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Full Version: woooo hoooo 3 bars :(
Club smart Car > Technical Discussions > Operation and Maintenance: 450 Model, 2005-2006, diesel
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fordnut71
i got the 3 bars last night while getting ready to leave work. i warmed up the car an cleaned off the freezing rain an put into gear an the car moves an then drops out of gear an revs. so shut it off restart 3 bars again. so i thought maybe its stuck between gears. rock it back an forth i dont hear anything but i try again. this time it goes in gear an moves. so as i leave the parking lot the traction control light comes on puzzling . thinking i know the parking lot is icy it could be should go out once i hit the road. get out to the road an it stays on, i drive a few km pull into a parking lot an shut it off hoping for a reset. turn it back on 3 bars again. 2 more trys an it moved again an the traction contol light stays on. so the 100km drive home the traction light is on pull onto my street where its still snow covered an it drops out of gear an revs.
this looks like how i spend my new years eve,so now ideas on what to look for into repairing this cause.
ragnarawk
The only time I've gotten the three bars is when my reluctor ring was broken. I got an engine light occasionally with this, never a traction light. But you'd think a traction light would make more sense with a bad reluctor ring ...

If you can, check them out - one might be broken, and Glenn has a better solution to fixing it than the dealerships. If they look alright, maybe someone else can give you another lead to follow.
fordnut71
I have 2 codes po702 generic an pd. Trans control system electrical.
Also both the traction control an abs light are active now. So that could be a split ring. Iv repaired 1 already.
Mike T
Wire chafed through on the intercooler scoop caused my three bars.
smartzuuk
We have a topic or two, maybe more on this... Hopefully we can merge this into the latest of the bunch.
fordnut71
so far iv checked my battery witch checks out very good with a load tester. i took out my clutch actuator an cleaned it out. there was a lot of fine grit an old silicone in there. i reinstalled an adjusted it an got rid of the 3 bars an abs, traction control lights. took it for a drive car shift a lot better an a lot snappier.
i noticed the shift rod has surface rust on the tip. so had a look at the shift fork also an i think i have a crack happening in rod hole. i put some white grease in the tip also, hope that hold that off.
but i still have code po702 coming up on my code reader. some reading guys have said they had chaffed wires cause of the intercooler scoop. i couldnt find anything from looking or feeling from below, do i have to get the intercooler out of there to find where this problem might be?
Mike T
No, the wires that get chafed are below the intercooler, you don't have to remove anything.
Francesco
And third time's the charm. Not. Grrrr.

My car is sitting at a US Post Office in upstate NY tonight. This is the third time my car has thrown a P0702 code, but it is the first time it has simply refused to move (and given a three bars display). Interestingly, each of the three times has occurred in the same town in NY. No, there are no evil forces at work there, but I surmise that the longer drive to get there (in sloppy or wet conditions each time) has allowed the wetness to creep to wherever that short is. Each time before, DAS reported that it's in the M18 connector from the actuator to the ECU. Each time I managed to nurse the car home and get the car on stands, crawl underneath and clean out/play with all the connectors around the actuator (actuator, shifter motor and shifter sensor). This time, I had no tools with me, and inadequate clothing (it was -9°C and slushy). I managed to get some cardboard from the diner next door, and eventually some electrical cleaner from a Kubota dealership a kilometre walk down the road, and was able to squeeze under the car just enough to play with the actuator connector. I sprayed the cleaner in it and around it, but with no luck. I gave up after a couple of hours and called my sister to make the 85 km drive to pick us up. My wife and I will go back in the morning with a jack and all the tools I'll likely need, plus some cleaner and grease. I will stop by CT and pick up a can of water dispersal spray to help get me home where I can get better access to the entire harness to look for the short.

I actually have my fingers crossed that it will dry up enough tonight (as the electrical cleaner evaporates) that I'll be able to get it home without lifting it first.
fordnut71
oh thats bad. this is something i hope i dont have to do. good luck on making it home tomorrow.
i did my clean out, lube an adjustment of the clutch actuator an the car has worked fine. now i still have this code po702 but being a big guy im having a hard time trying to see where this electrical problem is at. if you find the source of this problem could you snap a pic of it plz. im not getting any luck online of where to look.
2minits
I hope I'm allowed to do this but here is a link to another forum that shows where the wires get damaged by the intercooler scoop

http://www.smartmaniacs.co.uk/showthread.p...aded-3-lines%21
Mike T
No problem linking to other forums.
Francesco
Thanks for the link 2minits!

Even though the DAS tells me it's a problem with the actuator connector, I suspect it could also be one of the other two (gear motor or sensor). When I get it home I'll dry it all out and have a good, close look at all three.
robm
QUOTE (SameGuy @ Jan 7 2012 - 06:29 AM) *
Thanks for the link 2minits!

Even though the DAS tells me it's a problem with the actuator connector, I suspect it could also be one of the other two (gear motor or sensor). When I get it home I'll dry it all out and have a good, close look at all three.


can this wire chafting issue cause "loss of power". let say kick it out of gear when you are accelerating? i.e. can it be a safety issue or just major inconvenience?
fordnut71
thank you 2mints this is what iv been looking for. now i need to check my car if this is having the same problem.


robm im sure it could be possible as it is electrical an if its rubbing who knows what the computer is getting for signals.
fordnut71
well im still having an electrical problem as i went out to turn the car around in my drive way an i could hear the shift motor clicking away before starting it. this was just from the morning dampness.
i got the car up in the air an took the drivers tire off an have searched the harness for chaffing an cant seem to find it.
i cant see or find the point of where the wiring is crossing over behind the scoop.
hope 1 of you other guys find your problem an mine being the same thing. right now the arthritis in my hand has flared up making it useless an painfull.
2minits
I'll try to describe where the rubbing is.... (the article on the other forum isn't mine but I thought it might help)...

Ok lay on your back under the car looking up the intercooler scoop with your exhaust near your stomach (just so we're all looking the same way!)
Looking up the scoop you will see the gear position motor (big connector lots of wires) and with the connector just out of view but you'll see the wires coming from it.
If you follow all these wires to the right they *should* (unless someone has already moved them) pass between the scoop and the gearbox, if you have taken the wheel off you can see where they come through as there is a half circle cut out of the plastic (but it's not big enough to stop the rubbing)
Obviously if you have the wire out of the way you need to either make the hole bigger or reroute the wires so they don't rub...
Francesco
I had a look there this afternoon but could not see anything obvious.

My wife drove me to the US post office today. The car started right up and went into gear like normal, so I instructed her to follow me immediately. Unfortunately it was still sloppy on the roads, and by the time we got to Canada Customs about 5 km away, it started acting up. First the triangle, then the shifter motor noise, then three bars. I shut down and the CBSA agent actually exited his booth to push me out of the way! biggrin.gif

I had the Honda's scissor jack, jack stands, tools and sprays. I tried for about an hour and a half before throwing in the towel and calling smartmove Assistance. While I'm no longer covered, I figured they'd still help, and they did. An extremely professional, knowledgeable and friendly flatbed driver showed up 30 minutes later. Sadly, $65 for the call and $1/Km both ways from his place of business. Plus tax. $327 and change later my car is home in my garage, waiting for me to have at that harness. I figure I'll give it some time to thaw out and possibly dry off, which might allow me to reset the actuator -- it's fully extended and refuses to retract when connected to the car. In the garage I can work without slush, and going numb from the cold, and I can get the car quite a bit higher in the air. Hopefully I'll be able to find (and fix) an actual problem, and not just throw ideas at the wall to see what sticks. Last two times I got it running fine by cleaning and drying out connectors, and possibly by moving the harnesses (opening a possible short, if there is one in a chafe spot). The bad news is that last time I applied liberal amounts of dielectric grease around the back ends of the three connectors, so I'll have to clean those out properly before applying liquid electrical tape.The good news is that I have all night tonight as well as most of tomorrow, and I can use my wife's car to get to work tomorrow night. Then I'm off two more days.
fordnut71
QUOTE (2minits @ Jan 7 2012 - 12:21 PM) *
I'll try to describe where the rubbing is.... (the article on the other forum isn't mine but I thought it might help)...

Ok lay on your back under the car looking up the intercooler scoop with your exhaust near your stomach (just so we're all looking the same way!)
Looking up the scoop you will see the gear position motor (big connector lots of wires) and with the connector just out of view but you'll see the wires coming from it.
If you follow all these wires to the right they *should* (unless someone has already moved them) pass between the scoop and the gearbox, if you have taken the wheel off you can see where they come through as there is a half circle cut out of the plastic (but it's not big enough to stop the rubbing)
Obviously if you have the wire out of the way you need to either make the hole bigger or reroute the wires so they don't rub...


2mints the pics are very helpful i can picture where they go an where it should be rubbing at.
i was able to see up the scoop i seen the 2 plugs up there. the wires do run up but i cant tell where to. it was either my head or a light in there. looking with the tire off i could see a 1/2 moon under the motor but no wires coming along there, mine are running up much higher in the scoop. i just cant get my hand up there far enough to get a good follow on them.
just so you get an idea of part of my problem im 5'11" 325# with a ring finger that is above measurable sizes.
fordnut71
good thing you got the car back but thats a big cost thats something i really cant afford right now.
wish you luck on finding the problem. i really thinking of the idea of taking out the intercooler an scoop for a hope an better chance at finding the problem.
fordnut71
ok now iv gone an done it. iv snapped a nipple off on the plastic fuel line. im assume this is the high pressure pump connected to cyl #3. theres 1 bolt holding down 2 plastic lines. does mb sell these parts or do i have to get a new pump now?
Francesco
My car has been indoors for almost 48 hours now, in a relatively dry garage (melting slush usually raises the humidity of the garage, but it should be pretty dry now) that's at a steady 10C when it's sub-zero outside.

I raised it as high as I can safely go -- I really need better jack stands, or a higher ceiling and a two-post lift wink.gif -- and had a good look with a very bright drop light. Nothing jumps out at me, but it's all quite dry under there. I'm sure if I put it back together it would work fine (needing an adjustment). I removed the rear wheel, and cut off the sheath covering part of the clutch actuator harness. There is no evident chafing of any kind anywhere. confused.gif Using a liberal amount of Tunap brake and electrical cleaner I carefully cleaned the harness, and with a small nylon brush scoured the back of the connector. It is now drying out (after a quick blast of compressed air). Is it likely that the short is when moisture enters the back of the connector? The only thing I can think of is applying a thick coat of liquid electrical tape to the back of the connector at this point, then wrapping the harness with a few layers of kevlar tape.
mzeeb
QUOTE (SameGuy @ Jan 9 2012 - 01:37 PM) *
My car has been indoors for almost 48 hours now, in a relatively dry garage (melting slush usually raises the humidity of the garage, but it should be pretty dry now) that's at a steady 10C when it's sub-zero outside.

I raised it as high as I can safely go -- I really need better jack stands, or a higher ceiling and a two-post lift wink.gif -- and had a good look with a very bright drop light. Nothing jumps out at me, but it's all quite dry under there. I'm sure if I put it back together it would work fine (needing an adjustment). I removed the rear wheel, and cut off the sheath covering part of the clutch actuator harness. There is no evident chafing of any kind anywhere. confused.gif Using a liberal amount of Tunap brake and electrical cleaner I carefully cleaned the harness, and with a small nylon brush scoured the back of the connector. It is now drying out (after a quick blast of compressed air). Is it likely that the short is when moisture enters the back of the connector? The only thing I can think of is applying a thick coat of liquid electrical tape to the back of the connector at this point, then wrapping the harness with a few layers of kevlar tape.



Maybe try some CoaxSeal! I use this for any outside connections to my ham radio antennas, etc. It's a self-amalgamating tape that you can mold to the connector. The stuff stays flexible for years.

Thankfully, I haven't had to use it under my car yet......... rolleyes.gif

MZ
fordnut71
i took the scoop out of my car. i did find the harness was starting to chaff on the upper part of the scoop. this is just under the intercooler an fire wall. i made a notch in the scoop an put some new wire sheeting on it. also i found that circle sensor on the side it was chaffing there also, so i did the same fix. but when i took the plug out i could see moisture in the area. so i dont know for sure if water is making it but i used some bulb grease on the connector an plugged it back in.
Mike T
What does a new harness cost? Maybe it's not that much? Or a bear to change?
fordnut71
i wouldnt change 1 if i really didnt have to.
Francesco
The M18-to-ECU harness isn't available separately. It's part of the main harness. Spendy.
Huronlad
QUOTE (Mike T @ Jan 9 2012 - 07:50 PM) *
What does a new harness cost? Maybe it's not that much? Or a bear to change?


Around $1000(parts and labour) IIRC to have M-B change the engine harness. If they drop your car off their hoist you may be able to negotiate a free clutch actuator out of it.
Mike T
D'oh, I thought maybe there was a repair harness.....
Francesco
Me too. I called on Friday to ask that.
tolsen
QUOTE (Mike T @ Jan 10 2012 - 02:33 AM) *
D'oh, I thought maybe there was a repair harness.....

There are repair parts available, not from Smart but from Mercedes as spares for other MB cars. 6 pin plug to clutch actuator is available and comes possibly complete with short leads. Individual terminals with seal and short leads also available, etc etc etc. An experienced MB parts person will know.

MB part number for 6 pin plug is A001 540 9181, price in 2008 approx 3 pounds.
MB part number for spare terminal with cable is A000 540 27 05, price in 2008 approx 2 pounds.

Spare terminal comes as a lead with female connector one end and male connector the other end. Male connector is not required.
Francesco
Just called, not in stock local, nor at MB HQ in Toronto. Back-ordered Stuttgart, no date.For today I will remove the intercooler duct and inspect every centimetre of the three harnesses, and seal the back of each of the connector housings. The big test is yet to come, now that the car is dry; will my actuator retract? But that is a big help for the future, thanks!
Francesco
Picked up a new IC scoop -- mine's been broken since at least last winter. Upon removing the old one, I had a much clearer view of the different wire looms. The two-wire connector (gear sensor?) was clearly chafed on both conductors, right at the butt ends above the plug. I cleaned the area thoroughly, spread the two wires apart and I'm now in the process of applying several coats of Liquid Electrical Tape. I took the opportunity to coat the backs of all three connectors with it as well. Testing will come later on.
tolsen
I use mainly self amalgamating tape and heat shrink sleeve. Self amalgamating tape is really cheap here, about GBP 2.40 per 19mm x 10 m roll. Self amalgamating tape is also perfect as whipping on spliced rope. Once set only cutting with a sharp knife will remove it. Fantastic product! Strong, flexible even at low temperature and most important, cheap.
Francesco
I have a roll. It is what I had planned to use for binding the harness before adding a protective layer of Kevlar tape.
Mike T
I thought it would be something like this at fault. This is good news! I wonder why they didn't put that corrugated wire sheathing over the bundle at the factory? It would certainly resist chafing better, had that been done.

What is the brand name of this special tape liquid and other tapes that you have been using and where did you get it? Please let me know, as I would like to get some, in preparation for further repairs on my car(s). Thanks in advance.
Francesco
Well after all that, no luck. Still getting an EDG fault at the M18 (actuator, or as they call it, "coupling motor"). There is a short somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can do much more about it. DAS still says the short is in the six-conductor harness between the EDG and the actuator. Tomorrow I'll start from scratch and do a continuity check on that harness to isolate which wire(s) is (are) shorted.
tolsen
More likely an open circuit, usually the thinner wires to clutch actuator. Identify the fault by a combination of visual inspection and current injection using a test lamp. Continuity checks using a multimeter may not be conclusive unless you have a multimeter that has built in continuity testing mode. Repair harness insulation and protective cover only when the faults have been rectified.
Francesco
Thanks for the help!

The reason I suspected a short was because it has happened three times, and each time after a soggy 90 minute drive. However, it has indeed had time to dry out in my garage, so at this point I suspect you may be correct.
tolsen
I recommend you place rear end on axle stands and drop engine subframe a wee bit for improved access and better view of harness. Will make the job much easier.
smart142
QUOTE (SameGuy @ Jan 11 2012 - 12:27 AM) *
There is a short somewhere, but I'll be damned if I can do much more about it. DAS still says the short is in the six-conductor harness between the EDG and the actuator. Tomorrow I'll start from scratch and do a continuity check on that harness to isolate which wire(s) is (are) shorted.

Here's some pictures of chafed wires that I found on a smart....

Good luck with your search.
tolsen
Good luck with your search.
What is the problem with cable to IAT sensor?
MightyMouseTech
The exposed copper wire is usually a bad thing. wink.gif
fordnut71
well after the rain from today i still have my codes after the fixing of the harness. i was even so lucky to pick up a few new 1 related to the egr now.
Francesco
I spent a stupid amount of time removing the Liquid Electrical Tape from the plug and wires on the actuator in anticipation of doing some deeper diagnostics. There are a couple of nicks in two or three of the conductors, but because it's all dry now I should be able to test it all properly. I also removed and checked the gear position sensor. The other two plugs that I checked and sealed last time (that are accessed inside the IC scoop), I didn't touch. When I plugged in the actuator and cycled the key, I actually heard the actuator move for the first time in a week!

Service Department Foreman Neighbour came over and we ran some off the basic clutch tests, which showed the actuator was -- for the moment -- working. We are now in the process of doing the DAS-recommended diagnostic of the harness between the EDG(N9/3) and the actuator (M18), but the pin-out of connector 2 at the EDG is somehow not available on my WIS/DAS. We called it a night as I have to head to work, and he will look on WISnet tonight. Tomorrow afternoon we'll run the tests on the harness to find the break or short, using the meter and connectors he brought over.

With any luck this will fix it! Of course, I now owe him a trip to California. Do-able. smile.gif
robm
QUOTE (SameGuy @ Jan 13 2012 - 03:22 PM) *
I spent a stupid amount of time removing the Liquid Electrical Tape from the plug and wires on the actuator in anticipation of doing some deeper diagnostics. There are a couple of nicks in two or three of the conductors, but because it's all dry now I should be able to test it all properly. I also removed and checked the gear position sensor. The other two plugs that I checked and sealed last time (that are accessed inside the IC scoop), I didn't touch. When I plugged in the actuator and cycled the key, I actually heard the actuator move for the first time in a week!

Service Department Foreman Neighbour came over and we ran some off the basic clutch tests, which showed the actuator was -- for the moment -- working. We are now in the process of doing the DAS-recommended diagnostic of the harness between the EDG(N9/3) and the actuator (M18), but the pin-out of connector 2 at the EDG is somehow not available on my WIS/DAS. We called it a night as I have to head to work, and he will look on WISnet tonight. Tomorrow afternoon we'll run the tests on the harness to find the break or short, using the meter and connectors he brought over.

With any luck this will fix it! Of course, I now owe him a trip to California. Do-able. smile.gif


mine is in the shop for 3 bars issues. will be replacing the gear position sensor Monday...we will see.
tolsen
QUOTE (robm @ Jan 14 2012 - 12:10 AM) *
mine is in the shop for 3 bars issues. will be replacing the gear position sensor Monday...we will see.

Gear position sensor is not important. It is only there for diagnostics but not for control. Gear position is sensed by sensors in gear change motor.
See attached document. My apologies for the German text. Perhaps Google translator may assist those that struggle.Click to view attachment
fordnut71
i hope some 1 find the cause soon i cant afford a break down right now.
Francesco
Only spent a few minutes on it today, checking continuity on the M18 harness. I have to head to work now but the one wire that seems open is the blue, between pin 6 on the M18 connector and pin 75 on N9 at the ECU. Will take a closer look tomorrow. Also, many of the terminals in the N9 show some pitting, so it will be getting a coating of electrical connection enhancer come Monday (there is a MB part number for a product that goes on thin and dries quickly, I'll post the number then).
tolsen
What I did wrong when I had similar problems was to measure resistance as advised in the workshop instructions. Sending current through using a simple test lamp is much more effective for checking continuity. Still need the multimeter to check resistance between cables and to earth.
Look forward to part number for the electrical connection enhancer.
Alex
Electrical connection enhancer? Noalox or another brand, or a very similar product in a tiny squeeze tube for double the price of a great big bottle, but with a logo!
The stuff is great, I've used it for many years with excellent results. It improves the connection immediately by plating onto to the contacting surfaces filling in microscopic irregularities hence increasing effective contact area. It improves the connection a few years from now by the above plus inhibiting oxidization and the resulting cycle of destruction. Only caveats is use a toothpick not a trowel to apply, and avoid the tiny multipin communications connectors.

It will not, however, fix a break in a wire, sad01_anim.gif nor magically restore a badly melted and burnt connection. stupid.gif
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