Indianapolis Test Market For Electric Smart Car Options

[smart142]

Car Has 85-Mile Range Before Recharging

POSTED: 12:30 pm EDT July 29, 2010


INDIANAPOLIS -- Indianapolis is one of five cities where consumers will get the first crack at leasing an electric-powered vehicle launching in the U.S. this year.

The Smart Fortwo Electric Drive was introduced in Indianapolis on Thursday. The fully electric car is powered by a lithium-ion battery, 6News' Julie Pursley reported.

It can be charged in between four to eight hours, yielding about an 85-mile driving range before it needs to be recharged, using about $2 of electricity where a standard vehicle would consume about $12 in gas for the same distance.

Derek Kaufman, Smart's vice president of business development, said Indianapolis was chosen because of the city's interest.

"When we came in one of the early meetings with the utility commission here in Indianapolis … the first thing they asked is, 'How can we help?'" Kaufman said.

The car is marketed toward people who need to make short trips.

"It'll drive the car for about 85 miles on a single charge, and it takes about four hours to charge the battery at 220 (volts) and about 12 hours at 110 (volts)," Kaufman said. "We can charge either in kind of a dryer line in your house or in the regular 110 circuit."

The car itself is very compact, but is built with safety in mind, the company said, utilizing safety characteristics used in race cars.

"This is extremely safe on the highway," said Walter Grass, Smart's brand manager. "This is like the actual safety cage of the F1 formula cars. It takes the impact and it bounces off from what has hit you."

George Moody, who already has a gas-powered smart car, now wants an electric model.

"I just love the technology, and to see America head toward electric cars," he said. "Get rid of the gasoline pumps."

About 250 of the vehicles will be made available beginning in October. A four-year lease runs $599 a month.
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[MightyMouseTech]

Hmm, at only $600/month, it might be something to consider.......

I should be able to fit a city smart and a long range diesel smart in one parking spot..

[VRsyncro]

Hmm, at only $600/month, it might be something to consider.......

I should be able to fit a city smart and a long range diesel smart in one parking spot..

Good call!

Would an electrician be able to run a 220V outlet to the garage?

[MightyMouseTech]

Good call!

Would an electrician be able to run a 220V outlet to the garage?

House garage, that is very easy. I know lots of people who have it for welders. A condo on the other hand......

[SameGuy]

Right now I'm using about $840 of diesel a year.... I would love to do it to be a bleeding-edger or early adopter, or even to make my enviro-footprint smaller. For savings? Not possible, even at 5¢ per kWh.

[gordo.bernard]

"85-mile driving range...using about $2 of electricity where a standard vehicle would consume about $12 in gas for the same distance."

At $3 US a gallon (in reality it is much less), that equals 4 gallons to go 85 miles....that is about 21 miles to a gallon.....that consumption covers alot of four passenger vehicles. Maybe they were exaggerating a little.

[Huronlad]

$2 for 85 miles is better than I am getting from my cdi. I would need some more battery capacity to get to work and back though. Maintenance costs for the ED would be a lot lower as well.

[MightyMouseTech]

Right now I'm using about $840 of diesel a year.... I would love to do it to be a bleeding-edger or early adopter, or even to make my enviro-footprint smaller. For savings? Not possible, even at 5¢ per kWh.

We now have time-of-use meters here in Ontario. My rate between 9:00 PM and 7:00 AM is only 3.3 cents/kWh.

[SameGuy]

Diesel in the States? I didn't pay a cent less than $3 a gallon last weekend (NY and PA).

Yes, that's what they said: "standard vehicle." The average car in the US is probably a bit less than that, but 21 mpg is about 11 L/100 Km and covers a broad range of four-seat cars. But how many of those four seat cars commute with only one or two passengers in them?

[SameGuy]

We now have time-of-use meters here in Ontario. My rate between 9:00 PM and 7:00 AM is only 3.3 cents/kWh.

That is cool, perfect for charging an EV -- which is usually done overnight. Overnight, most utilities have to burn off excess capacity, hence the discount in Ontario. Our power in Québec is generated almost exclusively with hydro, so when there is less demand, we just let the water rise in the reservoirs.

Here in QC, my low rate (4.33¢ before taxes) is based on ambient outdoor temperatures: when the thermometer gets below -12°, the rate jumps to about 17¢. But that is honestly only during the coldest of cold snaps. As an example, my hydro bill shows I used just 160 kWh at the high rate all of last year, out of 8110 kWh -- less than 2% of all my consumption.

Thinking about the EV again, though, about 9000 of the 20000 Km I cover each year are trips greater than the smart ED's nominal maximum range. DOH!

[Mike T]

Given the electrical system malfunctions that some have suffered in their I.C.E. smarts, I would not be too confident that a 100% electric smart would not be needing much maintenance!

[smart142]

Electric Smart car drives into town


Vehicles can travel 80 miles, then need battery recharge
By Rick Barrett of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: July 30, 2010

An all-electric version of the Daimler-Benz Smart car has come to Milwaukee, with a limited number of vehicles available for lease starting in October.

The Smart Fortwo electric is the same size as the two-seater Smart car that's powered by a gasoline engine.

With a standard 220-volt appliance line, you could charge the Smart electric's lithium-ion batteries to full capacity in eight hours and drive about 80 miles before the battery pack had to be recharged.

Don't expect neck-snapping performance. The top speed is 62 miles per hour, but the car has a "kick down" mode similar to a passing gear when you floor the gas pedal of a regular automobile.

The Smart electric uses a 30-kilowatt electric motor that generates the equivalent of about 42-horsepower, compared with a 70-horse power gasoline engine in a regular Smart car that uses premium gas and has a top speed of about 90 mph.

Made in France, the Smart electric will make its U.S. debut this fall. Only 250 vehicles will be available, nationwide, for a lease of $599 per month for 48 months. The price takes into account a $7,500 tax credit, which will go to Smart.

Starting in 2012, Daimler-Benz expects to mass produce Smart electrics for sale and lease. The vehicle's price has not yet been determined, said Derek Kaufman, vice president of business development for Smart USA.

The initial lease program would be too expensive for many consumers. But some early-technology adopters want these cars, Kaufman said, and businesses are likely to lease them to make an eco-friendly statement.

The price will come down in 2012, according to Kaufman.

Driving costs will vary, but Smart USA estimates you could travel about 100 miles on $2 worth of electricity. By comparison, it would cost about $12 to drive a regular car 100 miles if it gets 25 miles per gallon and fuel sells for $3 a gallon.

Maintenance costs could be minimal, too, since there's no internal combustion engine that requires oil changes or work on exhaust systems. Don't expect to hang on to a Smart electric car for more than 10 years, though, without having to spend about $15,000 for a new battery pack.

That price, too, should come down as the vehicles are mass produced, according to Kaufman.

The Smart Fortwo electric is a city car rather than a vehicle for long-distance trips.

There's still the nagging question of how far could you go without running out of power, said Joe Wiesenfelder, senior producer of Cars.com, a Web site for car shoppers.

"If you turn the air conditioner on, you lose driving range. If you turn the electric heater on, you lose range. If you drive on hills, that also affects things. There are a lot of variables," Wiesenfelder said.

For a variety of reasons, Daimler-Benz designed an all-electric vehicle rather than a gasoline-electric hybrid.

If the demand is strong enough, Daimler-Benz says it could gear up to build thousands of Smart electrics.

"I don't think it can hurt to do this little experiment. But I am as skeptical as I am enthusiastic about electric cars," Wiesenfelder said.

Automakers are nurturing electric vehicles, partly to cover their bets if the price of gasoline soars to $5 per gallon, said Steve Williams, professor and electrical engineering program director at Milwaukee School of Engineering.

"This would be ideal for me, and my five-mile commute to work," he said. "I think the personal transportation market is starting to fragment, with people looking at short-range vehicles" as alternatives to bigger cars.

The Smart electric can be seen at Smart Center Milwaukee, 11330 West Metro Blvd.
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[gordo.bernard]

"Don't expect to hang on to a Smart electric car for more than 10 years, though, without having to spend about $15,000 for a new battery pack.

That price, too, should come down as the vehicles are mass produced, according to Kaufman."

Call me skeptical.

The batteries are not standardized and this technology is ever changing. In ten years will there even be the proper batteries available for this car? Have you ever gone to a store to see what a replacement battery costs for your old Ni Cad 12 volt cordless drill? Look on the shelf next to it and you can buy a Lithium Ion 24 volt drill kit for just a few bucks more. Will the replacement batteries that you buy have a "build date" that is ten years old as well?

I can see the ads in auto trader in 9 years from now..."2010 smart for sale, batteries still accept a charge, $200 OBO"

Call me skeptical.

[SameGuy]

Look at it another way: Daimler has spare parts available for every single model they've ever produced that's known to still exist. Even extremely limited models, and those that are considered very pedestrian, or "cheap." It is Daimler policy.

But in reality, the Li-Ion batteries in the upcoming wave of BEVs are actually packs made up of many standard Li-Ion cells wired together in series and parallel to the required capacity and current rating. For example, the Tesla Roadster's pack -- Tesla is making the power system for the smart ED test fleet -- is made up of 6831 individual lithium-ion cells that are the same as found in most laptop battery packs.

This post has been edited by SameGuy: Jul 31 2010 - 05:17 AM

[gordo.bernard]

That is in fact true...but at what price? Is a new rear differential for a ten year old Benz really any cheaper now than it was ten years ago? Highly unlikely. And I'm sure that my first generation cordless drill could be equipped with a modified modern battery but once again at what cost? I'm just saying that this will become very expensive for some owner in the future. Maybe battery rentals with standardized formats, is the way to go in the future.

Used car buyer beware..."I pity the fool.."

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[SameGuy]

The battery-leasing paradigm, as proposed by Better Place and endorsed by Daimler's own Dr. Z, would be illegal under North American consumer law. However, Better Place's hot-swapping battery exchange idea would work. The trouble is -- as you pointed out -- a lack of standardization among makers.

[Huronlad]

"Don't expect to hang on to a Smart electric car for more than 10 years, though, without having to spend about $15,000 for a new battery pack.

That price, too, should come down as the vehicles are mass produced, according to Kaufman."

Call me skeptical.

The batteries are not standardized and this technology is ever changing. In ten years will there even be the proper batteries available for this car? Have you ever gone to a store to see what a replacement battery costs for your old Ni Cad 12 volt cordless drill? Look on the shelf next to it and you can buy a Lithium Ion 24 volt drill kit for just a few bucks more. Will the replacement batteries that you buy have a "build date" that is ten years old as well?

I can see the ads in auto trader in 9 years from now..."2010 smart for sale, batteries still accept a charge, $200 OBO"

Call me skeptical.

Why all the doom and gloom? $15000 buys a lot of Li Ion capacity, M-B would be ripping people off at those prices. By the time batteries need to be replaced, a cheaper than M-B version will likely be available. Possibly from China if the ED is being released there. Worse comes to worse a person would just have to build their own pack.

Super caps may even be ironed out in 9 or 10 years, one super cap wire it up and you are good to go.

[Huronlad]

Given the electrical system malfunctions that some have suffered in their I.C.E. smarts, I would not be too confident that a 100% electric smart would not be needing much maintenance!

The wiring will be simpler with the motor over ICE, so chances of malfunctions should be less.

[Mike T]

I am not thinking that the wiring system of the electric will be simpler.

[gordo.bernard]

"a cheaper than M-B version will likely be available"


Of all the non-accessory parts used currently in a smart (which has been on the market for more than a decade now) I would question whether you could list a dozen items that are available cheaper than OEM. By "cheaper" I only mean the definition of less expensive.


I doubt that it can be done...Gord


That's why all of these new technologies should be on a lease without a buyout option...the manufacturer can reap the government investment in R&D and still control the perceived costs and learn from the long term usage of the product.


By the way, how many people would be lining up to buy these if it wasn't for the rest of us taxpayers subsidizing the sale?



This post has been edited by gordo.bernard: Aug 1 2010 - 07:14 AM