EGR valve

[booneylander]

Here is the excerpt of the cdi tech CD/DVD:

Interesting.I wonder why that would be...Slower burn rate from less available oxygen??

[gordo.bernard]

We've all seen some pretty goofy translations that totally change the intent. I understand a bit of German (having lived there) and it would be interesting to see the original text to see if "something was lost in the translation". This is a possibility that could explain the mystery.

[MikeT]

Interesting.I wonder why that would be...Slower burn rate from less available oxygen??

I think that is the reason.

[MikeT]

Which cdi tech cd/dvd do you have? My nephew is going to start doing some preventative maintenance for me as I am out of warranty. THese threads are fantastic, but he has no internet.Thanks

This CD (it is a CD, not a DVD, oops!) is only a technical description of how the car works, not a maintenance manual.

[smartdriver]

Is it possible to make changes in the ecu in stead of making and installing a PCB?

My smart has been remapped, but the input from the rheostat in the EGR position sensor is still required even if the EGR valve has been removed.It might be possible for a clever software engineer to modify the remap to ignore the EGR position sensor input.

How many people drive around with an PCB cable?I saw on the foto it was made on a bmw plug????Is there also an mb plug partnumber?

Part number: C0019185V001000000

There are circuit diagrams and instructions in the forum somewhere for making and installing that PCB.

http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?showtopi...st&p=212160 Edited June 5, 2010 by smartdriver

[zorancdi]

Next week my car is also getting a remap, he cant modify the egr position input but if the pcb cable does the same, then its possible to remove the egrvalve and install an hose or tube?This pcb is installed since september 2008 in your car, and still no problems?

[Francesco]

But are you having problems caused by the EGR?

[zorancdi]

I dont have problems caused by the egr.

[smart142]

I was just fuelling beside a guy with a Ford F350(powerstroke diesel)- he was complaining because he has had to have the EGR valve replaced 4 times in 200,000 kms...a $700 job.We're not the only ones ....Gina is on her second after 182,000 k's

[NJV]

I'm still getting the CEL after cleaning the EGR with carb cleaner. Still no limp modes ever. It sounds to me like the MB cable could help me out. Maybe I should also pick up one of the redesigned EGRs and replace it.4 years, 76K kms. I'm blaming my new found EGR problems on the short drives we do here in Terrace. Mostly 5 min drives and the engine only gets up to 60 C. Now that we have a baby, it won't be going on long trips anymore either.

[bilgladstone]

I'm still getting the CEL after cleaning the EGR with carb cleaner. Still no limp modes ever. It sounds to me like the MB cable could help me out. Maybe I should also pick up one of the redesigned EGRs and replace it.4 years, 76K kms. I'm blaming my new found EGR problems on the short drives we do here in Terrace. Mostly 5 min drives and the engine only gets up to 60 C. Now that we have a baby, it won't be going on long trips anymore either.

The MB cable could fix you up. It has a resistor(?) in one of the crossover wires and is supposed to eliminate CEL from transient or false fail signals.B

[bilgladstone]

I was just fuelling beside a guy with a Ford F350(powerstroke diese)l- he was complaining because he has had to have the EGR valve replaced 4 times in 200,000 kms...a $700 job.

We're not the only ones ....Gina is on her second after 182,000 k's

Yep... not alone by a long chalk. VW tdi also has an additional problem - the EGR causes intake manifold to carbon badly and requires PITA removal and cleaning the manifold. So I have read in the TDI forum

So from wee 799cc to big 6L, although the EGR emissions system my achieve its intention while clean, I believe it creates as much or worse emissions after it begins to - inevitably - choke from carbon buildup. FAIL.

One wonders: at what point along the incremental failure curve does it actually make GHG and particulate emissions WORSE than not having an EGR system at all? 20%? 50%? 80%?

Meaning that after a certain point, and for maybe many thousands of kilometers after that point and before you get a "limp mode" or no-start CEL, the engine is actually spewing worse emissions than with no EGR at all! Unfortunately, since emissions testing for diesel engines is ONLY a visual test for tailpipe smoke, we cannot know the answer.

My suspicion is that the EGR emissions control system is bogus in practical, real-world terms and that there are millions of high mileage vehicles on the road creating MORE emissions because of the EGR system.

IMHO/YMMV

Bil

Edited June 5, 2010 by bilgladstone

[MikeT]

I doubt it, because EGR failure in a modern diesel is inevitably accompanied by limp mode, which by definition is either repaired at a cost or results in an EGR removal if people don't care if the car meets its original anti-pollution spec.NOx causes smog and running w/o EGR will raise NOx considerably, by orders of magnitude. The tragedy of the commons all over again.

[bilgladstone]

I doubt it, because EGR failure in a modern diesel is inevitably accompanied by limp mode <...>

That is at the point failure. But again, at what point along the curve-to-failure between "pristine" and "limp mode" do emissions become worse that no EGR?And what about the thousands - milliions? - of vehicles that don't require an EGR replacement yet? How many of those systems are inside the "worse emissions but not yet limp mode" bracket?And why don't emissions test centres test diesels for gaseous emissions like NOx, but just smoke transparency? Edited June 5, 2010 by bilgladstone

[NJV]

I know this problem afflicts some big trucks too. The local highways maintenance contractor has some new freightliner's and they often have to stop and do a "burn" to clean out the exhaust system or else the engine will just shut itself down. I don't know exactly how the burn works, but I assume it burns out the carbon buildup.

[MikeT]

That is probably the particulate filters. Peugeot has had them for over a decade on their cars and they work like that, although the burn-off happens when you are driving. Anything with particle filters operates like that.Bil, speculation on whether a partially obturated EGR is causing masses of unintended pollution in modern diesels versus the alleged alternative of intentionally disabling it and assuredly causing more pollution than a car with even partial EGR function strikes me as a curious line of reasoning. Maybe I would feel different if I had to unclog an EGR valve every year, but I don't

[NJV]

Ahh, that makes sense Mike.On another note. I am going to be in Victoria on June 22 - 24th for work. I'll be staying at UVic in dorms. Maybe I should try make a visit to the dealer to pick up one of those cables, and maybe a new EGR.

[Francesco]

...speculation on whether a partially obturated EGR is causing masses of unintended pollution in modern diesels versus the alleged alternative of intentionally disabling it and assuredly causing more pollution than a car with even partial EGR function strikes me as a curious line of reasoning. Maybe I would feel different if I had to unclog an EGR valve every year, but I don't

This, exactly.

[bilgladstone]

I dunno... to me the hypothesis is sound, that between brand-new EGR and full failure necessitating replacement, there is a gradual diminution of efficiency in the stated goal of reducing NOx. I.e. Carbon deposit in the EGR system going up and NOx reduction tailing off. Where does X cross Y? Who knows? Nor you nor me. But I highly suspect it's not at the end fail point.

Of course, we would not have to speculate if MOT or TC or someone performed actual emissions testing instead of "[inspector glances at tailpipe] Hmm... not too smokey there I guess, bud - off you go!"

I wonder why they don't do a proper test? [insert conspiracy theory here]

Maybe this is changing did I read someplace that commercial vehicles will soon have to meet emissions standards like passenger cars?

B

Edited June 6, 2010 by bilgladstone

[zorancdi]

My egr project:a firm with a cutter finished the job:a repair:This mod is now finished, but my car is in "limp" mode.I have bought the mbcable, and placed it, but still limp mode.I have disconnect the baterry for 10 minutes and still no improvement.The next step is now making the pcb cable?

Edited June 30, 2010 by zorancdi

[bilgladstone]

The next step is now making the pcb cable?

Yes, that's what you'll have to do. Gutting the mix valve feeds back failure to the ECU. That's why you get an unending limp mode.

Now you have no choice but to make up the circuit board to make the ECU think there is a functioning EGR connected.

B

[zorancdi]

The center pin of the solenoid isn't making contact with the spring valve in the housing = error = limp mode.Today I brazed the pin with a copper cable to a bolt of the solenoid/egrhousing.Disconnected the battery for 20 minutes and hoped that would solve the problem.But still limp mode There are two pcb versions.This is the last one I saw in this topic.Is this the final one, or is there an updated version?

Edited June 28, 2010 by zorancdi

[bilgladstone]

The second one with the Tantalum cap' is the final version.B

[zorancdi]

Ok, to be continued.....

[bheinola]

Hello all,Last week my EGR started to give me grief. No CEL but limp mode after starting & driving a bit. Limp mode was not continuous, I could get it off by stopping and starting the engine a couple of times. Went in yesterday to get the codes read and it was EGR as I had suspected. Car has 159000km on the clock.Please forgive me for not reading all the past 30 pages, but is there someone selling the egr bypass circuit / willing to build one for me?I'm planning to take off the top hose and try to clean the valve with carb cleaner to see if it helps any. I haven't asked if the EGR has already been replaced, the dealer would know as the car hass full service history until 140000km or so.