Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Oil Filter Adapter?
Club smart Car > Technical Discussions > Operation and Maintenance: 450 Model, 2005-2006, diesel
ray4406
I have seen tidbits here and there about spin-on filters any information on how and where etc? I love tp maintain my own stuff and I see broken plastic oil filter cap possible. If a spin-on is available I would like to research that. Also what are the the oil drain plug options I tried to get one on Ebay but the seller never got back to me. Anyone added a plug to exsisting pan? I kind of asked about the drain plug before please refresh my memory thanks
CANMAN
Ray,
You have to search on ebay in the U.K. For the spin on oil filter adapters, they cost about $100.
While you are there you can search for oil pans with the drain plug but there is a CsC member in Alberta who sells them, reet your browser to show threads from all week rather then today (at the bottom right of page) this was discussed a couple of days ago.
Canman
lebikerboy
Here you go...
http://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/On_line_...ersions_42.html
fordnut71
http://97.74.32.155/files/spinon.pdf

british american transfer in fl.
tolsen
For the price of those spin off filter conversions, I can buy superior OEM quality oil filters to last me a life time. Plastic housing for cartridge filter will also last a life time unless you are clumsy.

The trend these days is for cartridge or replaceable-element filter construction, because they generates less waste with each filter change compared to spin on filters.
ray4406
QUOTE (tolsen @ Jan 20 2013 - 04:36 PM) *
For the price of those spin off filter conversions, I can buy superior OEM quality oil filters to last me a life time. Plastic housing for cartridge filter will also last a life time unless you are clumsy.

The trend these days is for cartridge or replaceable-element filter construction, because they generates less waste with each filter change compared to spin on filters.

so true I didn't consider the waste factor that is a good green choice. what are the best filters to use as far as cleaning the oil the best? any thoughts?
bilgladstone
More food for thought:
  • Oil filtration through spin-on canister filter media is vastly superior to any cartridge filter available for the smart 450.
  • Spin-on adapter and filter can increase engine oil volume to 3.4 litres from 2.7 litres (that is 30% increase) compared to OEM. Engine runs cooler and cleaner, longer
  • Filter media area of canister filter is huge in comparison to wee OEM cartridge filter.
  • Canister filter (many brands will fit) is available across-the-counter from any autoparts or repair shop in North America and around the world.
  • All reputable service shops in Canada participate in used oil, and oil filter recycling programs.
  • OCI ratings of larger canister filters exceed oil change interval ratings of tiny OEM cartridge by 2-3 times.

Many factors in making this choice, is al I'm saying...

Bil sun.gif
Mike T
If you buy a box of ten filters from a smart dealer, they should charge under $60. That's enough for 80,000 km if you max out on the interval. I change mine at 4000-4500 km.
scwmcan
I haven't had any proble just using the OEM filters from Mercedes, they have the cheapest price for them and I can trust the quality, I am not going to say that they are better than a canister one, but I am also not going to say you are going to hurt your engine using the filter designed for,the car. Mine has 175,000 km on it, and when I did the oil change last week, no signs of any metallic particles in the old oil, and the sprockets I can see still have there teeth with no significant wear that I can see. Chains still look good, with no excess flex.
lebikerboy
QUOTE (bilgladstone @ Jan 20 2013 - 05:36 PM) *
More food for thought:
  • Oil filtration through spin-on canister filter media is vastly superior to any cartridge filter available for the smart 450.
  • Spin-on adapter and filter can increase engine oil volume to 3.4 litres from 2.7 litres (that is 30% increase) compared to OEM. Engine runs cooler and cleaner, longer
  • Filter media area of canister filter is huge in comparison to wee OEM cartridge filter.
  • Canister filter (many brands will fit) is available across-the-counter from any autoparts or repair shop in North America and around the world.
  • All reputable service shops in Canada participate in used oil, and oil filter recycling programs.
  • OCI ratings of larger canister filters exceed oil change interval ratings of tiny OEM cartridge by 2-3 times.

Many factors in making this choice, is al I'm saying...

Bil sun.gif


As Bil said the filter media available for spin-on filters
is superior to OEM and actually meets MB229.5 specifications
plus more oil is certainly better...

However, it's only a 26.4% capacity increase... rolleyes.gif
tolsen
I see no benefits with spin on filter conversions, only trouble.
  • They leave behind a large quantity of oil that cannot be drained.
  • Mercedes has not specified which spin on filter is suitable for the OM660 engine.
  • It has not been established which bypass relief pressure setting of spin on filters are right for the engine.
  • There is no way of knowing whether the chosen spin on filter meets required filtration efficiency.
  • There is unnecessary engine wear during start-up after filter change since the larger volume of spin on filters takes longer to fill with oil before becoming fully pressurised.
  • Spin on filters are particularly difficult and messy to open out for internal examination.
  • The larger physical size of spin on filters does not necessarily mean they have any larger filtration area.
  • They are ungreen and therefore bad for the environment.
In Europe and UK, Bosch OEM paper cartridge oil filters can be bought for less than 2 Pounds each incl of tax. Spin on filters cost generally a lot more.
bilgladstone
Just a fun sidebar note:
If you examine your engine warranty, it specifies for the use of a "fleece" oil filter with this diesel engine. The OEM cartridge filter supplied with the car and which they sell you to replace it, is NOT a fleece filter. Therefor, from the very day you took delivery of your smart 450 and switched on the engine, you were in violation of the M-B engine warranty. And every time the service department replaced the OEM oil filter for you, they were in violation of the engine warranty.
The only way to install a fleece filter as specified Mercedes Benz for the OM660 and virtually every other Diesel they make is to install an adapter plate and purchase a suitable Mann-Hummel (or equal) fleece filter. I believe it was Mann p/n 712/6 that came with my adapter.

Thoroughly dazed and confused? Do whatever you like. Just use the best fully synthetic oil you can afford (and Mobil 1 (as recommended by M-cool.gif is not fully synthetic by the way - it's a hydrocracked blend), and change both the (whatever) oil and (whatever) filter at 5,000km intervals and you'll be golden.

Bil sun.gif
tolsen
I've never seen any fleece oil filter specified for the OM660. Mann Hummel lists oil filter HU68x and diesel filter WK612/6.
https://www.mann-hummel.com/mf_prodkata_usa...ktlg_subpage=02
For some obscure reason Mann Hummel does not list the large diesel separator filter which is fitted under the car.

W 712/6 is a spin on filter and is not specified for the Smart.
https://www.mann-hummel.com/mf_prodkata_usa...gobackToPage=12
bilgladstone
"I've never seen any fleece oil filter specified for the OM660"

Exactly! The warranty papers acompanying the 2005/2006 smart fortwo explicitly specify that you must use fleece filter but there is none - unless the HU68x is fleece, but I don't think so.

Though the 716/2 is not specified by Mann for use in the 450 - no spin-on filter is or can be OEM specced for this engine as-built) its flow-through rate and bypass pressure are suitable, and it also has the superior advantage of an anti-drainback valve to prevent dry-starting, which no cartridge filter has.

If one adheres strictly to OEM warranty specifications for the oil filter - well, it is not possible to adhere to them, because they specify a filter that does not exist, is my point.

One does one's research and lands upon a solution that works as well as or better than OEM and with which one is comfortable. Deep esoterica aside, I have landed upon the canister as my filter of choice and consider it superior in almost every way.

Bil sun.gif
Mike T
Red herring. That is just a typo in the owners manual and no-one has been denied warranty repairs because of a "non-fleece" filter.
bilgladstone
Red herrings... the tastiest kind wink.gif
tolsen
The GB warranty document is rather generic and does not go into details like specifying fleece type oil filters but is interesting reading nevertheless.
Excluded are:
Alterations of the original construction of the vehicle, i.g. tuning
& remapping.
Conversions or alterations of parts, installations of accessories of units from other manufacturers, the use of which has not been approved, i.g. suspension lowering, fitting spin on filters etc etc etc.

The issue with the spin on filters has been a bit of an eye opener or rather an eye closer. I see you complain about premature failure of timing chain and sprockets yet you alter the lubrication system without any regard to the consequences. Fit unapproved and wrong type oil filters and nobody knows the required specification for the spin on oil filter they fit.

If you have another car where spin on oil filter is standard, would you go ahead and just fit any type of oil filter as long as it would fit on the threads?
bilgladstone
Due diligence. Done and settled. Moving on.

There is no data to suggest that failed sprockets are occurring only, or mostly, or even at all, on cars with spin-on adapters. Straw man, mate.

Dead horse.

Bil sun.gif
lebikerboy
QUOTE (bilgladstone @ Jan 21 2013 - 09:58 AM) *
Red herrings... the tastiest kind wink.gif


The point Bil is trying to make is that MB 229.5 states...

MB sheet 229.5 approved oils; "MB Longlife Service Oils"
for passenger cars with gas and diesel engines with extended drain intervals beyond 229.3 oils, to 30,000 km, min 1.8% fuel saving, first oils introduced summer 2002. ACEA A3 B4. For gas engines of the M100 series, gas engines of the M200 series and diesel engines of the OM600 series (not models with Euro 4 diesel particle filters).
229.5 engine oils must be used with fleece oil filter designed for use with 229.5 engine oils.

The filter used in the smart OEM filter is not fleece (polyester) so therefore doesn't meet 229.5...
lebikerboy
QUOTE (tolsen @ Jan 21 2013 - 10:39 AM) *
The GB warranty document is rather generic and does not go into details like specifying fleece type oil filters but is interesting reading nevertheless.
Excluded are:
Alterations of the original construction of the vehicle, i.g. tuning
& remapping.
Conversions or alterations of parts, installations of accessories of units from other manufacturers, the use of which has not been approved, i.g. suspension lowering, fitting spin on filters etc etc etc.

The issue with the spin on filters has been a bit of an eye opener or rather an eye closer. I see you complain about premature failure of timing chain and sprockets yet you alter the lubrication system without any regard to the consequences. Fit unapproved and wrong type oil filters and nobody knows the required specification for the spin on oil filter they fit.

If you have another car where spin on oil filter is standard, would you go ahead and just fit any type of oil filter as long as it would fit on the threads?


Fitting parts which do not have smart or M/B would also void the warranty then.
tolsen
Can somebody from the spin on crowd kindly advise specification for the "recommended" spin on filter? I doubt they can as there is none.
fordnut71
canister filters are crushed to remove the remaining oils out an then the can is then sold for scrap metal for recycling. if you look out in the scrap bin of a local shops youll find the crushed can in there.
tractor trailers mostly use a spin on oil filter, all the big engine use 2 of them. dont think this is really a problem for a motor. even the generals beloved 350 started out as a cartage an now uses an adapter for a spin on filter.
as for opening up a canister filter for inspection they make a no mess cutting tool much like a can opener but bigger for this. we used 1 at a performance shop all the time for inspection of materials in the filter.
but really i think its not the filter thats the problem its more of euro uses a cartage an in america we are use to a spin on filter.

Alex
The big diesels sometimes use two filters. One is a full flow filter, same as any normal engine, the second is a fine filtration bypass filter. Too much restriction to send the full flow through, but excellent at removing the very fine particles that a full flow filter can't. No full flow filter can, that's why frequent oil changes are best. And yes, with an engine that size, a bigger filter is warranted! Not so much with our little mills.

All this talk about the "best" filter is a little silly, what is really important is frequent oil changes and good oil. As usual, the marketing monster wants to create customers for themselves, will use any approach they can, and couldn't care less about mere facts.

I just change my oil at 5K intervals and my cartridge filter together with oil at 10K, so two oil changes and one filter in about 500 km more than the car asks for service at. There is no way any healthy engine with a working air filter can possibly produce enough particlulates to plug even the smallest filter, so excess dirt holding capacity is meaningless, plus filters improve in performance for most of the lifespan. Changing too early is worse for filtration efficiency! If you actually read the manual, many cars do specify a filter only every second oil change.

198K km and no problems yet.
TO Ed
I also change my oil at 5,000 km and change the filter every other time. This means I change the oil twice as often as recommended and change my paper cartridge filter slightly more often than recommended. I'm out of warranty so no point in worrying about meeting any such requirements.

Particulate filters increase in efficiency as they build up material on their surface. A filter that removes down to 10 microns when new will remove smaller particles after media builds up on the surface. Pressure drop across the filter media will increase slightly as material builds up on the surface, however, this usually isn't an issue.

I remember when vehicle owners manuals used to say that the filter should be changed every other oil change. My Volvo boat motor manual (1984) still says this.

My SUV uses a small spin on filter. It probably has about a third or a quarter of the volume of one of the larger standard sized oil filters. Most newer vehicles use these smaller filters. This is no doubt due to to the manufacturers realizing that a larger filter is overkill.

I prefer the paper cartridge filters over the spin on because they are more environmentally friendly. Manufacturing a steel oil filter housing would be fairly energy intensive compared to just making the paper element.
Mike T
The standard oil + filter interval is 8000 km by default. So changing the filter once every 10,000 would be running it 2000 km beyond what the base recommendation is; however, if your service countdown is at zero after 10,000 km, it's all good.

I change both at 5000 km in the Canada 1. It's used infrequently in winter.

The other cdi that I ran to 247K km before it was smoked by another driver had changes every 10,000 km, which was all it called for, but in the latter year I had begun to do it at 7500 (in hindsight, a waste of oil and filters!).
Alex
With lots of highway miles, my car asks for service around 9500 km, so I am only running the filter 500 km over. Far more important is the 5K oil change.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.