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Glow Plug/heater Circuit A Malfunction- Po380, with removal instructions.
smart142
post May 15 2008 - 07:54 PM
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This is what popped up on mine this morning. The glow plug light stayed on a long time and then went out.
Next start it did the same and then the check engine light came on. Scan gauge showed the code above.
Thankfully the warmer weather has arrived and the starts are pretty easy. Not an urgent problem.
Looks like I will be replacing the glow plugs in the near future.
Am I the first to have this happen?


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)paddle shifters/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/gorilla alarm/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/custom carpet/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/''smart''raised letters/rear brake led's/carbonfibre door pulls/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/scan gauge/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
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Mike T
post May 15 2008 - 08:03 PM
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Ordered our first smart in 2002!


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I forgot, how many km are on your car? I think there's been the odd failure under warranty. the part is probably a fair whack cheaper in Germany (hint hint).


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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smart142
post May 16 2008 - 03:19 AM
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I'm at 114,000 kms . I'll give the dealer a call to find out the cost. Thanks Mike!


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Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)paddle shifters/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/gorilla alarm/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/custom carpet/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/''smart''raised letters/rear brake led's/carbonfibre door pulls/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/scan gauge/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
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deezle
post Jan 17 2009 - 12:09 PM
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Has anybody actually changed a glow plug yet? Mine is now showing this code and the same symptoms ---- light comes back on after starting, or stays on before starting. It takes several starts to get it to go off. Of course this happened 7 hours after the warranty expired. 72,000 kms.

This post has been edited by deezle: Jan 17 2009 - 12:23 PM
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The Rog Man
post Jan 17 2009 - 12:32 PM
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I thought the warranty was good too 80,000 km's?


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2006 Black/silver Pulse Coupe,
Smart cup holder,two cd tray sets,softouch,smart premium sound package,Rev counter & clock,Smart mud flaps,Raised rear view mirror,A/C,Turn signals and park lites in headlite cluster,LED interior lites, LED side markers with blink mod,Fram pollen filter (CF8249),Cruise control,Super white headlite bulbs,Wiper arm spray nozzel,Vertical wipe mod,DRL city lites mod,Home made camo cargo cover,Passenger side window controller,Matching fabric armrest,A real horn,Lockable drawer,MDC Drivelock,Handy base platform, Checker plate footrest,chrome exhaust tip,




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deezle
post Jan 17 2009 - 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (The Rog Man @ Jan 17 2009 - 02:32 PM) *
I thought the warranty was good too 80,000 km's?


Or 4 years, whichever comes first. But unfortunately not 4 years and seven hours.
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Mike T
post Jan 17 2009 - 06:35 PM
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This is the proverbial "the car was programmed to go off at 4 years and 7 hours" story.

Mine at least had the decency to wait over 4000 km past warranty expiration before definitively lunching its clutch actuator wink.gif


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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Speedie
post Jan 17 2009 - 07:40 PM
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Did some digging Deez - apparently they are the same glow plug as the A class - great if you are in Europe - they are a standard pencil type (looks like a pen with a nut at the top). From some Mercedes sites - driving with it defective will mean it starts really rough but other than that should not be an issue for anything else (okay you will look like you have a remap for smoke).

Shouldn't be too hard to fix - I think FastEddy is back soon too if the dealer is trying to finance several trips to some place of of your repairs.

Cheers,
Cameron


--------------------
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"NuBlu" - 2006 Pulse - Star Blue - black tridion - in need of some TLC
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la moule
post Jan 18 2009 - 06:17 AM
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QUOTE (smart142 @ May 15 2008 - 10:54 PM) *
This is what popped up on mine this morning. The glow plug light stayed on a long time and then went out.
Next start it did the same and then the check engine light came on. Scan gauge showed the code above.
Thankfully the warmer weather has arrived and the starts are pretty easy. Not an urgent problem.
Looks like I will be replacing the glow plugs in the near future.
Am I the first to have this happen?



2 people have this problem right now in the Quebec smart club, me and Gandalf.....

I am at 157,000 km and Gandalf at 130,000 (around)

let's keep in touch or practice your french in our new website (Visit My Website or the forum (Visit My Website))


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maxwell smart
post Jan 18 2009 - 07:48 AM
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Can this be a battery related problem? Maybe a 4 years old battery does not have enough juice (voltage) in the cold to heat the glow plugs and operate all the electronics. Do anyone have the same problem with a new battery? I am going to replace my 4 years old battery soon. When it's very cold (-20 c) the ABS and ESP lights stay on, the Smart is very hard to start and the three bars of death comes on once. My other Smart (2 years old) does not have any of this problem at all.
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la moule
post Jan 18 2009 - 09:45 AM
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i've put yesterday a new battery (Optima red top 34/78) and this morning (-18) my smart had still difficulties to start and the same thing happened with the glow plug problem described earlier...

QUOTE
Smart (MCC) CABRIO 0.8 CDI (S1OLC1) 03.2001 - 01.2004 30 kW / 41 PS 799 / 3


can be fitted with the following original BERU brand product(s):

Product Type Code designation Type designation Order No.
Glow Plug GN GN 015 - 0 100 226 392 15668
Installation Information: Cover glow plug thread and -shaft with mounting grease, (GKF 01 - Order No. 0 890 300 034), before fitting to enable easier removal and prevent corrosion.
Tightening Torque [Nm] 15
Failure Moment [Nm] 35
Port Type Ø 4 mm
Cone Pitch 63°
Fitting Depth [mm] 40
Overall Length [mm] 121
Thread Size M 10x1,25
Spanner Size 10 mm
Glow Plug Type Pencil-type Glow Plug
Glow Plug Type After-glow capable
Rated Current [A] 14
Voltage [V] 11


This post has been edited by la moule: Jan 18 2009 - 09:45 AM


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deezle
post Jan 18 2009 - 10:11 AM
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Ha!! smile.gif Great minds think alike. I have been thinking of a new battery for a few weeks, partly because of the peace of mind of a maintenance-free no-horrors-for-the-wife starting for another 5 years or so. So as I was assessing the car's behavior and watching the dash displays very carefully, I noticed the display brighten and dimming. Might be a voltage thing behind all of this, I thought. So in goes a new Optima Red Top 34/78 from Costco but alas things are still the same. Speedie's generous lending of his scanguage confirmed that it is indeed the PO 380 glow plug malfunction.

The specifications in the previous post state "Glow plug type: After-glow capable" I wonder if this means that the plug can remain on for a short while after the engine is started without burning out. I have immediately shut it off each time if the plug light stays on because I don't want to burn out the two remaining good plugs. I've also wondered if the heat from a plug, in combination with the heat from combustion, could scorch a section in the cylinders.

This post has been edited by deezle: Jan 18 2009 - 10:12 AM
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la moule
post Jan 18 2009 - 10:40 AM
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So let's on monday how much will be the cost of replacing those at the dealer (mine is 72$/hour) (Franke in Ste-Agathe des monts, Quebec)


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bilgladstone
post Jan 18 2009 - 01:10 PM
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This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


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From MBCA:
QUOTE
Diesels: Most of the Mercedes diesels are very robust and do not require much internal service for 250K miles. [...] Expect a set of injectors to last at least 100K miles and glow plugs typically last 75K miles.
Our Canadian smarts are reaching the normal end-of-life period for these parts.

B sun.gif


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Fred J
post Jan 18 2009 - 02:32 PM
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QUOTE (bilgladstone @ Jan 18 2009 - 01:10 PM) *
From MBCA:Our Canadian smarts are reaching the normal end-of-life period for these parts.

B sun.gif


I don't know how or why these arbitary numbers are thrown out and only act to put worry and fear into owners.

"end-of-life period" I wouldn't expect any failure based of such low milages alone.

Looking for 1/2 million easily without a failure and fully expect to reach it and many more miles after that.
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bilgladstone
post Jan 18 2009 - 03:08 PM
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This is my smart. There are many like it, but this one is mine.


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Worn out is not failure dunno.gif Everything has a service life that ends sometime. You're right, Fred: careful use, conscientious maintenance, mild climate, choice of lubricants, garage protection, etc. are all factors that may extend service life.

I also expect longer replacement intervals than MBCA notes suggest. I had a Datsun diesel pickup that went over 250,000 miles without issues, and I hope for similar performance - or better - from my wee smartie.

B sun.gif


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Mike T
post Jan 18 2009 - 06:11 PM
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Mercedes-Benz Club of America??


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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gandalf
post Jan 19 2009 - 06:15 PM
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Well, I was able to get the Glow Plugs out tonight !

First you need to see where they are:




From the top, front of the engine first:








They are hard to see, and harder to get at ! huh.gif

But by prying, cutting some tie-wraps and removing a bolt near the front you can get more access space. Also there is a plastic tray that can be moved a little.

Now, to remove the electric connection you need to lift it strait-up. I used pliers, and patience...

So this is it ! They are small !




You can check them with an ohmmeter/continuity tester.
Normal reading is under an ohm. My bad ones read ~400 and ~1600 ohms.

Good one:




Bad one...




To remove them you need => Nerves of steel ($$$$ if you miss), patience (30 min) and a good shot of penetrating oil.
OR BETTER YET => Let the MB guys do it in ~1.5 hr.
WARNING => Remove dust, junk, bugs with compressed air before working !!! You don't want to have foreign material into these holes !

The oil is used is => Gunk Liquid Wrench Deodorized Super Penetrant. CTire have it.



At first I was not able to move them, but with some penetrating oil they moved.
The sound while unscrewing is like "Squirck-Squirck" but torque is manageable.
Also, at the end, you need to pull them out vertically with pliers, as they tend to stick in.

Here they are !



I made two tests; Resistivity and 12 Vdc check:

Resistivity:

Cyl #1 => ~400 ohms => Bad
Cyl #2 => ~1600 ohms => Bad
Cyl #3 => ~0.6 ohm => Good !

12 Vdc check:

Cyl #1 => Cold
Cyl #2 => Cold
Cyl #3 => Rising Sun !



..


I searched for the part and found some aftermarket numbers:

Beru GN015
Champion CH228
Delphi HDS387


Hope this help !



Gandalf

This post has been edited by gandalf: Jan 19 2009 - 06:47 PM
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Mike T
post Jan 19 2009 - 06:18 PM
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Merci René!


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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deezle
post Jan 19 2009 - 10:27 PM
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Excellent post, gandalf!
I didn't expect them to be so long and thin. Did you source your replacements yet? Prices?

This post has been edited by deezle: Jan 19 2009 - 10:28 PM
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Duck
post Jan 20 2009 - 04:03 AM
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One of the best and most informative posts here. Thanks for your work, and documentation on this! Sounds like this would be a good way for each of us to test our glow plugs at home (using the multimeter).

-Iain


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2006 smart fortwo cdi Nosedive.... Back up and running!
2010 Toyota Gen3 Prius Normandy (N7) - Hybrid Synergy Drive active!
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smart142
post Jan 20 2009 - 05:34 AM
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Excellent post! I still have to change mine and I'm glad someone has shown the way.
The local smart techs say that they couldn't get one out and stripped it. Ended up pulling the head. Scared the heck out of me.
A couple of questions. Did you coat the threads of the replacement glow plugs with never seize before replacing? and is there a correct torque for setting the plugs?


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)paddle shifters/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/gorilla alarm/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/custom carpet/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/''smart''raised letters/rear brake led's/carbonfibre door pulls/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/scan gauge/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
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gandalf
post Jan 20 2009 - 10:19 AM
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I will change the plugs tonight.

Yes you need to apply anti-seize on the treads for the next time (No anti-seize originaly).

I found a local source of BERU GN015 at $30.91 each, stock in Montreal.

Torque is specified at 10-15 NM.
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smart142
post Jan 20 2009 - 12:55 PM
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Thanks! and good luck tonight!


--------------------
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)paddle shifters/oem cruise/remap/old skool clock&tach/heated black leather seats/sound&6CD/locking drawer/pollen filter/cupholder/cd holders.Mods tinting/euro turn signal#1/s mann air scoop,skirts/brabus grill/alum fuel cap/spangenburg pedals&handbrake, leather gaiter/gorilla alarm/alum ignition ring/custom leather armrest/custom carpet/alum drivers footrest/key mod/led side markers /blue led interiorlight/''smart''raised letters/rear brake led's/carbonfibre door pulls/silver front spoiler/wiper arm mod/rear marker led/oil pan heater/scan gauge/Eibach springs/vortex generators/window vents/headrest speakers/euro tail lights/Michalak fogs

4.4
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gandalf
post Jan 20 2009 - 02:34 PM
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There is another way to test the Glow Plugs, that doesn't require any removal of parts.

If someone has access to a DC Clamp meter it is possible to check that each plug sink current. Just clip the meter on each wire.
It's so easy that it could be done during smart meets. Then everyone will know the state of their plugs.


I say that because it's almost impossible to burn two plugs at the same time !
I think the "Check Engine" goes off after TWO bad plugs, not one. My guess.
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