38
Energy Impact Score: 12.0 barrels
Carbon Footprint: 6.5 tons CO2

2004 Mazda RX-8
2008 EPA Combined: 20
Energy Impact Score: 22.8 barrels
Carbon Footprint: 12.2

When I take delivery of my smart fortwo later this year it should cut my commuting costs in half and reduce my carbon footprint (the balance I can offset by purchasing more carbon offsets at http://www.carbonfund.org/ for a guilt free commute).

Have fun biggrin.gif
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smarted_up
post Jan 26 2008 - 07:38 AM
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hey, mainefortwo, thanks for this link. my results show that i save quite a bit, even though i upgrade to premium fuel.

...i continue to remain in awe of this fantastic vehicle.


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angelNtexas
post Jan 30 2008 - 10:20 AM
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That's a great link!! I was able to customize it with my current vehicle and current fuel prices to see how much I will actually save.


--------------------
~ I used to have a handle on life ...
Then it broke off! ~
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yellow451
post Feb 2 2008 - 09:41 AM
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I got a bright yellow 451 Pure for my wife on Christmas eve. So far we have 2990 km on it.

Mileage is dissappointing in winter weather.
Last 3 tanks -
29 litres - 441 Km - 6.5 litres / 100km
28.3 litres - 401 Km - 7.1 litres / 100km
29.3 litres - 501 Km - 5.86 litres / 100km

All had 70 % highway miles averaging 110 to 120 km.


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Ordered my yellow 2008 pure ,but haven't got it yet
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smrtie
post Feb 2 2008 - 12:06 PM
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Thanks for the great link mainefortwo.

pedro


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2009 Honda Fit
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smrtie
post Feb 2 2008 - 12:26 PM
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Using the US fuel economy calculator brings up an intersting anomaly - US fuel mileage estimates are lower than Canada's.

The fueleconomy.gov site gives the fortwo a rating of 7.1 city and 5.7 highway. On the National Resources Canada site it is 5.9 city and 4.8 highway.

I don't know how the two organizations calculate but that's quite a difference.

If I go by the US figures I am an average driver but if I believe the Canadian numbers I can (and should) do better.

Had the same problem when I had my 450. While Mike T was getting 2.9 all day long, all I could do was 5.0...the shame of it all. Maybe I was driving like an American all along rolleyes.gif

It will be interesting, with the much larger numbers of US owners, to see which country reflects real world driving.

pedro


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Mike T
post Feb 2 2008 - 12:37 PM
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The US EPA recently revised their estimates downward, which has the effect of making everyone an "achiever", a sort of Bell curve for the masses. The USA and CDN versions if the cars are mechanically identical. In europe, most people are averaging in the mid-6s in their 71 HP 451s. The turbos are only very slightly worse (which makes me want a Brabus even more).


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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smrtie
post Feb 2 2008 - 12:54 PM
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So I have the Yankees to thank for being an 'achiever'.....sorta makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over :-)

Isn't the gearing for 5th higher on the US 451's?

pedro


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mainefortwo
post Feb 2 2008 - 01:19 PM
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According to the "technical specifications" page on the smartusa web site, the US model 451 has a 5'th gear ratio of (0.707), I do not know what the ratio is on the Canadian 451?

I'm glad smart enthusiasts have enjoyed the EPA milage comparator link. As has been pointed out above, the 2008 estimates are more conservative, but it is a useful tool for comparing your current daily driver to the smart fortwo. I am looking forward to cutting my commuter fuel costs in half!

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smrtie
post Feb 2 2008 - 04:12 PM
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Checked the Canadian smart site and there is no technical specification section.

My owner's handbook does not give the igear ratio numbers either.

Anybody know what it is?

pedro


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JonTheDull
post Feb 2 2008 - 06:18 PM
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From: Bergen County, NJ, USA
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I've had my smart 451 for about two weeks now and filled it up twice. Today I took a 189 mile highway drive and I got 43.5MPG (5.4l/100km), my tank was just around town going to work, about 1/3 highway 1/3 around town and got 36mph (6.5l/100km)


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2008 smart Fortwo Passion. Red / Black, Tan interior.
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 SLT Club Cab 360V8
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Peter
post Feb 2 2008 - 07:49 PM
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Yesterday Vancouver to Whistler, wet roads, some snow, rain and wind. Some passed me but most did not. Winter tires, windy road and hwy speeds. 5.7 ltr. per 100 km. seems fine to me!

Car has 1400 km. on it. Ran a little hot out of the box, but much better now. In my opinion it is a little premature to get too exited about milage at this early stage.

I am still learning to drive the thing! Does anybody else sit at stops and foolishly try to shift up [droping it into what used to be first] just as you pull away?

Peter
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smartboy
post Feb 2 2008 - 08:22 PM
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Yes Peter, Your not the only one, I do it at least once per day, LOL
James


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VISIT www.jaxjanssen.com for my award winning sci-fi children and "tweens" epric adventure series, now available online and all good bookstores near you. James H Gillam

FORMER 2005 & 2008 PASSION SMART OWNER but still a smart fan!
Driving a Mini Cooper S Cabrio model ... looking forward to what smart has in store.
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spdickey
post Feb 2 2008 - 09:14 PM
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After two tanks of gas (91 AKI at Costco) I'm getting 37 MPG. That's US gallons, you can convert yourself to l/100 km. Passion coupe, mixed city, freeway driving, 50/50 one or two passengers.


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Steve Dickey
smart Across America
Rally Leader
Santa Rosa to New York City
4000 miles April 2006
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pwven
post Feb 3 2008 - 11:25 AM
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This may help http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/?SID=316b756...d2d8468307fe1cb
All the models and fuel type are there.
pwven
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Carlitos
post Feb 5 2008 - 12:33 PM
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QUOTE (smrtie @ Feb 2 2008 - 09:54 PM) *
So I have the Yankees to thank for being an 'achiever'.....sorta makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over :-)

Isn't the gearing for 5th higher on the US 451's?

pedro


Hi, yeah the 451 overseas (usa/ca) has a shorter 1st gear and a longer 5th gear. How many rpm does your smart have, when driving 100 and 120 km/h?

The Europe version: 100 km/h 3100 rpm and 120 3500 rpm. In 1st gear the EU version can drive max 55 km/h, the US version around 50 km/h?

I'm curious!
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Nextourer
post Feb 5 2008 - 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (Carlitos @ Feb 5 2008 - 12:33 PM) *
Hi, yeah the 451 overseas (usa/ca) has a shorter 1st gear and a longer 5th gear. How many rpm does your smart have, when driving 100 and 120 km/h?

The Europe version: 100 km/h 3100 rpm and 120 3500 rpm. In 1st gear the EU version can drive max 55 km/h, the US version around 50 km/h?

I'm curious!

On my test drive, I recall it was under 3,000rpm at 100km/h for sure. I made note of that because someone said it was 3,000ish at 100km/h and I thought that was a little high. Not that 2,800 or 2,900 isn't high but at least it's lower than 3,100.


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2005 Toyota Prius Premium Package

2008 smart fortwo passion coupé - SOLD
fogs, pods, leather, rubber mats, Brabus handbrake, LED lights



2010 Toyota Prius Technology Package
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Tom P.
post Feb 5 2008 - 03:42 PM
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See my earlier post on this RPM subject...

http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?showtopic=13167

Tom


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smrtie
post Feb 5 2008 - 08:23 PM
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Witnessed 100 km/h at 2,900 rpm, 120 km/h at 3,500 rpm today.

pedro


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2009 Saturn Astra XR
2009 Honda Fit
2008 Passion Cabrio
1994 Ford Ranger
1975 Triumph TR6
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dancote
post Feb 6 2008 - 04:02 PM
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On my first fill-up, I got 37.9 MPG (6.2l/100km) in a mix of 50/50 City/Highway miles. I don't know how accurate that was because I have no way of knowing how full the tank was from the dealer.

Can't update the MPG yet because I haven't re-filled. But on my way home today the last fuel quantity block disappeared and the little gas pump started to flash at 314 miles. At that point, the trip odometer stopped displaying mileage and showed .8 gallons remaining. Now that's cool! rolleyes.gif


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Delivered 1/23/08
Yellow/Black Passion, Comfort Package, Premium Sound, Fog Lamps, Alarm
Traded in on a Brabus but swapped the yellow panels over
Wife now drives an '09 White/Silver Cabriolet
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dancote
post Feb 10 2008 - 05:42 PM
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My first fill-up produced just shy of 38 MPG. I discount that figure because I don't know how full the tank was from the dealership.
Second fill-up today was 39.5 MPG and the mix of city/highway (40/60)and solo/passenger (60/40) were roughly the same as the first fill-up.
Both fill-ups at COSTCO. Auto mode almost exclusively. Not a lead-foot but definitely not a hyper-miler.


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Delivered 1/23/08
Yellow/Black Passion, Comfort Package, Premium Sound, Fog Lamps, Alarm
Traded in on a Brabus but swapped the yellow panels over
Wife now drives an '09 White/Silver Cabriolet
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Mike T
post Feb 10 2008 - 05:49 PM
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Ordered our first smart in 2002!


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About 5.9 L/100 km, that's the Transport Canada "City" rating. Pretty decent.


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2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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