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@  stickman007 : (29 September 2014 - 02:29 PM) I bought a set of triple square from Mac Tools...the only one I ever use was 8mm for the CV
@  Francesco : (29 September 2014 - 09:16 AM) Yeah, ok. Buddy brought over his wife's 2000 Beetle TDI for a detail and I wanted to adjust the doors, but the strikers and hinges both had triple square bolts.
@  dmoonen : (29 September 2014 - 09:01 AM) Had to buy a couple sets for working on my vw's, basicly bbs rims, axels and a outher parts require them including the injector pump on the ALH's. I don't think there's a single one on the smarts that I recall mostly torx, etorx and standard sockets.
@  dmoonen : (29 September 2014 - 08:59 AM) VW need them but smarts no so much
@  Francesco : (29 September 2014 - 08:41 AM) I never noticed, does the 450 use any triple-square bolts? Does the 451? The set will be handy for when I work on Dubs, but was wondering about smarts, too.
@  Francesco : (28 September 2014 - 09:38 PM) The turn signal bulb? Or the bulb that would normally go in the empty BA15s socket below the top brake lamp? The TS is PY21W or P21W, while the one in the empty socket is R5W (207), a 5 Watt bulb. Note than on Canadian 450s that socket isn't connected to any power or earth.
@  KurtMan : (28 September 2014 - 06:00 PM) Thanks guys, I forgot to say it's a 450.
@  FlossyTheSmart : (28 September 2014 - 05:37 PM) WHich is a yellow bulb, despite being behind a red lens
@  FlossyTheSmart : (28 September 2014 - 05:36 PM) Oh, missed the lower break light correction. I think that is a PY21W
@  FlossyTheSmart : (28 September 2014 - 05:32 PM) I want to say P21W - I was just changing bulbs on my cabrio yesterday and it's actually on the plastic casing what bulbs are meant to go there - that's what I remember. I'm sure Evilution will have it there somewhere too.
@  marchanna : (28 September 2014 - 03:07 PM) I'm not sure if 450's are the same
@  marchanna : (28 September 2014 - 03:07 PM) On 451 models it's a 7528
@  marchanna : (28 September 2014 - 03:03 PM) What year?
@  KurtMan : (28 September 2014 - 02:52 PM) *I should specify lower break light.
@  KurtMan : (28 September 2014 - 02:48 PM) Does anyone know what the bulb type is in the lower part of a cabrio tail light?
@  amr530711 : (27 September 2014 - 02:16 PM) it's got a hard short on the black cable running from the positive post to the rear of the car - does that connect to the starter or to the alternator? This car seems to eat alternators, and the blackout happened at roughly the same time as the alternator would kick in, just a couple of seconds after moving forward.
@  stickman007 : (27 September 2014 - 01:52 PM) Check your connection at the battery terminals? I think somebody here in the forum had the battery cable melted once...
@  amr530711 : (27 September 2014 - 11:55 AM) hey everyone! I'm having a hard time with the new search, I'm looking for information about a total electrical failure. I started the car, drove about 50 feet, it bucked, the instrument cluster went out, back on, then completely off. and now I have no electrics at all. no four way flashers, can't roll up the window, car won't lock, absolutely nothing happens when I turn the key. Not sure what words to use in the search. any help would be appreciated
@  Francesco : (27 September 2014 - 07:10 AM) And a whole set of triple square bits off Amazon for $25. SnapOn rep said they're special order, and each bit is close to $30!!!
@  Francesco : (26 September 2014 - 07:15 PM) Just ordered some more Meguiars goodies from Autogeek

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Rustproofing


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46 replies to this topic

#1 Graham

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 03:37 PM

The car we just bought has been driven through three winters. So it has seen salt. I see some surface rust on wheel hubs, and some other underbody parts. Also in engine bay on something I have not checked out - looks like shock/spring support on passenger side, forward and outboard of engine.Has anyone had their car rust proofed or perhaps done it themselves?
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#2 Leadwing

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:26 PM

The car we just bought has been driven through three winters. So it has seen salt.

I see some surface rust on wheel hubs, and some other underbody parts. Also in engine bay on something I have not checked out - looks like shock/spring support on passenger side, forward and outboard of engine.

Has anyone had their car rust proofed or perhaps done it themselves?

I'm getting mine done next week by Krown Rustproofing. The experts here and most other places will tell you not to allow holes to be drilled in the tridion.

I agree with their reasoning and have asked them not to drill, even though this is their normal way of getting their product into the nooks and crannys. Access to the tridion for rust protection purposes is easy to find. On the coupes, when the hatch is open, there are 2 rubber plugs revealed across the top which can be removed and the protectant sprayed in. Also removing the tail light assembly (2 - 10mm plastic nuts on each side)and the cavity is revealed.

Removing the plastic access grilles to the windsheild washer fluid and the one on the other side as well reveals the tops of the front suspension which could use some spray.

I highly recommend Krown. They have sprayed my 22 year old Honda since new and there is stll no signs of rust on it.

Whoever you chose to have this done by, make sure they understand that you don't want holes drilled in it.

I will post results (time to do the job and cost) next week.
You are what you drive

'05 smart pulse "Bruised" (bought used with 94,000kms on it, Sept. 23/09)

'06 smart Passion Cab. "Silverwing" (bought 'gently used' with 4,800 kms on it, Nov. 22/10)

'95 Jeep "winter-beater" (bought used in 1996 with 6,000 kms on it) Sold... June 30/12 with 297,900 kms on it.

'96 Honda Civic, "Dimples", that serves as my wife's bus

'89 Civic "Old Faithful" (bought new in the fall of 1988) Still waiting for the first light bulb to blow. A/C has never been serviced and still chills the cabin area in less than 3 minutes.

and a gaggle of motorcycles including the 35th GoldWing ever made with over 591,000 miles on it. "yeehawww"
.. List of all 15 upon request

#3 Mike T

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 04:44 PM

The rocker panels are reached through the drain slots. As is the front member area around the wheel wells.
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection

#4 Graham

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 06:36 PM

Hmm - So some are getting it done. I use Krown for my other cars, but there is so little to the Smart, that is why I asked. maybe easy enough to DIY. They sell kits for the purpose at CT, I think. BTW - Previous owner said he was told by dealer that it was not necessary. Are the structural parts not galvanized?
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#5 Mike T

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 07:07 PM

Nothing is galvanized, certainly not the tridion. And galvanizing does not prevent rust.
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection

#6 bilgladstone

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 07:21 PM

Are the structural parts not galvanized?

Powder-coated ... even better :thumbup:
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#7 Graham

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 07:44 PM

And galvanizing does not prevent rust.

??????? Might not "prevent" it, but it sure slows it down! Otherwise why would car manufacturers do it? Almost all modern cars use galvanized sheet metal parts. They may call it zinc coated, but in effect it is the same. Apparently the Smart does have the usual Mercedes corrosion treatment: "Regarding rust, the smart fortwo’s steel body is fully zinc plated. As a further provision against corrosion, there is a coat of cataphoretic paint under the main powder-coat paint, and all body cavities are preserved by a special agent. Finally, the body panels and complete underbody are made of plastic (polypropylene), which are not prone to rust even if scratched. " That's nice to know! Wish they had done a little more on our E-Class!
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#8 Mike T

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 08:05 PM

The 451 may be galvanized but the 450 was not. It was just phosphated and coated electrophoretically, then powder coated (BTW, black cars have thicker powder coating).I have seen rusted out cars in Ontario and Québec that were galvanized - the few microns of Zn are sacrificial, and once it is eaten away by salts, the steel is next. If you have ever had a boat that is moored in salt water, you would know how this works!
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection

#9 Graham

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 05:54 AM

The 451 may be galvanized but the 450 was not. It was just phosphated and coated electrophoretically, then powder coated (BTW, black cars have thicker powder coating). I have seen rusted out cars in Ontario and Québec that were galvanized - the few microns of Zn are sacrificial, and once it is eaten away by salts, the steel is next. If you have ever had a boat that is moored in salt water, you would know how this works!

I looked for but could not find the corrosion control specs for the 04-06 cdis sold in Canada. Not that I don't believe you, but is that documented somewhere? If the old Smarts don't have any galvanizing, it would be interesting to hear if any owners have had corrosion problems. In reading the '06 corrosion warranty, it excludes surface corrosion or perforation caused by road salt! So, not much of a warranty it would seem? But I have had good luck dealing with MB on corrosion issues on my W210. Regarding galvanizing - I had a Chev Tahoe that met an untimely death in an accident when it was about 11 years old. The driver door was ripped open. It was interesting to note that the inside lower half of the doors were galvanized and were still bright and shiny - No rust anywhere on car, probably helped considerably by Krown treatment. Re marine environments - I have spent a lifetime around boats as well as in chemical industry! Long enough to know that any steel parts or structures have to be galvanized so they last more than a few months ;) Otherwise paint and paint and more paint :)

Edited by Graham, 11 September 2010 - 05:56 AM.

'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#10 Mike T

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Posted 11 September 2010 - 10:06 AM

The information I posted above is from the smart Teach technical documentation CD, which is official smart training material from 2004. It's as official as it comes.I have seen photos of some 450s from Eastern Canada with serious corrosion in the seams on the floor, so you are wise to think of adding to the basic protection the car comes with.I spoke with some guys who had to replace the sacrificial zinc anodes on some steel-piled wharf structures on Thetis Island a couple of months ago. Those suckers weigh in a a couple of hundred kg each and they cost a LOT, and last a few years before the entire mass is gone through galvanic corrosion catalyzed by the salty water.Ironically, when car bodyshells are made of galvanized sheet, the points of greatest risk for corrosion are those that you least want to suffer it: the spot welds. I learned this on a car factory tour in Europe in 1986. Weldable zinc primers aren't used in factory bodyshell assembly, and they're not as good as Zn plating anyway...
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
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2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection

#11 Graham

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:16 PM

The information I posted above is from the smart Teach technical documentation CD, which is official smart training material from 2004. It's as official as it comes. I have seen photos of some 450s from Eastern Canada with serious corrosion in the seams on the floor, so you are wise to think of adding to the basic protection the car comes with. I spoke with some guys who had to replace the sacrificial zinc anodes on some steel-piled wharf structures on Thetis Island a couple of months ago. Those suckers weigh in a a couple of hundred kg each and they cost a LOT, and last a few years before the entire mass is gone through galvanic corrosion catalyzed by the salty water. Ironically, when car bodyshells are made of galvanized sheet, the points of greatest risk for corrosion are those that you least want to suffer it: the spot welds. I learned this on a car factory tour in Europe in 1986. Weldable zinc primers aren't used in factory bodyshell assembly, and they're not as good as Zn plating anyway...

Is it possible to buy or otherwise get the Tech Data CD? MB publish TDMs for some of their cars - very useful. I had a look under car - just engine area. There are signs of rust. Wonder if Corrosion warranty covers this type of rust?? I know they did fix something similar on my E320 out of warranty. RUST_SPRING_SUPPORT.jpg RUST_TUBE_FRAME__1.jpg RUST_TUBEFRAME__2.jpg RUST_UNDER__1.jpg RUST_UNDER__2.jpg RUST_UNDER__3.jpg RUST_DRIVESHAFT.jpg I did not remove the plastic under panels - Is that where the floor seams are? Any other owners in salty areas have rust (under warranty??) and what have you done about it?
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#12 Mike T

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:32 PM

Yeah a fair number of eastern cars look like that. The box sections would benefit from sprayed wax. The seam rust I saw photos of was visible by lifting the driver's carpet. If you are not going to keep driving it in winter, you should clean that stuff up and treat it with ZINGA or a similar product.
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection

#13 Mike T

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:33 PM

I got a copy of the Tech CD from a guy in Britain and I could possibly be convinced to burn a copy. It is not a manual, just a technical description of the cars...
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection

#14 Graham

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:13 PM

Yeah a fair number of eastern cars look like that. The box sections would benefit from sprayed wax. The seam rust I saw photos of was visible by lifting the driver's carpet. If you are not going to keep driving it in winter, you should clean that stuff up and treat it with ZINGA or a similar product.

True that there is not much and it is easily fixed. But I may ask dealer what they think about it. Two areas are structural and I would probably have to wire brush them first. I would probably apply POR15 to the visibly rusted areas and then spray inside and outside the box sections with rustproofing (available in spray cans or for use with a special air gun sold at CT and elsewhere). Krown and Rust Check kind of overdo the spraying, especially around engine bays - I end up wiping most of it off! Sounds like the floor pan rusting may be from inside. I do intend to pull out the carpets and have a better look . But lifting edges and peeking didn't show any rust. BTW-My 300D has it's own rust proofing. Enough small oil and fuel drips to keep underside of car well oiled :) But I get it treated anyway!
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#15 bilgladstone

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:25 PM

... in spray cans or for use with a special air gun sold at CT and elsewhere...

Please tell me about this special air gun. Is it for other materials too? :senile:
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#16 Graham

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 04:58 PM

Please tell me about this special air gun. Is it for other materials too? :senile:

I can't find the CT one on-line, but it is something like the one in this link. It is designed to screw directly into the metal rust proofing cans. http://www.tptools.c...-Spray-Gun.html Haven't checked if CT still have this, but they did last time I looked about a year ago.
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#17 Francesco

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:02 PM

I believe they do, might even be a Campbell-Hausfeld part.
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#18 gordo.bernard

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:11 PM

If you google images of SHUTZ GUN you will find a bunch...Gord

#19 bilgladstone

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:24 PM

OT here a bit.

I can't find the CT one on-line, but it is something like the one in this link. It is designed to screw directly into the metal rust proofing cans. http://www.tptools.c...-Spray-Gun.html Haven't checked if CT still have this, but they did last time I looked about a year ago.

Ah... thanks. I've been looking for a spray extension to fit an aerosol can. The only one I could find (perfect - a very nice one!) is sold by a US firm that won't ship to Canada. Any pointers? B :senile:
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#20 houseofdiesel

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 03:05 PM

Be sure to remove the carpets and clean the floors and battery box, and carefully clean the ground cable on the battery a very common corrosion area. Blow the engine bay with compressed air and spray Krown or similar product on parts that are rusting, injectors, etc be sure to soak the glow plugs. I removed my nose section and found quiet a few places to run the oil spray line, up the windshield pillars, inside the door pillars, bumper re bar, the are many places you can remove a rubber grommet and soak inside I have all my own rustproofing lines and gun. I use a thick product that is wax based, less running and not harmful to rubber seals. There is nothing inside the doors to spray, all alloy construction. You could grease the cables for the power windows though. I have yet to get into the rear of my car, I haven't exposed it to salt yet so no hurry...I did remove the floor pan covers, everything was very well sprayed from the factory. Other areas to lube-Grease the antenna whip threads, remove the door handles and soak the door latches, clutch actuator, park brake cable mechanism where it comes out of the interior of the car (from below), wiper arm pivots points, all hinges on the door and hatch.They are easy cars to rustproof due to size, and not very complicated. I wonder how long it will be before I see the plastic drilled on the doors for oil spraying...
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#21 Graham

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 05:16 PM

Be sure to remove the carpets and clean the floors and battery box, and carefully clean the ground cable on the battery a very common corrosion area. Blow the engine bay with compressed air and spray Krown or similar product on parts that are rusting, injectors, etc be sure to soak the glow plugs. I removed my nose section and found quiet a few places to run the oil spray line, up the windshield pillars, inside the door pillars, bumper re bar, the are many places you can remove a rubber grommet and soak inside I have all my own rustproofing lines and gun. I use a thick product that is wax based, less running and not harmful to rubber seals. There is nothing inside the doors to spray, all alloy construction. You could grease the cables for the power windows though. I have yet to get into the rear of my car, I haven't exposed it to salt yet so no hurry...I did remove the floor pan covers, everything was very well sprayed from the factory. Other areas to lube- Grease the antenna whip threads, remove the door handles and soak the door latches, clutch actuator, park brake cable mechanism where it comes out of the interior of the car (from below), wiper arm pivots points, all hinges on the door and hatch. They are easy cars to rustproof due to size, and not very complicated. I wonder how long it will be before I see the plastic drilled on the doors for oil spraying...

It would be a lot easier to just take it into Krown or Rust Check, but somehow, I don't think they would know what to do! Maybe I should drive it up to Ottawa and let you do it :) or by the gun and do it myself. But doubt my little compressor would hack it.
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#22 Graham

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 02:49 PM

I believe they do, might even be a Campbell-Hausfeld part.

I was in CT today - They do still have Rust Check in screwtop cans (takes two for a medium size car, so perhaps one for a Smart, with some left over ;) ). The container says to use a Shutz gun. They have those too for $27.99, IIRC. Total is about $50.00. Some had Krown do the job for that, but it does need to be done yearly. One thing I could not find at store, was what pressure the gun needed. It was labelled as from Dominion Sure Seal. It is shown in this link, but I could not open the tech specs (I don't have new version of Word). http://www.dominions...e...45&catid=38

Edited by Graham, 15 September 2010 - 05:01 PM.

'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#23 Leadwing

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 06:09 PM

I was in CT today - They do still have Rust Check in screwtop cans (takes two for a medium size car, so perhaps one for a Smart, with some left over ;) ). The container says to use a Shutz gun. They have those too for $27.99, IIRC. Total is about $50.00. Some had Krown do the job for that, but it does need to be done yearly. One thing I could not find at store, was what pressure the gun needed. It was labelled as from Dominion Sure Seal. It is shown in this link, but I could not open the tech specs (I don't have new version of Word). http://www.dominions...e...45&catid=38

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You are what you drive

'05 smart pulse "Bruised" (bought used with 94,000kms on it, Sept. 23/09)

'06 smart Passion Cab. "Silverwing" (bought 'gently used' with 4,800 kms on it, Nov. 22/10)

'95 Jeep "winter-beater" (bought used in 1996 with 6,000 kms on it) Sold... June 30/12 with 297,900 kms on it.

'96 Honda Civic, "Dimples", that serves as my wife's bus

'89 Civic "Old Faithful" (bought new in the fall of 1988) Still waiting for the first light bulb to blow. A/C has never been serviced and still chills the cabin area in less than 3 minutes.

and a gaggle of motorcycles including the 35th GoldWing ever made with over 591,000 miles on it. "yeehawww"
.. List of all 15 upon request

#24 houseofdiesel

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:51 PM

You can buy the guns at Napa stores or other autoparts suppliers like them. I don't think CDN tire has anything for rustproofing, only thicker stuff like undercoating. http://www.dominions...e...89&catid=28 You want a gun that has multiple hoses that attach so you can reach down the pillars and along rocker panels etc. It will cost about the same as having one professional treatment ($100-120) but then you have it and can use it on everything (snowblowers, trailers, lawnmower, anything metal). I use a very thick product like this http://www.dominions...e...54&catid=28 The spray cans like rustchek and krown tend to destroy rubber parts like door seals (the rubber expands/swells), where the thick stuff is easier to apply and clean up afterwards and doesn't run allover. Greg
2008 Mercedes R320 CDI, 2006 Pure cabrio CDI, 2000 Jetta GLS TDI, 1996 VW Passat TDI, 1984 Winnebago Lesharo td, projects-1989 Audi 100Q, 1986 Audi 4000Q, 1986 Peugeot 505 turbo, 1983 Mercedes 240D, 2X1983 Mercedes 300SD, 1982 VW Vanagon diesel, 1978 Lincoln Continental 7.5L

#25 Graham

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 02:37 PM

You can buy the guns at Napa stores or other autoparts suppliers like them. I don't think CDN tire has anything for rustproofing, only thicker stuff like undercoating. http://www.dominions...e...89&catid=28 You want a gun that has multiple hoses that attach so you can reach down the pillars and along rocker panels etc. It will cost about the same as having one professional treatment ($100-120) but then you have it and can use it on everything (snowblowers, trailers, lawnmower, anything metal). I use a very thick product like this http://www.dominions...e...54&catid=28 The spray cans like rustchek and krown tend to destroy rubber parts like door seals (the rubber expands/swells), where the thick stuff is easier to apply and clean up afterwards and doesn't run allover. Greg

Greg - They do have rustproofing stuff It is in same area as the thick undercoating. It is Rust-Check, but it is in about pint sized screw top cans - not the spray bombs. And it says right on it to use the Shutz gun, which they also sell on same shelf. Not as good as the pro equipment though and you are right about the extension hoses and tubes. I would like to use the no-drip stuff, although the shops charge quite a bit more for it. My 300D dripped all summer after Krown treatment last Fall. I thought I had a fuel leak.
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#26 Francesco

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 02:41 PM

Thanks for the info Greg.
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#27 marc25v

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 08:29 PM

Overall though, do you guys (and girls ;) ) recommend rustproofing a 451? In the manual they actually state that the car should NOT be rustproofed as it would remove/mess up the factory protection.Thanks.

Edited by marc25v, 21 September 2010 - 08:29 PM.


#28 Leadwing

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 03:29 PM

Overall though, do you guys (and girls ;) ) recommend rustproofing a 451? In the manual they actually state that the car should NOT be rustproofed as it would remove/mess up the factory protection. Thanks.

Can you get it in writing from MB that your smart will be covered against rust perforation without aftermarket (Krown or Rust-Check) rust prevention techniques? If not, I would do it. (My personal opinion only, not based on scientific facts)
You are what you drive

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#29 Graham

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 04:38 PM

Can you get it in writing from MB that your smart will be covered against rust perforation without aftermarket (Krown or Rust-Check) rust prevention techniques? If not, I would do it. (My personal opinion only, not based on scientific facts)

The warranty does have it in writing. But it is best to read the small print! It excludes a number of things including the underside of the car. On MBs, they said the same thing - not to use aftermarket rustproofing. But many MBs in the late 90's early 2000's had serious rust problems, mostly on the underside of the car! The dealer suggested I get my MB to Krown, and I did! I did read that the 451s have some galvanizing - that would help. But it sounds like they may have MB wax type rust coating too. Maybe they are concerned that some aftermarket rust treatments may dissolve or other wise reduce effectiveness of their system? There is so little to the smart, that is hard to justify a Krown treatment - I think I am going to try and do our cdi myself. PS: This is what one link said about the 451 rustproofing - seems well protected:

Regarding rust, the smart fortwo's steel body is fully zinc-plated. As a further provision against corrosion, there is a coat of cataphoretic paint under the main powder-coat paint, and all body cavities are preserved by a special agent. Finally, the body panels and complete underbody are made of plastic (polypropylene), which are not prone to rust even if scratched.


'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#30 houseofdiesel

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 09:11 AM

All manufactures recommend against rust proofing, they just don't want to deal with it-some products are really hard on rubber seals etc and trim, it sags down off the doors and hangs out of the car. Warranty claims would not like that!Mercedes is the ONLY manufacturer to put in writing that salt exposure VOIDS the warranty (well, atleast not grounds for warranty-why else would a car rust?)...I would rust proof given that fact. Read your warranty book that came with the smart, very amusing, almost like saying what warranty.I have seen some rusty parts on smarts, especially in the engine bay. I am thinking if I ever winter drive mine I will seal the engine bay off including the intercooler scoop from the underside of the car. The salt really collects back there, I have never worked on another car where oil lines are rusted out after 3 years (look at your turbo oil drain tube!). I think a wax based one is best, and you have to respray the whole car constantly with it, only the high exposure areas.Greg
2008 Mercedes R320 CDI, 2006 Pure cabrio CDI, 2000 Jetta GLS TDI, 1996 VW Passat TDI, 1984 Winnebago Lesharo td, projects-1989 Audi 100Q, 1986 Audi 4000Q, 1986 Peugeot 505 turbo, 1983 Mercedes 240D, 2X1983 Mercedes 300SD, 1982 VW Vanagon diesel, 1978 Lincoln Continental 7.5L

#31 natedawgrex

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 09:52 AM

Does anyone have any thoughts on the electronic rust control systems they sell at CTC.

#32 Mike T

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 11:28 AM

It's been discussed here before in other threads; basic conclusion: they don't work.
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#33 derekbrochu

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 06:28 AM

So for rust proof ing do we have to take off all the pannels? that seems very Tedious. :exclamation: :suicide_anim: :exclamation:
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#34 Fedon

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 08:10 PM

I just rust proofed my '05 passion today. I took it to a Krown rustproofing place but he said there wasn't much he could do so I took it upon myself. I bought 4 litres of thier T40 rustproofing and used a Wurth rustproofing/ undercoating gun. The gun is my fathers but I don't believe it's to expensive but I can tell you that the little nozzels and hoses do a damn fine job of letting you get every inch covered. As for the nitty gritty; I removed the front grill and panels, headlights assembly, rear panels, tail lights, and of course the belly pans. It is a bit of work but this gives you access to 99% of the places you want rustproofing. The best part about this stuff is that it doesn't harm rubber/plastic so you can go nuts with it!Some things I have learned: 1) the passenger side pillar is extremely hard to get to. There is no access hole like the driver side and it's not a good idea to drill any holes in the Tridon safety cell. I sprayed up as far as I could but theres not alot you can do for the passenger side pillar. 2) A place EVERYONE should at least spray some WD40 or Honey Goo if you don't have any rustproofing is underneath the front windshield moulding at the bottom of the windshield. I stuck the tip of the hose in the corners and sprayed right across the entire lip. Right away I noticed water being displaced from the area. Do yourself a favour and spray this area!Some people say the car is not rustproofing but for the little amount of time and effort it takes to do one of these cars it is cheap insurance.

#35 Mike T

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 10:34 PM

Whipping out the taillights (on the cabriolet at least) gives full access to the LH and RH rocker panels. I should imagine that the coupé is the same.
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#36 Leadwing

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 10:55 PM

Whipping out the taillights (on the cabriolet at least) gives full access to the LH and RH rocker panels. I should imagine that the coupé is the same.

It is
You are what you drive

'05 smart pulse "Bruised" (bought used with 94,000kms on it, Sept. 23/09)

'06 smart Passion Cab. "Silverwing" (bought 'gently used' with 4,800 kms on it, Nov. 22/10)

'95 Jeep "winter-beater" (bought used in 1996 with 6,000 kms on it) Sold... June 30/12 with 297,900 kms on it.

'96 Honda Civic, "Dimples", that serves as my wife's bus

'89 Civic "Old Faithful" (bought new in the fall of 1988) Still waiting for the first light bulb to blow. A/C has never been serviced and still chills the cabin area in less than 3 minutes.

and a gaggle of motorcycles including the 35th GoldWing ever made with over 591,000 miles on it. "yeehawww"
.. List of all 15 upon request

#37 Mike T

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 11:06 PM

I think Fedon did that, but it's something you can do even with a spray can of Rust Check.
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection

#38 Duck

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 06:25 AM

Does anyone have any thoughts on the electronic rust control systems they sell at CTC.

I have/had one in my '06 smart. I can't say difinitivley that it did or did not work; all I can say is that there's no body rust at all on my car.

What there is a lot of, is a massive pool of corrosion/white cake around the "sacrificial electrodes" that the module uses. It made an absolute mess of the passenger footwell, where it's mounted. You lift up the carpet and the entire area is just caked with white powder and grit everywhere.

In general, I think you'll find that for cars from the '80's and '90's, yeah - it made sense... but now-a-days, paint is so much better and the steel is thicker, so it's not as much of an issue.

-Iain

Edited by Duck, 14 November 2010 - 06:26 AM.

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#39 Graham

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 07:29 AM

OT here a bit. Ah... thanks. I've been looking for a spray extension to fit an aerosol can. The only one I could find (perfect - a very nice one!) is sold by a US firm that won't ship to Canada. Any pointers? B :senile:

Is this the US one (Harbor Freight) http://images.harbor...0-1999/1102.pdf I see that CT sell both thin Rust Check for spraying inside panels where penetration into seams is needed as well as a thicker no drip material for external surfaces. These are in pint size cans that screw onto the Shutz type gun that they also sell. But this gun does not have long extensions like the commercial oil spray equipment. HofD says those are available at Napa. All of these also need an air compressor. I have one, but it is more of a tire inflator than a compressor (no tank) so haven't done anything yet!
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#40 Graham

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 07:30 AM

I have/had one in my '06 smart. I can't say difinitivley that it did or did not work; all I can say is that there's no body rust at all on my car.

What there is a lot of, is a massive pool of corrosion/white cake around the "sacrificial electrodes" that the module uses. It made an absolute mess of the passenger footwell, where it's mounted. You lift up the carpet and the entire area is just caked with white powder and grit everywhere.

In general, I think you'll find that for cars from the '80's and '90's, yeah - it made sense... but now-a-days, paint is so much better and the steel is thicker, so it's not as much of an issue.

-Iain


I had a quick look at those units at CT - I think I read on box that they are guaranteed, but only if CT install them!
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#41 houseofdiesel

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 11:38 AM

I bought one of those units, I have not installed it yet simple due to time...In order for it to work on the parts that actually rust like brakes and suspension it needs to be grounded properly, all those parts are rubber mounted so the unit would have no effect. I plan on grounding my suspension to the car body so it protects all the parts of the car, just a 10guage wire and self tapping screws or something like that.It is worth doing it yourself and taking a full day of your weekend to pull everything off and spray it yourself, the front of the car accesses everything-the a pillars etc. the wand goes deep into the car with the nose off. I haven't pulled my rear end off yet, no time maybe this week as the car is already parked for the winter. If you use a no drip product once every couple of years is fine, the oil type stuff diasppears quick.Paint is better these days but metal is actually thinner in my opinion. Computer modeling allows them to cut it really thin so the car weights less and stress modeling lets them design the car so it has meat where it needs it and thiness where it doesn't. Cars dent alot easier nowadays compared with 70s metal!
2008 Mercedes R320 CDI, 2006 Pure cabrio CDI, 2000 Jetta GLS TDI, 1996 VW Passat TDI, 1984 Winnebago Lesharo td, projects-1989 Audi 100Q, 1986 Audi 4000Q, 1986 Peugeot 505 turbo, 1983 Mercedes 240D, 2X1983 Mercedes 300SD, 1982 VW Vanagon diesel, 1978 Lincoln Continental 7.5L

#42 Mike T

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 01:01 PM

The Japanese brands actually use thicker gauge steel in the exported cars (N America) than they do in their domestic ones! Ha!
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#43 Fedon

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 02:29 PM

I think Fedon did that, but it's something you can do even with a spray can of Rust Check.

You are correct. The tail lights give you access to the tridon. The good part about using the gun with a nozzle at the end of a hose is that it allows you to spray up the back as well as down to the rockers. Has anyone checked that lip under thier windshield?

#44 Kofångar-Lasse

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 02:54 PM


After removing the rear wheel arches AND the inner archers, I've
found some hidden and plugged holes in the Tridion to use for
rustproofing works. Remove the undertray, and You will find more
holes to axcess for the same purpous.

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#45 fordnut71

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:04 AM

i bought 2 cans of rust check from canadian tire. 1 was the light red an the other was the thicker white stuff. i pulled of the front an rear clips an lights. i sprayed into every lil gape in the metal i could find, sprayed it till it came pouring out some where else. the thicker stuff i used for areas that just needed a coating. even pulled foam block an moved the carpet back an did the flooring under the feet. but for those of you who dont know rust check is best applyed when its warm out an less chance of rain for a few days. it does take time for it to dry in an it will wash away in rain.

#46 Graham

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:10 AM

i bought 2 cans of rust check from canadian tire. 1 was the light red an the other was the thicker white stuff. i pulled of the front an rear clips an lights. i sprayed into every lil gape in the metal i could find, sprayed it till it came pouring out some where else. the thicker stuff i used for areas that just needed a coating. even pulled foam block an moved the carpet back an did the flooring under the feet. but for those of you who dont know rust check is best applyed when its warm out an less chance of rain for a few days. it does take time for it to dry in an it will wash away in rain.

Did you use a spray gun, or were those aerosol cans?
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320

#47 fordnut71

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:32 AM

Did you use a spray gun, or were those aerosol cans?

just the $10 aerosol cans.




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