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Rustproofing
Graham
post Sep 14 2010 - 05:16 PM
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QUOTE (houseofdiesel @ Sep 14 2010 - 07:05 PM) *
Be sure to remove the carpets and clean the floors and battery box, and carefully clean the ground cable on the battery a very common corrosion area. Blow the engine bay with compressed air and spray Krown or similar product on parts that are rusting, injectors, etc be sure to soak the glow plugs.
I removed my nose section and found quiet a few places to run the oil spray line, up the windshield pillars, inside the door pillars, bumper re bar, the are many places you can remove a rubber grommet and soak inside I have all my own rustproofing lines and gun. I use a thick product that is wax based, less running and not harmful to rubber seals. There is nothing inside the doors to spray, all alloy construction. You could grease the cables for the power windows though.
I have yet to get into the rear of my car, I haven't exposed it to salt yet so no hurry...I did remove the floor pan covers, everything was very well sprayed from the factory. Other areas to lube-
Grease the antenna whip threads, remove the door handles and soak the door latches, clutch actuator, park brake cable mechanism where it comes out of the interior of the car (from below), wiper arm pivots points, all hinges on the door and hatch.
They are easy cars to rustproof due to size, and not very complicated. I wonder how long it will be before I see the plastic drilled on the doors for oil spraying...


It would be a lot easier to just take it into Krown or Rust Check, but somehow, I don't think they would know what to do! Maybe I should drive it up to Ottawa and let you do it smile.gif or by the gun and do it myself. But doubt my little compressor would hack it.


--------------------
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320
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Graham
post Sep 15 2010 - 02:49 PM
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QUOTE (SameGuy @ Sep 12 2010 - 09:02 PM) *
I believe they do, might even be a Campbell-Hausfeld part.


I was in CT today - They do still have Rust Check in screwtop cans (takes two for a medium size car, so perhaps one for a Smart, with some left over wink.gif ). The container says to use a Shutz gun. They have those too for $27.99, IIRC. Total is about $50.00. Some had Krown do the job for that, but it does need to be done yearly.

One thing I could not find at store, was what pressure the gun needed. It was labelled as from Dominion Sure Seal. It is shown in this link, but I could not open the tech specs (I don't have new version of Word).

http://www.dominionsureseal.com/productsde...45&catid=38

This post has been edited by Graham: Sep 15 2010 - 05:01 PM


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'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320
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Leadwing
post Sep 15 2010 - 06:09 PM
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QUOTE (Graham @ Sep 15 2010 - 06:49 PM) *
I was in CT today - They do still have Rust Check in screwtop cans (takes two for a medium size car, so perhaps one for a Smart, with some left over wink.gif ). The container says to use a Shutz gun. They have those too for $27.99, IIRC. Total is about $50.00. Some had Krown do the job for that, but it does need to be done yearly.

One thing I could not find at store, was what pressure the gun needed. It was labelled as from Dominion Sure Seal. It is shown in this link, but I could not open the tech specs (I don't have new version of Word).

http://www.dominionsureseal.com/productsde...45&catid=38

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--------------------
You are what you drive

'05 smart pulse "Bruised" (bought used with 94,000kms on it, Sept. 23/09)

'06 smart Passion Cab. "Silverwing" (bought 'gently used' with 4,800 kms on it, Nov. 22/10)

'95 Jeep "winter-beater" (bought used in 1996 with 6,000 kms on it) Sold... June 30/12 with 297,900 kms on it.

'96 Honda Civic, "Dimples", that serves as my wife's bus

'89 Civic "Old Faithful" (bought new in the fall of 1988) Still waiting for the first light bulb to blow. A/C has never been serviced and still chills the cabin area in less than 3 minutes.

and a gaggle of motorcycles including the 35th GoldWing ever made with over 591,000 miles on it. "yeehawww"
.. List of all 15 upon request
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houseofdiesel
post Sep 16 2010 - 01:51 PM
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You can buy the guns at Napa stores or other autoparts suppliers like them. I don't think CDN tire has anything for rustproofing, only thicker stuff like undercoating. http://www.dominionsureseal.com/productsde...89&catid=28
You want a gun that has multiple hoses that attach so you can reach down the pillars and along rocker panels etc. It will cost about the same as having one professional treatment ($100-120) but then you have it and can use it on everything (snowblowers, trailers, lawnmower, anything metal). I use a very thick product like this http://www.dominionsureseal.com/productsde...54&catid=28
The spray cans like rustchek and krown tend to destroy rubber parts like door seals (the rubber expands/swells), where the thick stuff is easier to apply and clean up afterwards and doesn't run allover.
Greg


--------------------
2008 Mercedes R320 CDI, 2006 Pure cabrio CDI, 2000 Jetta GLS TDI, 1996 VW Passat TDI, 1984 Winnebago Lesharo td, projects-1989 Audi 100Q, 1986 Audi 4000Q, 1986 Peugeot 505 turbo, 1983 Mercedes 240D, 2X1983 Mercedes 300SD, 1982 VW Vanagon diesel, 1978 Lincoln Continental 7.5L
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Graham
post Sep 16 2010 - 02:37 PM
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"Our" departed smart. It was fun.


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QUOTE (houseofdiesel @ Sep 16 2010 - 05:51 PM) *
You can buy the guns at Napa stores or other autoparts suppliers like them. I don't think CDN tire has anything for rustproofing, only thicker stuff like undercoating. http://www.dominionsureseal.com/productsde...89&catid=28
You want a gun that has multiple hoses that attach so you can reach down the pillars and along rocker panels etc. It will cost about the same as having one professional treatment ($100-120) but then you have it and can use it on everything (snowblowers, trailers, lawnmower, anything metal). I use a very thick product like this http://www.dominionsureseal.com/productsde...54&catid=28
The spray cans like rustchek and krown tend to destroy rubber parts like door seals (the rubber expands/swells), where the thick stuff is easier to apply and clean up afterwards and doesn't run allover.
Greg


Greg - They do have rustproofing stuff It is in same area as the thick undercoating. It is Rust-Check, but it is in about pint sized screw top cans - not the spray bombs. And it says right on it to use the Shutz gun, which they also sell on same shelf. Not as good as the pro equipment though and you are right about the extension hoses and tubes. I would like to use the no-drip stuff, although the shops charge quite a bit more for it. My 300D dripped all summer after Krown treatment last Fall. I thought I had a fuel leak.


--------------------
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320
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Francesco
post Sep 16 2010 - 02:41 PM
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Thanks for the info Greg.


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Francesco



2006 fortwo cdi pulse cabrio phat red/silver|heated leather|PLUS|sound|rack||mods OE cruise|Cabriotec heated glass rear window|all-LED EU lamps front & rear|OE mud-flaps|colour-coded|garage opener|wiper nozzle|SGII|remap|spin-on oil filter|K&N air filter|RS grille|de Dion caps|Hella Micro DE fogs|MDC sucker|R1 Concepts brakes|TK's restrictor mod|LED angel eyes|Wolo horn|No More Slammin'|stainless EGR delete|RS paddles||coming up Blindy|Forge TIK|Bilstein|torque damper|Morimoto||wishlist Monoblock A|more leather||
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marc25v
post Sep 21 2010 - 08:29 PM
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Overall though, do you guys (and girls wink.gif ) recommend rustproofing a 451? In the manual they actually state that the car should NOT be rustproofed as it would remove/mess up the factory protection.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by marc25v: Sep 21 2010 - 08:29 PM
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Leadwing
post Sep 22 2010 - 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (marc25v @ Sep 22 2010 - 12:29 AM) *
Overall though, do you guys (and girls wink.gif ) recommend rustproofing a 451? In the manual they actually state that the car should NOT be rustproofed as it would remove/mess up the factory protection.

Thanks.

Can you get it in writing from MB that your smart will be covered against rust perforation without aftermarket (Krown or Rust-Check) rust prevention techniques? If not, I would do it. (My personal opinion only, not based on scientific facts)


--------------------
You are what you drive

'05 smart pulse "Bruised" (bought used with 94,000kms on it, Sept. 23/09)

'06 smart Passion Cab. "Silverwing" (bought 'gently used' with 4,800 kms on it, Nov. 22/10)

'95 Jeep "winter-beater" (bought used in 1996 with 6,000 kms on it) Sold... June 30/12 with 297,900 kms on it.

'96 Honda Civic, "Dimples", that serves as my wife's bus

'89 Civic "Old Faithful" (bought new in the fall of 1988) Still waiting for the first light bulb to blow. A/C has never been serviced and still chills the cabin area in less than 3 minutes.

and a gaggle of motorcycles including the 35th GoldWing ever made with over 591,000 miles on it. "yeehawww"
.. List of all 15 upon request
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Graham
post Sep 22 2010 - 04:38 PM
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"Our" departed smart. It was fun.


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QUOTE (Leadwing @ Sep 22 2010 - 07:29 PM) *
Can you get it in writing from MB that your smart will be covered against rust perforation without aftermarket (Krown or Rust-Check) rust prevention techniques? If not, I would do it. (My personal opinion only, not based on scientific facts)


The warranty does have it in writing. But it is best to read the small print! It excludes a number of things including the underside of the car.

On MBs, they said the same thing - not to use aftermarket rustproofing. But many MBs in the late 90's early 2000's had serious rust problems, mostly on the underside of the car! The dealer suggested I get my MB to Krown, and I did!

I did read that the 451s have some galvanizing - that would help. But it sounds like they may have MB wax type rust coating too. Maybe they are concerned that some aftermarket rust treatments may dissolve or other wise reduce effectiveness of their system?

There is so little to the smart, that is hard to justify a Krown treatment - I think I am going to try and do our cdi myself.

PS: This is what one link said about the 451 rustproofing - seems well protected:

QUOTE
Regarding rust, the smart fortwo's steel body is fully zinc-plated. As a further provision against corrosion, there is a coat of cataphoretic paint under the main powder-coat paint, and all body cavities are preserved by a special agent. Finally, the body panels and complete underbody are made of plastic (polypropylene), which are not prone to rust even if scratched.


--------------------
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320
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houseofdiesel
post Oct 7 2010 - 09:11 AM
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All manufactures recommend against rust proofing, they just don't want to deal with it-some products are really hard on rubber seals etc and trim, it sags down off the doors and hangs out of the car. Warranty claims would not like that!
Mercedes is the ONLY manufacturer to put in writing that salt exposure VOIDS the warranty (well, atleast not grounds for warranty-why else would a car rust?)...I would rust proof given that fact. Read your warranty book that came with the smart, very amusing, almost like saying what warranty.
I have seen some rusty parts on smarts, especially in the engine bay. I am thinking if I ever winter drive mine I will seal the engine bay off including the intercooler scoop from the underside of the car. The salt really collects back there, I have never worked on another car where oil lines are rusted out after 3 years (look at your turbo oil drain tube!).
I think a wax based one is best, and you have to respray the whole car constantly with it, only the high exposure areas.
Greg


--------------------
2008 Mercedes R320 CDI, 2006 Pure cabrio CDI, 2000 Jetta GLS TDI, 1996 VW Passat TDI, 1984 Winnebago Lesharo td, projects-1989 Audi 100Q, 1986 Audi 4000Q, 1986 Peugeot 505 turbo, 1983 Mercedes 240D, 2X1983 Mercedes 300SD, 1982 VW Vanagon diesel, 1978 Lincoln Continental 7.5L
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natedawgrex
post Oct 7 2010 - 09:52 AM
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Does anyone have any thoughts on the electronic rust control systems they sell at CTC.
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Mike T
post Oct 7 2010 - 11:28 AM
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It's been discussed here before in other threads; basic conclusion: they don't work.


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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derekbrochu
post Oct 8 2010 - 06:28 AM
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So for rust proof ing do we have to take off all the pannels? that seems very Tedious. exclamation.gif suicide_anim.gif exclamation.gif


--------------------
Derek Brochu

"Smartie" - 2006 cdi Smart ForTwo Bought 2010 Aug 11th - 47346 km - White/Black
Euro Mod done Nov. 26th - Side turning lights "RED"LED's.
Small heater put in on passenger side, to turn on when block heater is plugged in AWESOME WARM!


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Fedon
post Nov 13 2010 - 08:10 PM
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I just rust proofed my '05 passion today. I took it to a Krown rustproofing place but he said there wasn't much he could do so I took it upon myself. I bought 4 litres of thier T40 rustproofing and used a Wurth rustproofing/ undercoating gun. The gun is my fathers but I don't believe it's to expensive but I can tell you that the little nozzels and hoses do a damn fine job of letting you get every inch covered.

As for the nitty gritty; I removed the front grill and panels, headlights assembly, rear panels, tail lights, and of course the belly pans. It is a bit of work but this gives you access to 99% of the places you want rustproofing. The best part about this stuff is that it doesn't harm rubber/plastic so you can go nuts with it!

Some things I have learned: 1) the passenger side pillar is extremely hard to get to. There is no access hole like the driver side and it's not a good idea to drill any holes in the Tridon safety cell. I sprayed up as far as I could but theres not alot you can do for the passenger side pillar.
2) A place EVERYONE should at least spray some WD40 or Honey Goo if you don't have any rustproofing is underneath the front windshield moulding at the bottom of the windshield. I stuck the tip of the hose in the corners and sprayed right across the entire lip. Right away I noticed water being displaced from the area. Do yourself a favour and spray this area!

Some people say the car is not rustproofing but for the little amount of time and effort it takes to do one of these cars it is cheap insurance.
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Mike T
post Nov 13 2010 - 10:34 PM
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Whipping out the taillights (on the cabriolet at least) gives full access to the LH and RH rocker panels. I should imagine that the coupé is the same.


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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Leadwing
post Nov 13 2010 - 10:55 PM
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QUOTE (Mike T @ Nov 14 2010 - 01:34 AM) *
Whipping out the taillights (on the cabriolet at least) gives full access to the LH and RH rocker panels. I should imagine that the coupé is the same.

It is


--------------------
You are what you drive

'05 smart pulse "Bruised" (bought used with 94,000kms on it, Sept. 23/09)

'06 smart Passion Cab. "Silverwing" (bought 'gently used' with 4,800 kms on it, Nov. 22/10)

'95 Jeep "winter-beater" (bought used in 1996 with 6,000 kms on it) Sold... June 30/12 with 297,900 kms on it.

'96 Honda Civic, "Dimples", that serves as my wife's bus

'89 Civic "Old Faithful" (bought new in the fall of 1988) Still waiting for the first light bulb to blow. A/C has never been serviced and still chills the cabin area in less than 3 minutes.

and a gaggle of motorcycles including the 35th GoldWing ever made with over 591,000 miles on it. "yeehawww"
.. List of all 15 upon request
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Mike T
post Nov 13 2010 - 11:06 PM
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I think Fedon did that, but it's something you can do even with a spray can of Rust Check.


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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Duck
post Nov 14 2010 - 06:25 AM
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QUOTE (natedawgrex @ Oct 7 2010 - 12:52 PM) *
Does anyone have any thoughts on the electronic rust control systems they sell at CTC.


I have/had one in my '06 smart. I can't say difinitivley that it did or did not work; all I can say is that there's no body rust at all on my car.

What there is a lot of, is a massive pool of corrosion/white cake around the "sacrificial electrodes" that the module uses. It made an absolute mess of the passenger footwell, where it's mounted. You lift up the carpet and the entire area is just caked with white powder and grit everywhere.

In general, I think you'll find that for cars from the '80's and '90's, yeah - it made sense... but now-a-days, paint is so much better and the steel is thicker, so it's not as much of an issue.

-Iain

This post has been edited by Duck: Nov 14 2010 - 06:26 AM


--------------------
2006 smart fortwo cdi Nosedive.... Back up and running!
2010 Toyota Gen3 Prius Normandy (N7) - Hybrid Synergy Drive active!
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Graham
post Nov 14 2010 - 07:29 AM
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QUOTE (bilgladstone @ Sep 13 2010 - 07:24 PM) *
OT here a bit.



Ah... thanks. I've been looking for a spray extension to fit an aerosol can. The only one I could find (perfect - a very nice one!) is sold by a US firm that won't ship to Canada. Any pointers?

B senile.gif


Is this the US one (Harbor Freight) http://images.harborfreight.com/manuals/1000-1999/1102.pdf

I see that CT sell both thin Rust Check for spraying inside panels where penetration into seams is needed as well as a thicker no drip material for external surfaces. These are in pint size cans that screw onto the Shutz type gun that they also sell. But this gun does not have long extensions like the commercial oil spray equipment. HofD says those are available at Napa. All of these also need an air compressor. I have one, but it is more of a tire inflator than a compressor (no tank) so haven't done anything yet!


--------------------
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320
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Graham
post Nov 14 2010 - 07:30 AM
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QUOTE (Duck @ Nov 14 2010 - 09:25 AM) *
I have/had one in my '06 smart. I can't say difinitivley that it did or did not work; all I can say is that there's no body rust at all on my car.

What there is a lot of, is a massive pool of corrosion/white cake around the "sacrificial electrodes" that the module uses. It made an absolute mess of the passenger footwell, where it's mounted. You lift up the carpet and the entire area is just caked with white powder and grit everywhere.

In general, I think you'll find that for cars from the '80's and '90's, yeah - it made sense... but now-a-days, paint is so much better and the steel is thicker, so it's not as much of an issue.

-Iain



I had a quick look at those units at CT - I think I read on box that they are guaranteed, but only if CT install them!


--------------------
'06 42 CDI Passion (sold), '85 300D, '72 350SL, '98 E320
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houseofdiesel
post Nov 14 2010 - 11:38 AM
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I bought one of those units, I have not installed it yet simple due to time...
In order for it to work on the parts that actually rust like brakes and suspension it needs to be grounded properly, all those parts are rubber mounted so the unit would have no effect. I plan on grounding my suspension to the car body so it protects all the parts of the car, just a 10guage wire and self tapping screws or something like that.
It is worth doing it yourself and taking a full day of your weekend to pull everything off and spray it yourself, the front of the car accesses everything-the a pillars etc. the wand goes deep into the car with the nose off. I haven't pulled my rear end off yet, no time maybe this week as the car is already parked for the winter. If you use a no drip product once every couple of years is fine, the oil type stuff diasppears quick.
Paint is better these days but metal is actually thinner in my opinion. Computer modeling allows them to cut it really thin so the car weights less and stress modeling lets them design the car so it has meat where it needs it and thiness where it doesn't. Cars dent alot easier nowadays compared with 70s metal!


--------------------
2008 Mercedes R320 CDI, 2006 Pure cabrio CDI, 2000 Jetta GLS TDI, 1996 VW Passat TDI, 1984 Winnebago Lesharo td, projects-1989 Audi 100Q, 1986 Audi 4000Q, 1986 Peugeot 505 turbo, 1983 Mercedes 240D, 2X1983 Mercedes 300SD, 1982 VW Vanagon diesel, 1978 Lincoln Continental 7.5L
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Mike T
post Nov 14 2010 - 01:01 PM
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The Japanese brands actually use thicker gauge steel in the exported cars (N America) than they do in their domestic ones! Ha!


--------------------
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cabriolet 450 B-remap
2013 Ford Fiesta SE 5 speed, 203A pkg, Winter pkg.
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection
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Fedon
post Nov 14 2010 - 02:29 PM
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QUOTE (Mike T @ Nov 14 2010 - 02:06 AM) *
I think Fedon did that, but it's something you can do even with a spray can of Rust Check.


You are correct. The tail lights give you access to the tridon. The good part about using the gun with a nozzle at the end of a hose is that it allows you to spray up the back as well as down to the rockers.

Has anyone checked that lip under thier windshield?
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Kofångar-Lasse
post Nov 14 2010 - 02:54 PM
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After removing the rear wheel arches AND the inner archers, I've
found some hidden and plugged holes in the Tridion to use for
rustproofing works. Remove the undertray, and You will find more
holes to axcess for the same purpous.

KfL


--------------------
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fordnut71
post Nov 15 2010 - 09:04 AM
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i bought 2 cans of rust check from canadian tire. 1 was the light red an the other was the thicker white stuff. i pulled of the front an rear clips an lights. i sprayed into every lil gape in the metal i could find, sprayed it till it came pouring out some where else. the thicker stuff i used for areas that just needed a coating. even pulled foam block an moved the carpet back an did the flooring under the feet.
but for those of you who dont know rust check is best applyed when its warm out an less chance of rain for a few days. it does take time for it to dry in an it will wash away in rain.
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