Why is this ad here?

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Glow Plug/heater Circuit A Malfunction- Po380, with removal instructions.
smart142
post May 15 2008 - 07:54 PM
Post #1


moderator


Group: Global Moderators*
Posts: 6,931
Joined: May 25th, 05
From: Lambeth/London Ontario Canada
Member No.: 35



This is what popped up on mine this morning. The glow plug light stayed on a long time and then went out.
Next start it did the same and then the check engine light came on. Scan gauge showed the code above.
Thankfully the warmer weather has arrived and the starts are pretty easy. Not an urgent problem.
Looks like I will be replacing the glow plugs in the near future.
Am I the first to have this happen?


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)Brabus paddle shift wheel/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/rear brake led's/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mike T
post May 15 2008 - 08:03 PM
Post #2


Ordered our first smart in 2002!


Group: Directors
Posts: 27,652
Joined: May 24th, 05
From: Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN
Member No.: 5



I forgot, how many km are on your car? I think there's been the odd failure under warranty. the part is probably a fair whack cheaper in Germany (hint hint).


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
smart142
post May 16 2008 - 03:19 AM
Post #3


moderator


Group: Global Moderators*
Posts: 6,931
Joined: May 25th, 05
From: Lambeth/London Ontario Canada
Member No.: 35



I'm at 114,000 kms . I'll give the dealer a call to find out the cost. Thanks Mike!


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)Brabus paddle shift wheel/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/rear brake led's/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
deezle
post Jan 17 2009 - 12:09 PM
Post #4





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 3,047
Joined: May 30th, 05
From: an island in the Pacific
Member No.: 56



Has anybody actually changed a glow plug yet? Mine is now showing this code and the same symptoms ---- light comes back on after starting, or stays on before starting. It takes several starts to get it to go off. Of course this happened 7 hours after the warranty expired. 72,000 kms.

This post has been edited by deezle: Jan 17 2009 - 12:23 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rog Man
post Jan 17 2009 - 12:32 PM
Post #5





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 1,228
Joined: Apr 24th, 07
From: Canada
Member No.: 2,861



I thought the warranty was good too 80,000 km's?


--------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2006 Black/silver Pulse Coupe,
Smart cup holder,two cd tray sets,softouch,smart premium sound package,Rev counter & clock,Smart mud flaps,Raised rear view mirror,A/C,Turn signals and park lites in headlite cluster,LED interior lites, LED side markers with blink mod,Fram pollen filter (CF8249),Cruise control,Super white headlite bulbs,Wiper arm spray nozzel,Vertical wipe mod,DRL city lites mod,Home made camo cargo cover,Passenger side window controller,Matching fabric armrest,A real horn,Lockable drawer,MDC Drivelock,Handy base platform, Checker plate footrest,chrome exhaust tip,




Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
deezle
post Jan 17 2009 - 12:41 PM
Post #6





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 3,047
Joined: May 30th, 05
From: an island in the Pacific
Member No.: 56



QUOTE (The Rog Man @ Jan 17 2009 - 02:32 PM) *
I thought the warranty was good too 80,000 km's?


Or 4 years, whichever comes first. But unfortunately not 4 years and seven hours.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mike T
post Jan 17 2009 - 06:35 PM
Post #7


Ordered our first smart in 2002!


Group: Directors
Posts: 27,652
Joined: May 24th, 05
From: Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN
Member No.: 5



This is the proverbial "the car was programmed to go off at 4 years and 7 hours" story.

Mine at least had the decency to wait over 4000 km past warranty expiration before definitively lunching its clutch actuator wink.gif


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Speedie
post Jan 17 2009 - 07:40 PM
Post #8


Former Chief cook and bottle washer


Group: Administrators
Posts: 6,829
Joined: Oct 14th, 05
From: Victoria
Member No.: 375



Did some digging Deez - apparently they are the same glow plug as the A class - great if you are in Europe - they are a standard pencil type (looks like a pen with a nut at the top). From some Mercedes sites - driving with it defective will mean it starts really rough but other than that should not be an issue for anything else (okay you will look like you have a remap for smoke).

Shouldn't be too hard to fix - I think FastEddy is back soon too if the dealer is trying to finance several trips to some place of of your repairs.

Cheers,
Cameron


--------------------
"Lucy" 2006 Passion - Ruby Red - sunroof - black tridion
"NuBlu" - 2006 Pulse - Star Blue - black tridion - in need of some TLC
1994 Jeep YJ
1990 Dodge D250
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
la moule
post Jan 18 2009 - 06:17 AM
Post #9





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 84
Joined: Oct 7th, 06
From: St-Sauveur Québec
Member No.: 1,677



QUOTE (smart142 @ May 15 2008 - 10:54 PM) *
This is what popped up on mine this morning. The glow plug light stayed on a long time and then went out.
Next start it did the same and then the check engine light came on. Scan gauge showed the code above.
Thankfully the warmer weather has arrived and the starts are pretty easy. Not an urgent problem.
Looks like I will be replacing the glow plugs in the near future.
Am I the first to have this happen?



2 people have this problem right now in the Quebec smart club, me and Gandalf.....

I am at 157,000 km and Gandalf at 130,000 (around)

let's keep in touch or practice your french in our new website (Visit My Website or the forum (Visit My Website))


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
maxwell smart
post Jan 18 2009 - 07:48 AM
Post #10





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 117
Joined: Aug 3rd, 05
From: Ontario
Member No.: 211



Can this be a battery related problem? Maybe a 4 years old battery does not have enough juice (voltage) in the cold to heat the glow plugs and operate all the electronics. Do anyone have the same problem with a new battery? I am going to replace my 4 years old battery soon. When it's very cold (-20 c) the ABS and ESP lights stay on, the Smart is very hard to start and the three bars of death comes on once. My other Smart (2 years old) does not have any of this problem at all.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
la moule
post Jan 18 2009 - 09:45 AM
Post #11





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 84
Joined: Oct 7th, 06
From: St-Sauveur Québec
Member No.: 1,677



i've put yesterday a new battery (Optima red top 34/78) and this morning (-18) my smart had still difficulties to start and the same thing happened with the glow plug problem described earlier...

QUOTE
Smart (MCC) CABRIO 0.8 CDI (S1OLC1) 03.2001 - 01.2004 30 kW / 41 PS 799 / 3


can be fitted with the following original BERU brand product(s):

Product Type Code designation Type designation Order No.
Glow Plug GN GN 015 - 0 100 226 392 15668
Installation Information: Cover glow plug thread and -shaft with mounting grease, (GKF 01 - Order No. 0 890 300 034), before fitting to enable easier removal and prevent corrosion.
Tightening Torque [Nm] 15
Failure Moment [Nm] 35
Port Type Ø 4 mm
Cone Pitch 63°
Fitting Depth [mm] 40
Overall Length [mm] 121
Thread Size M 10x1,25
Spanner Size 10 mm
Glow Plug Type Pencil-type Glow Plug
Glow Plug Type After-glow capable
Rated Current [A] 14
Voltage [V] 11


This post has been edited by la moule: Jan 18 2009 - 09:45 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
deezle
post Jan 18 2009 - 10:11 AM
Post #12





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 3,047
Joined: May 30th, 05
From: an island in the Pacific
Member No.: 56



Ha!! smile.gif Great minds think alike. I have been thinking of a new battery for a few weeks, partly because of the peace of mind of a maintenance-free no-horrors-for-the-wife starting for another 5 years or so. So as I was assessing the car's behavior and watching the dash displays very carefully, I noticed the display brighten and dimming. Might be a voltage thing behind all of this, I thought. So in goes a new Optima Red Top 34/78 from Costco but alas things are still the same. Speedie's generous lending of his scanguage confirmed that it is indeed the PO 380 glow plug malfunction.

The specifications in the previous post state "Glow plug type: After-glow capable" I wonder if this means that the plug can remain on for a short while after the engine is started without burning out. I have immediately shut it off each time if the plug light stays on because I don't want to burn out the two remaining good plugs. I've also wondered if the heat from a plug, in combination with the heat from combustion, could scorch a section in the cylinders.

This post has been edited by deezle: Jan 18 2009 - 10:12 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
la moule
post Jan 18 2009 - 10:40 AM
Post #13





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 84
Joined: Oct 7th, 06
From: St-Sauveur Québec
Member No.: 1,677



So let's on monday how much will be the cost of replacing those at the dealer (mine is 72$/hour) (Franke in Ste-Agathe des monts, Quebec)


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bilgladstone
post Jan 18 2009 - 01:10 PM
Post #14


This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


Group: Regular Members
Posts: 12,116
Joined: Jun 12th, 05
From: Kelowna, BC
Member No.: 95



From MBCA:
QUOTE
Diesels: Most of the Mercedes diesels are very robust and do not require much internal service for 250K miles. [...] Expect a set of injectors to last at least 100K miles and glow plugs typically last 75K miles.
Our Canadian smarts are reaching the normal end-of-life period for these parts.

B sun.gif


--------------------
Join more than 210 smarties on the map! Where are you? CLICK HERE to add your marker!
::
[
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fred J
post Jan 18 2009 - 02:32 PM
Post #15





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 1,156
Joined: May 22nd, 05
Member No.: 4



QUOTE (bilgladstone @ Jan 18 2009 - 01:10 PM) *
From MBCA:Our Canadian smarts are reaching the normal end-of-life period for these parts.

B sun.gif


I don't know how or why these arbitary numbers are thrown out and only act to put worry and fear into owners.

"end-of-life period" I wouldn't expect any failure based of such low milages alone.

Looking for 1/2 million easily without a failure and fully expect to reach it and many more miles after that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bilgladstone
post Jan 18 2009 - 03:08 PM
Post #16


This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


Group: Regular Members
Posts: 12,116
Joined: Jun 12th, 05
From: Kelowna, BC
Member No.: 95



Worn out is not failure dunno.gif Everything has a service life that ends sometime. You're right, Fred: careful use, conscientious maintenance, mild climate, choice of lubricants, garage protection, etc. are all factors that may extend service life.

I also expect longer replacement intervals than MBCA notes suggest. I had a Datsun diesel pickup that went over 250,000 miles without issues, and I hope for similar performance - or better - from my wee smartie.

B sun.gif


--------------------
Join more than 210 smarties on the map! Where are you? CLICK HERE to add your marker!
::
[
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mike T
post Jan 18 2009 - 06:11 PM
Post #17


Ordered our first smart in 2002!


Group: Directors
Posts: 27,652
Joined: May 24th, 05
From: Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN
Member No.: 5



Mercedes-Benz Club of America??


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
gandalf
post Jan 19 2009 - 06:15 PM
Post #18





Group: New Members
Posts: 6
Joined: Jul 14th, 07
Member No.: 3,863



Well, I was able to get the Glow Plugs out tonight !

First you need to see where they are:




From the top, front of the engine first:








They are hard to see, and harder to get at ! huh.gif

But by prying, cutting some tie-wraps and removing a bolt near the front you can get more access space. Also there is a plastic tray that can be moved a little.

Now, to remove the electric connection you need to lift it strait-up. I used pliers, and patience...

So this is it ! They are small !




You can check them with an ohmmeter/continuity tester.
Normal reading is under an ohm. My bad ones read ~400 and ~1600 ohms.

Good one:




Bad one...




To remove them you need => Nerves of steel ($$$$ if you miss), patience (30 min) and a good shot of penetrating oil.
OR BETTER YET => Let the MB guys do it in ~1.5 hr.
WARNING => Remove dust, junk, bugs with compressed air before working !!! You don't want to have foreign material into these holes !

The oil is used is => Gunk Liquid Wrench Deodorized Super Penetrant. CTire have it.



At first I was not able to move them, but with some penetrating oil they moved.
The sound while unscrewing is like "Squirck-Squirck" but torque is manageable.
Also, at the end, you need to pull them out vertically with pliers, as they tend to stick in.

Here they are !



I made two tests; Resistivity and 12 Vdc check:

Resistivity:

Cyl #1 => ~400 ohms => Bad
Cyl #2 => ~1600 ohms => Bad
Cyl #3 => ~0.6 ohm => Good !

12 Vdc check:

Cyl #1 => Cold
Cyl #2 => Cold
Cyl #3 => Rising Sun !



..


I searched for the part and found some aftermarket numbers:

Beru GN015
Champion CH228
Delphi HDS387


Hope this help !



Gandalf

This post has been edited by gandalf: Jan 19 2009 - 06:47 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mike T
post Jan 19 2009 - 06:18 PM
Post #19


Ordered our first smart in 2002!


Group: Directors
Posts: 27,652
Joined: May 24th, 05
From: Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN
Member No.: 5



Merci René!


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
deezle
post Jan 19 2009 - 10:27 PM
Post #20





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 3,047
Joined: May 30th, 05
From: an island in the Pacific
Member No.: 56



Excellent post, gandalf!
I didn't expect them to be so long and thin. Did you source your replacements yet? Prices?

This post has been edited by deezle: Jan 19 2009 - 10:28 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Duck
post Jan 20 2009 - 04:03 AM
Post #21


Crazy Quacker


Group: Regular Members
Posts: 9,209
Joined: Jul 30th, 05
From: Ontario, Canada
Member No.: 201



One of the best and most informative posts here. Thanks for your work, and documentation on this! Sounds like this would be a good way for each of us to test our glow plugs at home (using the multimeter).

-Iain


--------------------
2006 smart fortwo cdi Nosedive.... Back up and running!
2010 Toyota Gen3 Prius Normandy (N7) - Hybrid Synergy Drive active!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
smart142
post Jan 20 2009 - 05:34 AM
Post #22


moderator


Group: Global Moderators*
Posts: 6,931
Joined: May 25th, 05
From: Lambeth/London Ontario Canada
Member No.: 35



Excellent post! I still have to change mine and I'm glad someone has shown the way.
The local smart techs say that they couldn't get one out and stripped it. Ended up pulling the head. Scared the heck out of me.
A couple of questions. Did you coat the threads of the replacement glow plugs with never seize before replacing? and is there a correct torque for setting the plugs?


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)Brabus paddle shift wheel/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/rear brake led's/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
gandalf
post Jan 20 2009 - 10:19 AM
Post #23





Group: New Members
Posts: 6
Joined: Jul 14th, 07
Member No.: 3,863



I will change the plugs tonight.

Yes you need to apply anti-seize on the treads for the next time (No anti-seize originaly).

I found a local source of BERU GN015 at $30.91 each, stock in Montreal.

Torque is specified at 10-15 NM.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
smart142
post Jan 20 2009 - 12:55 PM
Post #24


moderator


Group: Global Moderators*
Posts: 6,931
Joined: May 25th, 05
From: Lambeth/London Ontario Canada
Member No.: 35



Thanks! and good luck tonight!


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)Brabus paddle shift wheel/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/rear brake led's/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
gandalf
post Jan 20 2009 - 02:34 PM
Post #25





Group: New Members
Posts: 6
Joined: Jul 14th, 07
Member No.: 3,863



There is another way to test the Glow Plugs, that doesn't require any removal of parts.

If someone has access to a DC Clamp meter it is possible to check that each plug sink current. Just clip the meter on each wire.
It's so easy that it could be done during smart meets. Then everyone will know the state of their plugs.


I say that because it's almost impossible to burn two plugs at the same time !
I think the "Check Engine" goes off after TWO bad plugs, not one. My guess.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bilgladstone
post Jan 20 2009 - 02:55 PM
Post #26


This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


Group: Regular Members
Posts: 12,116
Joined: Jun 12th, 05
From: Kelowna, BC
Member No.: 95



QUOTE (gandalf @ Jan 20 2009 - 02:34 PM) *
There is another way to test the Glow Plugs, that doesn't require any removal of parts.

If someone has access to a DC Clamp meter it is possible to check that each plug sink current. Just clip the meter on each wire.
It's so easy that it could be done during smart meets. Then everyone will know the state of their plugs.


I say that because it's almost impossible to burn two plugs at the same time !
I think the "Check Engine" goes off after TWO bad plugs, not one. My guess.

That's a great tip, gandalf! thumbup.gif My son-in-law is an electrician and I'm sure he has one I can borrow!

Bil sun.gif


--------------------
Join more than 210 smarties on the map! Where are you? CLICK HERE to add your marker!
::
[
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2seatragtop
post Jan 20 2009 - 03:23 PM
Post #27





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 557
Joined: May 10th, 06
From: West Island, Montreal
Member No.: 894



I believe you are right Bil as I had one dud plug just at the startof winter and had no "check engine" light. Starting in the cold was however as bad as the VW rabbit with a dud plug!


--------------------
Options: Blue/Black Pulse cabrio with electric door mirrors, speaker option.
Mods: Front Mudflaps, Rad protection, MP3 cable, Sunglasses holder, Short mirror mount, Remap (Tech9 Stage II), Sprinter badge, Black slices, UK rear light clusters, Euro & Cdn front turn signals, Wiper mounted spray, Painted Brake drums, MDC Cruise Control, Scangauge II, Sirius Satellite Radio, Colour change to Apple Green, Full Eurobum, Rebadged with raised chrome "SMART" and "CDI",
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bilgladstone
post Jan 20 2009 - 04:52 PM
Post #28


This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


Group: Regular Members
Posts: 12,116
Joined: Jun 12th, 05
From: Kelowna, BC
Member No.: 95



QUOTE (2seatragtop @ Jan 20 2009 - 03:23 PM) *
I believe you are right Bil as I had one dud plug just at the startof winter and had no "check engine" light. Starting in the cold was however as bad as the VW rabbit with a dud plug!

Correct attribution for this notion is gandalf bowdown.gif


--------------------
Join more than 210 smarties on the map! Where are you? CLICK HERE to add your marker!
::
[
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Speedie
post Jan 20 2009 - 10:43 PM
Post #29


Former Chief cook and bottle washer


Group: Administrators
Posts: 6,829
Joined: Oct 14th, 05
From: Victoria
Member No.: 375



Good Post Gandalf -

Think Princess Auto has the clamp ammeters - CT as well.

Did some more reading out on the web and elsewhere.

Also there is a special socket for the glow plugs - basically a universal jointed long 10mm.

Common issue on the MB and some other cars is the plugs getting in there pretty tight - you are supposed to soak them in penetrating oil first - and don't let Clyde (reference to a orangutan) try to muscle them out - if it doesn't come use more oil and wait. They also make a puller if they get really locked in (it is just a slip fit after you get the threads loose) - so you don't bust them off.

Apparently it is 50/50 on whether or not to use never sieze - so I would.

Cheers,
Cameron

This post has been edited by Speedie: Jan 20 2009 - 10:43 PM


--------------------
"Lucy" 2006 Passion - Ruby Red - sunroof - black tridion
"NuBlu" - 2006 Pulse - Star Blue - black tridion - in need of some TLC
1994 Jeep YJ
1990 Dodge D250
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
deezle
post Jan 21 2009 - 09:58 AM
Post #30





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 3,047
Joined: May 30th, 05
From: an island in the Pacific
Member No.: 56



The engine light does in fact come on if only one glow plug fails.
I just had mine done at the dealership. The work order states a "current fault code P1481 -- glow plug failure". They checked the glow system wiring integrity (OK) then tested all three glow plugs (presumably while still in place) and determined #3 plug needed renewal. The heater plug 660-159-02-01 was $41.75 and the labor was $86.85. They might have given me a small break on the labor charge because it was only 7 hours off warranty.
Overall, this is not a big-ticket item for those who don't have a multimeter nor feel inclined to tackle the job themselves. On the other hand, you could replace all three for the same price if you did it yourself.

I think the lifespan of these plugs are more likely linked to the length of trips (ie: number of starts) rather than to overall mileage, so each of us will have different service lives from our plugs. I'm comfortable with a 4 or 5 year lifespan for these babies. Some of us who have fewer start-ups could get much longer time or mileage out of them.

For the record, this is what I was experiencing at start-up: Turn key --- wait until plug light goes off --- start engine and plug light comes back on. Turn off engine, then turn key on --- plug light is on but doesn't go off --- start engine and plug light still stays on. Turn off engine, turn key and plug light comes on, then goes off (as normal) --- start engine and plug light stays off (as normal). I was never comfortable leaving the engine running with the plug light still on in case it was burning out the good plugs. That may have been overly cautious and the light may have gone off in a short time without the restarts.

This post has been edited by deezle: Jan 21 2009 - 10:01 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
smart142
post Jan 21 2009 - 12:28 PM
Post #31


moderator


Group: Global Moderators*
Posts: 6,931
Joined: May 25th, 05
From: Lambeth/London Ontario Canada
Member No.: 35



WOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's tight in the back of that engine! Even getting the electrical connections off is a chore. I couldn't even get the #3 off.
Luckily it was the #1 on mine and I was able to swap it out. My cost was only $22 because I bought the glow plugs 3 years ago on spec.
Everything is working OK and now my check engine light is off for the first time in 7 months bustamove.gif

Thanks again to gandalf for the inspiration! beerchug.gif


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)Brabus paddle shift wheel/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/rear brake led's/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MightyMouseTech
post Jan 21 2009 - 12:47 PM
Post #32





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 1,558
Joined: Jun 21st, 07
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Member No.: 3,521



QUOTE (deezle @ Jan 21 2009 - 12:58 PM) *
I think the lifespan of these plugs are more likely linked to the length of trips (ie: number of starts) rather than to overall mileage, so each of us will have different service lives from our plugs. I'm comfortable with a 4 or 5 year lifespan for these babies. Some of us who have fewer start-ups could get much longer time or mileage out of them.


Yup, consider them the same as spark plugs. Just routine maintenance.


--------------------
Christopher "Mighty Mouse" C.

Life's too short to drink bad wine.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
gandalf
post Jan 21 2009 - 04:40 PM
Post #33





Group: New Members
Posts: 6
Joined: Jul 14th, 07
Member No.: 3,863



Well I have done it tonight !

I have made a road test and the engine is still in one piece. However the Check Engine and Glow Plugs light is still on. To be investigated.
(Addendum: The Check Engine light resetted itself after a while... speak_cool.gif )

BERU GN015:




Glow plug ready to be installed with anti-seise.



For the installation; drop the plug in the hole and start the tread by hand with the socket. Better safe than sorry !

Then finish the installation, You could end up applying significant torque. Those treads are tight !!
You will sense that the plug hit the bottom of the hole. To be sure go back 1-2 turns and retry. The treads will go smoother and you will sense the limit better. End torque is 10-12 NM.





You can now put everything back in place !

A view of the tray, with the clip out...




The screw that helped me get more working space...





And finally the TOOL that helped me get cylinder #3 connector out ! Made in 5 min from hanging wire. biggrin.gif



This post has been edited by gandalf: Jan 22 2009 - 06:01 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
smart142
post Jan 22 2009 - 05:29 AM
Post #34


moderator


Group: Global Moderators*
Posts: 6,931
Joined: May 25th, 05
From: Lambeth/London Ontario Canada
Member No.: 35



I love the ingenuity!!! Good for you! thumbsup_anim.gif thumbsup_anim.gif thumbsup_anim.gif

That's strange that the check engine light didn't go out. Did you replace all 3?
Defective plug? Loose connection? Faulty relay?

Good luck! biggrin.gif


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)Brabus paddle shift wheel/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/rear brake led's/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
la moule
post Jan 22 2009 - 09:43 AM
Post #35





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 84
Joined: Oct 7th, 06
From: St-Sauveur Québec
Member No.: 1,677



QUOTE (la moule @ Jan 18 2009 - 01:40 PM) *
So let's on monday how much will be the cost of replacing those at the dealer (mine is 72$/hour) (Franke in Ste-Agathe des monts, Quebec)


Finally around 225$ at the dealer, as Gandalf, only 1 was working well, no more engine code, and started like a brand new this morning...

One good and one bad:




--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
gandalf
post Jan 22 2009 - 01:27 PM
Post #36





Group: New Members
Posts: 6
Joined: Jul 14th, 07
Member No.: 3,863



Just to say that my "Check Engine" light turned off today. Great ! laugh.gif laugh.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kayble
post Aug 30 2009 - 04:58 AM
Post #37





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 72
Joined: Jun 9th, 07
Member No.: 3,394



Hi all,

Bringing this topic to the top as I have recently had a glow plug warning light on my dash on starting. Having read up on this thread, I have to say that working from the passenger compartment through the passenger door with the passenger seat folded flat & boot floor carpet folded back away from the engine compartment opening - offers MUCH better access to the plugs than working from the rear of the car through the tailgate.

I tested my plugs today by running a digital multimeter from battery negative to the top of each plug and got the following.

Plug 1: 00.9 Ohms (on 200 scale)
Plug 2: 3.98 Ohms (on 20k scale)
Plug 3: 00.9 Ohms (on 200 scale)

Leads me to think that plug 2 is most certainly knackered!

What size of socket do i need to get the plug in/out? Presume I also need it to be a long socket?

Thanks!

This post has been edited by kayble: Aug 30 2009 - 11:28 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
smart142
post Jan 8 2010 - 07:15 AM
Post #38


moderator


Group: Global Moderators*
Posts: 6,931
Joined: May 25th, 05
From: Lambeth/London Ontario Canada
Member No.: 35



I'm almost afraid to post this because I know it will put the fear of God into many of you . However it is always good to learn from others misfortunes. I also beleive it is a very rare problem

On Tuesday I was asked to change the glow plugs on a friends smart with 120,000kms.

All started well because the #2 and #3 plugs loosened with minimal force. In the past there have been a few instances where the glow plugs break off in the engine and then it has to be removed and sent to a machine shop.

I swapped out the #3 glow plug with no problems. And that's when the problems started. #2 was wrenching off easily so I thought it was time to pull it out. Looked down and the stem that I usually grab is not there!!! OhOh! A little puzzled, but we decided to continue and the shaft of the glow plug was removed. Bet you didn't know they came apart, eh?

Now we're left with the long electrode exposed, but stuck in the engine.

Here's some pictures........

The middle picture shows the electrode that was stuck in the engine and the lower one a used glow plug.

I had to drive to Toronto that afternoon so I suggested that penetrating oil be used liberally and let it sit overnight.

My friend Keith tackled it in the morning.He held it with vise grips and tried tapping it lightly. Eventually there was a bit of movement and the electrode came out whole. A new glow plug was reinserted and torqued correctly.

The #1 glow plug was replaced with no problems.

My local dealer, London Ontario, had never seen this problem. They have had them break off but had never seen this type of seperation.
They showed me an injector that gave them major issues when they tried to remove it, the tech's little nightmare.

We were wondering why the #2 glow plug gave us so much problems and then remembered that in November Keith had a CEL- P0302- #2 cylinder misfire . An injector cleaner was used, the code was cleared, and didn't return.
However we both thought that the misfiring injector could have caused excess coking, resulting in that glow plug getting stuck in the block. Therefore we changed the #2 injector yesterday.
Keith said he noticed the engine was now running smoother with more power.

Lessons learned:

1. be more aggressive with follow up after CEL codes.
2. when changing glow plugs make sure the engine is hot when you start.
3. never try to force things. Have patience!!

Just remember that this is ,hopefully, a very rare problem.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  XmasGlow_plug7Jan2010_047.jpg ( 88.61K ) Number of downloads: 148
Attached File  XmasGlow_plug7Jan2010_048.jpg ( 81.02K ) Number of downloads: 127
 


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)Brabus paddle shift wheel/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/rear brake led's/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mike T
post Jan 8 2010 - 11:30 AM
Post #39


Ordered our first smart in 2002!


Group: Directors
Posts: 27,652
Joined: May 24th, 05
From: Ladysmith, Vancouver Island, BC CDN
Member No.: 5



Excellent advice!


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
smart142
post Sep 30 2010 - 01:01 PM
Post #40


moderator


Group: Global Moderators*
Posts: 6,931
Joined: May 25th, 05
From: Lambeth/London Ontario Canada
Member No.: 35



Lilbit (219,000kms) had the dreaded PO 380 check engine code come up this week. The glow plug light also stayed on after starting till the engine warmed up.

Decided to change all three as this is an engine with high km's and will need all the help it can get to start.

So, I ordered the glow plugs. Then when the engine was hot I sprayed the old gloiw plugs with WD40. Did this for 2 days.

Today I got the 10mm deep socket with 3/8'' drive, needle nose pliers, and needle nose vise grips all ready. With the hot engine I was able to loosen all the glow plugs. Used more WD40 and contiued wrenching.
The plugs still didn't want to come out. More WD40, more wrenching, still being stubborn. Resorted to using the needle nose pliers and they all came out with some muscle.

So happy that I was able to get these replaced before the cold weather hits dance.gif

A tip for the DIY'ers: it's very tight access behind the engine.

The plastic wire protector especially blocks access to the #3 electrial connector to the glow plug. The carrier is held on by two plastic clips- can be pried up.
It makes sense when you view the pictures.

The electrical connectors to the glow plugs have small mercedes stars on them.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  tach2010aug_039.jpg ( 2.9MB ) Number of downloads: 139
Attached File  tach2010aug_042.jpg ( 2.3MB ) Number of downloads: 109
Attached File  tach2010aug_044.jpg ( 2.52MB ) Number of downloads: 111
Attached File  tach2010aug_045.jpg ( 2.38MB ) Number of downloads: 142
 


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)Brabus paddle shift wheel/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/rear brake led's/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tolsen
post Oct 10 2010 - 11:46 PM
Post #41





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 1,852
Joined: Sep 29th, 09
From: Banchory, Scotland
Member No.: 7,409



Japanese Denso DG-184 is a good and much less expensive alternative to Beru GN015. Price is about half that of the Beru glow plug.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bilgladstone
post Oct 11 2010 - 12:07 AM
Post #42


This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


Group: Regular Members
Posts: 12,116
Joined: Jun 12th, 05
From: Kelowna, BC
Member No.: 95



Have you used the Denso plugs, TK? The price differential is HUGE! No concerns?

Bil sun.gif


--------------------
Join more than 210 smarties on the map! Where are you? CLICK HERE to add your marker!
::
[
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tolsen
post Oct 11 2010 - 12:50 AM
Post #43





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 1,852
Joined: Sep 29th, 09
From: Banchory, Scotland
Member No.: 7,409



Denso is a world leader in diesel pumps and glowplugs so just as good as Beru or Bosch. You get them on ebay for GBP 8.36 each. A total of 49.12 CAN for 3 inclusive of shipment to Canada, perhaps cheaper locally.
Denso DG-184 fits all Smart OM660 Cdi engines.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tolsen
post Oct 11 2010 - 02:45 AM
Post #44





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 1,852
Joined: Sep 29th, 09
From: Banchory, Scotland
Member No.: 7,409



Another good alternative is NGK Y-543J. Found one supplier on ebay. GBP 7.95 each plus postage. Total CAD 51 for 3 inclusive of shipment to Canada.
I ordered 3 of these NGK glowplugs for my Smart as a cold winter is forecast. My Smart has clocked nearly 150,000 km on the existing plugs so they may fail any time. Total cost GBP 25.80 or CAD 41.56 due to lower shipment rate within UK.

This post has been edited by tolsen: Oct 11 2010 - 03:03 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bilgladstone
post Oct 11 2010 - 02:56 AM
Post #45


This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


Group: Regular Members
Posts: 12,116
Joined: Jun 12th, 05
From: Kelowna, BC
Member No.: 95



QUOTE (Speedie @ Jan 20 2009 - 11:43 PM) *
<...>
Also there is a special socket for the glow plugs - basically a universal jointed long 10mm.
<...>

Cheers,
Cameron

Is this something an ordinary tool store like "the Tool Place" would carry? Is that how I would describe it - a 10mm deep socket with a universal joint?

And if I want to make extraction easier for my independent service guy, could I occasionally apply Liquid Wrench (or similar penetrating oil) while using the car a few days before the appointment?

Bil sun.gif

This post has been edited by bilgladstone: Oct 11 2010 - 03:00 AM


--------------------
Join more than 210 smarties on the map! Where are you? CLICK HERE to add your marker!
::
[
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tolsen
post Oct 11 2010 - 03:23 AM
Post #46





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 1,852
Joined: Sep 29th, 09
From: Banchory, Scotland
Member No.: 7,409



A 1/2" or 3/8" long socket will fit. Glowplugs are easier to unscrew when engine is at operating temperature. Keep soaking with penetration oil or diesel. No brute force. Unscrew in a similar motion as when cutting theads. I normally use a tapholder or T handle as easier to unscrew in oscillating movement.
This is one of my new NGK glowplugs.

This post has been edited by tolsen: Oct 19 2010 - 12:34 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
smart142
post Oct 11 2010 - 04:55 AM
Post #47


moderator


Group: Global Moderators*
Posts: 6,931
Joined: May 25th, 05
From: Lambeth/London Ontario Canada
Member No.: 35



QUOTE (bilgladstone @ Oct 11 2010 - 06:56 AM) *
And if I want to make extraction easier for my independent service guy, could I occasionally apply Liquid Wrench (or similar penetrating oil) while using the car a few days before the appointment?
Bil sun.gif

That worked for me!

Are you going to replace all 3?


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)Brabus paddle shift wheel/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/rear brake led's/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bilgladstone
post Oct 11 2010 - 09:05 AM
Post #48


This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


Group: Regular Members
Posts: 12,116
Joined: Jun 12th, 05
From: Kelowna, BC
Member No.: 95



I am not sure whether I'll do it at all just yet... creeping up on 100,000km, with winter coming. If I do it, it will be all three at once.

B sun.gif


--------------------
Join more than 210 smarties on the map! Where are you? CLICK HERE to add your marker!
::
[
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
yukoner
post Oct 26 2010 - 09:51 AM
Post #49


Never pass a bar with your name on it.


Group: Regular Members
Posts: 498
Joined: Nov 6th, 05
From: whitehorse
Member No.: 428



Well thanks for this folks! MB plugs are $44 out of Calgary plus a very long bus ride, so I'm off to town to see what's here for less. Pepper's at 104 thousand and counting, firing on maybe one or two cylinders on startup. I'll keep you posted.
Carl


--------------------
'51 C Rapide
'53 Ford C600
'54 Dominator Model 7
'54 Ford F 800 flowerpot
'76 CB400F
'05 Pure Bay Grey/ Black
'93 Jeep XJ Half a million km and somebody hit me. Poor old Jippu.
'97 TL1000S
'00 Jeep XJ
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
gordo.bernard
post Oct 31 2010 - 07:37 AM
Post #50





Group: Regular Members
Posts: 842
Joined: Oct 27th, 08
From: Maidstone, Ontario
Member No.: 6,582



The reamer tool that Tolsen referred us to is available here as well....Gord


www.tool-is.com/product/156475

This post has been edited by gordo.bernard: Oct 31 2010 - 07:38 AM
Attached File(s)
Attached File  03685L.png ( 101.41K ) Number of downloads: 93
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Jul 28 2014 - 08:25 AM