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@  Mike T : (31 October 2014 - 11:59 AM) Hello members, we are pleased to have gone "live" with our Car Registries dropdown, for the moment containing only the Canadian 450 cdi list. Please read the information concerning the use of the Registry on our homepage. Thanks!
@  FlossyTheSmart : (30 October 2014 - 05:39 PM) You should look at the "Service Options" link at the top of the page though, for independent smart mechanics
@  FlossyTheSmart : (30 October 2014 - 05:39 PM) Could be the cold start issue that SkyDiverChris has been fighting with too. Temperature's about right
@  Mike T : (30 October 2014 - 05:38 PM) I am thinking it's the fuel pump connection on the SAM but a dealer should look at that first due to the Service Bulletin on the topic.
@  SINIVU : (30 October 2014 - 05:32 PM) Probably Kitchener dealer!
@  Mike T : (30 October 2014 - 05:19 PM) Which dealer?
@  babycakes : (30 October 2014 - 02:48 PM) My smart tries to start but won't quite start - at Mercedes now and they have no idea what's wrong
@  babycakes : (30 October 2014 - 02:46 PM) does anyone know of a place to take the smart besides Mercedes
@  lebikerboy : (30 October 2014 - 12:31 PM) I miss Bil's stuff too!
@  Coast Steve : (30 October 2014 - 10:21 AM) I miss seeing Bil Gladstone's crazy inventions! "Skunk Werx" I think it was.
@  marchanna : (23 October 2014 - 06:26 PM) You should report that, it makes you an accessory after the fact. Oh crap! Now we're all accessories! Speaking of which, I should buy some accessories for my car.
@  Coast Steve : (23 October 2014 - 04:41 PM) He ment to say Killing time
@  Coast Steve : (23 October 2014 - 04:41 PM) Speaking of typing mistakes, my buddy typed to someone "I'm just around the corner killing Tim".
@  Wild! : (23 October 2014 - 11:52 AM) Going to Glenn's he says he may have what I need.
@  Wild! : (23 October 2014 - 11:49 AM) This has to do with side lighting.
@  Wild! : (23 October 2014 - 11:49 AM) No that part was done 2 years ago.
@  FlossyTheSmart : (23 October 2014 - 08:48 AM) Top secret panel painting project?
@  Wild! : (22 October 2014 - 04:05 PM) Does some one have an 450 old door skin? one that is broken or garbage want to do some tests on one before I attempt my good ones.
@  Mike T : (22 October 2014 - 06:20 AM) John from Victoria, are you and Keith on the site these days? We have a dinner on November 6th coming up in Victoria! It would be cool to see you both there! See the thread in the Vancouver Island sub-forum.
@  marchanna : (22 October 2014 - 05:37 AM) http://www.vevo.com/...es/USRV81400343

Photo

Anyone Have the Magnetic oil pan heater from Canadian Tire?


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24 replies to this topic

#1 steveyfrac

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Posted 02 October 2008 - 08:01 PM

I've looked at a bunch of different block heater options. The wolverine heater pads, and a bunch of different ones sold by Canadian Tire. One that looked interesting sticks on magnetically. There were also two that circulate warmed coolant.If the coolant ones will fit, i'd love to use those. Else i think i'll get the magnetic one. I assume the magnetic one I have to pull off every morning, and stick it back on every night? I could see that getting old fast.The wolverine pad looks interesting, but it's really low wattage, and I question it's ability to keep the car warm in a -25 degree wind. My car is parked way out in the open, and the wind cuts through it. My gasoline cars have trouble starting some days.

2014 451 Electric Drive -- Arctic White && Electric Green Tridion.  Nav + Electic Styling Package.

2005 450 CDI Blue Passion coupe 73k. Mods so far: Factory Tach installed, Scanguage, 900w Ceramic Interior Heater. Clear LED side lights. Wolverine oil pan heater. H3 heated seat kit from www.heatedseatkit.com. -- SOLD but never forgotten.  My beloved 'Stein


#2 smart142

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 04:13 AM

I did the oil pan heater and can give it a :thumbsup_anim: .It gets the job done and like you noticed doesn't draw a lot of electricity. I tried to get a group buy going in 2006 but there wasn't any interest. Seems like our little diesels will start in all but the most extreme cold days. Good luck!
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver-loaded! ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)SOLD! 12 Sept 2014 - 3 months shy of 10 year ownership. Now driving a 2005 loaded passion. Blue/silver that was owned and modified by Dan Gold.

4.4

#3 strawboss

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 04:17 AM

I've used the magnetic heater on an old truck, worked well.Didn't have to remove it every morning as there was enough space on the side of the block,not an option with these cars, I'm afraid.

2005 450 cdi passion blue w/power sunroof ,Softtouch transmission, ignition free power window conversion. Custom seat covers;"Poorman's push button start";Kofangar-Lasse's "450&1/2" font panel mod , euro front turn signal conversion w/led side blinkers,spin on oil filter adapter, SGII, Roadster wheel package W/ Moon wheel covers, AGM battery, after market TPMS, self installed clock & tach package, JVC stereo head unit,Full EGR delete w/emulator,120V space heater w/timer,TK Olsen's coolant restrictor plug, Willgoose's GT SS Exhaust,S-mann SS valance; Windshield wiper blade washer jets, Led angel eyes , under seat drawer; Self installed Webasto coolant heater.

100_0569-1.jpg

An Airedale standing beside a chauffeur & Rolls Royce.....may give the impression that he's there by choice.
95 Tacoma 4wd (with "just a few" mods), 2011 8x8 Argo, 60 year old 7.5 hp 800 lb antique Lister stationary Diesel


#4 booneylander

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 04:36 AM

I used the magnetic one last year. Was going to use the wolvering pad one but couldn't bring myself to take sandpaper the underside of the oil pan. Yes you have to take it off every morning and put it on every night, it's not that much of a hassle. Even with a wolverine pad you still end up fishing around in the snowbank for the extension cord anyways, so it's just an extra 5 seconds to put the pan heater on. I'm more of a fan of the oil pan heaters like the pad or the magnetic one as opposed to the in-line coolant heaters or block heaters because it's more important IMHO to have the oil in the pan warm when starting so that it gets circulating quickly to prevent wear. Anyways, two thumbs up for the mag heater from me, and I'll be using it again this year!
2005 smart Passion Cabrio (Sold)
best trip mileage (50km): 2.6L/100km Best tank (701km): 3.18L/100km

2000 VW Golf TDI 5spd

1999 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro 5 Spd
1993 Mazda RX7 TT 5 Spd JDM RHD
1993 Toyota Supra NA-T 5 spd JDM RHD
1995 International 4700 10ton / airbrakes / 24ft box

#5 Guest_Wayne_*

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 04:42 AM

I'm planning on getting the magnetic one for this winter. I agree that removing it every morning could be a hassle, but last year I only had about 5 days that I needed to plug my old car in. So if the weather stays the reasonable, it shouldn't be too bad.Wayne.

#6 jeank

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 05:53 AM

I installed the recirculating 750w heater from Canadian tire, It does fit. I had to remove the left headlight and overflow. I wanted to fit it to the heater lines but ended up hooking it to the 5/8 line that comes from the bottom rad hose to the bottom of the overflow.

#7 yolanda

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 02:44 PM

Neat topic. I've got an old mag heater from years ago. Still works. I was given it for a car that had no block heater, till I finally installed a block heater. Still have it. Iris has got a block heater and lives in a garage so I probably don't need this. What you think?Anyone in Saskatchewan want it? I'll trade it for a large mocha and a boston cream donut at Timmy's with you :-)
Iris:
2006 diesel passion smart car. Purchased Jan 25, 2008 Dealer Demo
Blue with silver. Interior grey with black leather seats and wheel.
Panoramic roof, heated leather seats and side mirrors, mp3 aux on stereo, cup holder, power windows and mirrors, tach and clock pods, candy dish fashioned to look like an ashtray, passion alloy rims, air conditioning, "dancing" foot-well lights, spare 12v "always on" accessory plug, custom fabric privacy cover.
Vanity plates "Iris 42," stereo bluetooth plug-in for mp3 player.
LiteGlow undercar LED color changing, music responsive, remote controlled novelty lighting kit, self installed.
Currently tarped with a damaged front left and damaged panels from a fender bender that totalled her. Parts car standing by for spring.

#8 steveyfrac

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 12:02 PM

Neat topic. I've got an old mag heater from years ago. Still works. I was given it for a car that had no block heater, till I finally installed a block heater. Still have it. Iris has got a block heater and lives in a garage so I probably don't need this. What you think? Anyone in Saskatchewan want it? I'll trade it for a large mocha and a boston cream donut at Timmy's with you :-)

Does it count if i send you a Timies gift certificate and a picture of myself drinking a hot chocolate? :P I bought an interior ceramic heater to warm the car prior to me getting in it this winter, instead of getting heated seats. It's a $70 ceramic heater, 900w from Canadian tire. Truthfully, it's probably overkill for the size of the car. I don't think it would have much trouble keeping a full sized van warm at -40. I'm going to be running it on a timer that has it come on about an hour before i have to drive. Problem is i don't have the cable that connects to the front of the car :( I bought the car used, and the cable wasn't included. I hope mercedez dosen't charge $200 for the cable. Mind you, if that's the case, it'll do a lookup on it, and build my own. If anyone is out there that dosent' need their cable, I'll buy it off you. I was looking for the pad style heater but didn't find one. Might check parts source, or order the wolverine pad. I'm less worried about it being ABLE to start, and more worried about it causing less wear, because everything is already warm.

2014 451 Electric Drive -- Arctic White && Electric Green Tridion.  Nav + Electic Styling Package.

2005 450 CDI Blue Passion coupe 73k. Mods so far: Factory Tach installed, Scanguage, 900w Ceramic Interior Heater. Clear LED side lights. Wolverine oil pan heater. H3 heated seat kit from www.heatedseatkit.com. -- SOLD but never forgotten.  My beloved 'Stein


#9 steveyfrac

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 02:53 PM

I let the ceramic heater run for an hour to see how it would do, and also, to ensure that the sides don't heat up. I want to mount it underneath the passenger seat so any appreciable heat gain is unacceptable. The sides stayed perfectly cool. Furthermore, it heated my house up to about 28 degrees. It's like a freakin sauna in here. Definately overkill for my application, but you can bet that i won't be scrapping any windows in the mornings this winter!

2014 451 Electric Drive -- Arctic White && Electric Green Tridion.  Nav + Electic Styling Package.

2005 450 CDI Blue Passion coupe 73k. Mods so far: Factory Tach installed, Scanguage, 900w Ceramic Interior Heater. Clear LED side lights. Wolverine oil pan heater. H3 heated seat kit from www.heatedseatkit.com. -- SOLD but never forgotten.  My beloved 'Stein


#10 yolanda

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 12:51 AM

Does it count if i send you a Timies gift certificate and a picture of myself drinking a hot chocolate? :P

LOL, photo huh? I really don't want to deal with shipping is the thing. I am terrible at getting snail mail out. Even letters can sit for up to a year before i actually get them in an envelope and another few months for a stamp, then, well, they're lucky if they get to a mailbox instead of lost or tossed for being obsolete. Packages? Oh dear. This thing isn't worth it, really. Cheaper to buy at the store than to mail anyway.
Iris:
2006 diesel passion smart car. Purchased Jan 25, 2008 Dealer Demo
Blue with silver. Interior grey with black leather seats and wheel.
Panoramic roof, heated leather seats and side mirrors, mp3 aux on stereo, cup holder, power windows and mirrors, tach and clock pods, candy dish fashioned to look like an ashtray, passion alloy rims, air conditioning, "dancing" foot-well lights, spare 12v "always on" accessory plug, custom fabric privacy cover.
Vanity plates "Iris 42," stereo bluetooth plug-in for mp3 player.
LiteGlow undercar LED color changing, music responsive, remote controlled novelty lighting kit, self installed.
Currently tarped with a damaged front left and damaged panels from a fender bender that totalled her. Parts car standing by for spring.

#11 steveyfrac

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 01:57 PM

LOL, photo huh? I really don't want to deal with shipping is the thing. I am terrible at getting snail mail out. Even letters can sit for up to a year before i actually get them in an envelope and another few months for a stamp, then, well, they're lucky if they get to a mailbox instead of lost or tossed for being obsolete. Packages? Oh dear. This thing isn't worth it, really. Cheaper to buy at the store than to mail anyway.

Ya I understand. :) I'm probably going to order the 9.1 wolverine pad. I'm actually tempted to get two, to make sure it's warm enough o.O.

2014 451 Electric Drive -- Arctic White && Electric Green Tridion.  Nav + Electic Styling Package.

2005 450 CDI Blue Passion coupe 73k. Mods so far: Factory Tach installed, Scanguage, 900w Ceramic Interior Heater. Clear LED side lights. Wolverine oil pan heater. H3 heated seat kit from www.heatedseatkit.com. -- SOLD but never forgotten.  My beloved 'Stein


#12 yolanda

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 04:14 PM

You don't need that much warmth, I wouldn't go that far. It helps if your car is in a sheltered area so there's less air movement to cool it, but really it doesn't take that much warmth to make a difference.
Iris:
2006 diesel passion smart car. Purchased Jan 25, 2008 Dealer Demo
Blue with silver. Interior grey with black leather seats and wheel.
Panoramic roof, heated leather seats and side mirrors, mp3 aux on stereo, cup holder, power windows and mirrors, tach and clock pods, candy dish fashioned to look like an ashtray, passion alloy rims, air conditioning, "dancing" foot-well lights, spare 12v "always on" accessory plug, custom fabric privacy cover.
Vanity plates "Iris 42," stereo bluetooth plug-in for mp3 player.
LiteGlow undercar LED color changing, music responsive, remote controlled novelty lighting kit, self installed.
Currently tarped with a damaged front left and damaged panels from a fender bender that totalled her. Parts car standing by for spring.

#13 steveyfrac

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 08:26 PM

You don't need that much warmth, I wouldn't go that far. It helps if your car is in a sheltered area so there's less air movement to cool it, but really it doesn't take that much warmth to make a difference.

Eh. My car is parked in more or less a windswept open field. Kinda anyways. I've had days where my gas cars barely start. I've also had snow drift over the entire car. I was grumpy that day IIRC. Two probably is overkill though i guess.

2014 451 Electric Drive -- Arctic White && Electric Green Tridion.  Nav + Electic Styling Package.

2005 450 CDI Blue Passion coupe 73k. Mods so far: Factory Tach installed, Scanguage, 900w Ceramic Interior Heater. Clear LED side lights. Wolverine oil pan heater. H3 heated seat kit from www.heatedseatkit.com. -- SOLD but never forgotten.  My beloved 'Stein


#14 smart142

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 02:25 AM

Two would be overkill. You're other option is a webasto heater, but that is very expensive...webasto review.
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver-loaded! ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)SOLD! 12 Sept 2014 - 3 months shy of 10 year ownership. Now driving a 2005 loaded passion. Blue/silver that was owned and modified by Dan Gold.

4.4

#15 steveyfrac

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 05:23 AM

Two would be overkill. You're other option is a webasto heater, but that is very expensive...webasto review.

I've looked at the webasto, but it's too expensive to be realistic, despite being really really cool. My concern with the wolverine pad remains that it's too little heat to make a difference. Other block heaters solutions start at almost twice the power output. Mind you, heating the oil directly is probably a technically superior solution, and doesn't require as much power. Gah, ordering the wolverine pad. Pretty soon it'll be to cold to install anything.

2014 451 Electric Drive -- Arctic White && Electric Green Tridion.  Nav + Electic Styling Package.

2005 450 CDI Blue Passion coupe 73k. Mods so far: Factory Tach installed, Scanguage, 900w Ceramic Interior Heater. Clear LED side lights. Wolverine oil pan heater. H3 heated seat kit from www.heatedseatkit.com. -- SOLD but never forgotten.  My beloved 'Stein


#16 smart142

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 05:26 AM

Do you have access to a hoist?
Glenn.
2005 Passion coupe Bay grey-silver-loaded! ''Gina'' (deposit 1Nov02,delivered13Dec04)SOLD! 12 Sept 2014 - 3 months shy of 10 year ownership. Now driving a 2005 loaded passion. Blue/silver that was owned and modified by Dan Gold.

4.4

#17 steveyfrac

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 07:22 AM

Do you have access to a hoist?

Not really. :( I don't even have ramps.

2014 451 Electric Drive -- Arctic White && Electric Green Tridion.  Nav + Electic Styling Package.

2005 450 CDI Blue Passion coupe 73k. Mods so far: Factory Tach installed, Scanguage, 900w Ceramic Interior Heater. Clear LED side lights. Wolverine oil pan heater. H3 heated seat kit from www.heatedseatkit.com. -- SOLD but never forgotten.  My beloved 'Stein


#18 booneylander

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 07:36 AM

While looking at the Wolverine website I noticed they have an in-pan heater listed. That'd be the ideal if it would fit. It looks like it is 10.75" long though so it may not be use-able for the smart, but I wonder if someone else sells a smaller but same type element that threads into the oil pan.
2005 smart Passion Cabrio (Sold)
best trip mileage (50km): 2.6L/100km Best tank (701km): 3.18L/100km

2000 VW Golf TDI 5spd

1999 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro 5 Spd
1993 Mazda RX7 TT 5 Spd JDM RHD
1993 Toyota Supra NA-T 5 spd JDM RHD
1995 International 4700 10ton / airbrakes / 24ft box

#19 steveyfrac

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 08:11 AM

While looking at the Wolverine website I noticed they have an in-pan heater listed. That'd be the ideal if it would fit. It looks like it is 10.75" long though so it may not be use-able for the smart, but I wonder if someone else sells a smaller but same type element that threads into the oil pan.

I'd be paranoi about it leaking. I already freak out about checking my filter all the time to make sure there isn't a slow drip.

2014 451 Electric Drive -- Arctic White && Electric Green Tridion.  Nav + Electic Styling Package.

2005 450 CDI Blue Passion coupe 73k. Mods so far: Factory Tach installed, Scanguage, 900w Ceramic Interior Heater. Clear LED side lights. Wolverine oil pan heater. H3 heated seat kit from www.heatedseatkit.com. -- SOLD but never forgotten.  My beloved 'Stein


#20 booneylander

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 09:35 AM

I don't see why it would leak, if things are properly tightened with a proper gasket or crush washer, they should never have a problem.
2005 smart Passion Cabrio (Sold)
best trip mileage (50km): 2.6L/100km Best tank (701km): 3.18L/100km

2000 VW Golf TDI 5spd

1999 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro 5 Spd
1993 Mazda RX7 TT 5 Spd JDM RHD
1993 Toyota Supra NA-T 5 spd JDM RHD
1995 International 4700 10ton / airbrakes / 24ft box

#21 steveyfrac

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 10:21 AM

I don't see why it would leak, if things are properly tightened with a proper gasket or crush washer, they should never have a problem.

Oh i don't doubt that a secure instalation wouldn't be possible and practical. But i would doubt my own installation, much the same way as i doubt that i put the filter back on tight enough when i do my own oil changes.

2014 451 Electric Drive -- Arctic White && Electric Green Tridion.  Nav + Electic Styling Package.

2005 450 CDI Blue Passion coupe 73k. Mods so far: Factory Tach installed, Scanguage, 900w Ceramic Interior Heater. Clear LED side lights. Wolverine oil pan heater. H3 heated seat kit from www.heatedseatkit.com. -- SOLD but never forgotten.  My beloved 'Stein


#22 denisjolicoeur

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 12:02 PM

I'm researching a couple of different options this week. One garage offered to throw on one of the permanent stick-on type oil pan heaters for us, the wife's gonna comfirm the price this week.But I may have just found a better and less expensive solution. Looks like I could get a 4" x 4" oil pan heater for less than $55. It's 300W and it's the type that uses adjustable straps to bolt-on with a couple of the existing oil pan bolts.I don't have the car here to take a look, does anyone have any pics of the 451 engine's oil pan and/or know if this latter type of application is compatible? Are their pan bolts directly accross from each other?
2008 smart fortwo Passion Coupe 451.

#23 strawboss

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 08:57 AM

Does it count if i send you a Timies gift certificate and a picture of myself drinking a hot chocolate? :P I bought an interior ceramic heater to warm the car prior to me getting in it this winter, instead of getting heated seats. It's a $70 ceramic heater, 900w from Canadian tire. Truthfully, it's probably overkill for the size of the car. I don't think it would have much trouble keeping a full sized van warm at -40. I'm going to be running it on a timer that has it come on about an hour before i have to drive. Problem is i don't have the cable that connects to the front of the car :( I bought the car used, and the cable wasn't included. I hope mercedez dosen't charge $200 for the cable. Mind you, if that's the case, it'll do a lookup on it, and build my own. If anyone is out there that dosent' need their cable, I'll buy it off you. I was looking for the pad style heater but didn't find one. Might check parts source, or order the wolverine pad. I'm less worried about it being ABLE to start, and more worried about it causing less wear, because everything is already warm.

Princess Auto has a 500 watt heater on sale right now for $14.00 you can set it for 1000 watts but why would we? ;) I bought one, it's quite compact, I didn't get a cable with my car but have placed an order with a electronic supply house for an Amphenol plug.

2005 450 cdi passion blue w/power sunroof ,Softtouch transmission, ignition free power window conversion. Custom seat covers;"Poorman's push button start";Kofangar-Lasse's "450&1/2" font panel mod , euro front turn signal conversion w/led side blinkers,spin on oil filter adapter, SGII, Roadster wheel package W/ Moon wheel covers, AGM battery, after market TPMS, self installed clock & tach package, JVC stereo head unit,Full EGR delete w/emulator,120V space heater w/timer,TK Olsen's coolant restrictor plug, Willgoose's GT SS Exhaust,S-mann SS valance; Windshield wiper blade washer jets, Led angel eyes , under seat drawer; Self installed Webasto coolant heater.

100_0569-1.jpg

An Airedale standing beside a chauffeur & Rolls Royce.....may give the impression that he's there by choice.
95 Tacoma 4wd (with "just a few" mods), 2011 8x8 Argo, 60 year old 7.5 hp 800 lb antique Lister stationary Diesel


#24 martenswd

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 08:09 AM

I've been useing the magnetic one from canadian tire. Works great. It's kind of annoying having to reach under the car before and after each drive to stick it on but it was free (My dad had one collecting dust).
2005 Smart Fortwo Passion Cabrio. Blue/silver, w/orange interior.

Are you Canadian? do you like to save money? If you answered yes to the first two questions, you have to sign up for SmartCanucks, It's a forum dedicated to finding freebies, coupons, and deals for Canadians.

#25 strawboss

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:36 AM

I'm researching a couple of different options this week. One garage offered to throw on one of the permanent stick-on type oil pan heaters for us, the wife's gonna comfirm the price this week. But I may have just found a better and less expensive solution. Looks like I could get a 4" x 4" oil pan heater for less than $55. It's 300W and it's the type that uses adjustable straps to bolt-on with a couple of the existing oil pan bolts. I don't have the car here to take a look, does anyone have any pics of the 451 engine's oil pan and/or know if this latter type of application is compatible? Are their pan bolts directly accross from each other?

If that heater falls through here's a Cdn supplier with a good price for a stick on heater, if you can lay your hands on some ramps the job is dead easy.... http://www.generator...pan-heaters.php

2005 450 cdi passion blue w/power sunroof ,Softtouch transmission, ignition free power window conversion. Custom seat covers;"Poorman's push button start";Kofangar-Lasse's "450&1/2" font panel mod , euro front turn signal conversion w/led side blinkers,spin on oil filter adapter, SGII, Roadster wheel package W/ Moon wheel covers, AGM battery, after market TPMS, self installed clock & tach package, JVC stereo head unit,Full EGR delete w/emulator,120V space heater w/timer,TK Olsen's coolant restrictor plug, Willgoose's GT SS Exhaust,S-mann SS valance; Windshield wiper blade washer jets, Led angel eyes , under seat drawer; Self installed Webasto coolant heater.

100_0569-1.jpg

An Airedale standing beside a chauffeur & Rolls Royce.....may give the impression that he's there by choice.
95 Tacoma 4wd (with "just a few" mods), 2011 8x8 Argo, 60 year old 7.5 hp 800 lb antique Lister stationary Diesel





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