Time for a new family car.

[Francesco]

The B is to the West Island (of Montreal) what the 450 is to Vancouver Island. They are a dime a dozen here.

[MikeT]

I love my B because it reminds me of a Renault I had once. Super-practical car.

[Duck]

They're everywhere in Toronto, too - especially in the 'burbs!-Iain

[Graham]

They're everywhere in Toronto, too - especially in the 'burbs!-Iain

It's the same here in Kingston. Lot's of B,s.I have been looking at an eventual replacement for our E-Class. Because this is our long distance highway car, I need space for the stuff we take South during winter, like golf clubs, bikes, etc. Being retired, I wouldn't want to spend more than about $36k plus taxes. Warranty would also be important as I am finding crawling under cars les and less enjoyable! Besides some of these newer cars are not really designed for DIYers.The B does have surprising amount of space. A non-turbo one in local dealer showroom has a list price of $32,900. But, one problem I see, is that this car is not sold in USA, so it will be difficult to get dealer service while down there. Also CDI version not sold here :(A C-class with minimal spec is about $10k more. Too high.Alternatives might be the new Golf TDI SW at just over $30k. Or perhaps a 2010 Honda Crosstour (selling at discount now, but where is the diesel they promised?)Probably more alternatives, but nothing that excites me. Well "maybe" lease a Toyota Camry hybrid.What I would really like, is a 1990 W126 Mercedes SD with low mileage. Gas versions go for under US$10k, but I did see a 560SEL with 27k miles sell for $16k recently - a heck of a lot less than it's original price and like new. But not exactly a gas sipper :)OK Stop dreaming - The '98 E-class will still last for years!

[MikeT]

The B Class and other Mercedes models seem to have bad rust treatment and paint. Hordes of A, B, C and other M-B cars have prematurely rusting doors and tailgates. Mine is no exception, though the rust has not yet set in. It starts in the seams where the doorskins are crimped around the door frame, and the mastic sealant is applied. In the area of this, the paint bubbles, lets water in, which then starts to work on the sacrificial galvanized coating, which then gives way (it's microns thin) and then the rust begins in earnest.TPM told me to take photos and said that if they are clear enough, the repair or replacements will be pre-approved. Car is out of base warranty but under extended warranty for another 3 years.My 21 year old Peugeot 405 with 366,000 km of cold weather driving on it had perfect doors (collision damage excepted!) so it's a big LOL to me that M-B has got it so very wrong.More info to follow...

[Francesco]

It's actually a fairly small batch of pre-2009 Bs that are affected, though it's nevertheless a huge problem (and embarrassment) for MB. Around 1200 in Canada are in the recognized batch almost all from the same run in late 2007.West Island has rebuilt a couple from the ground up, no cost to the owners.On another subject, if the silhouette of the heavily-disguised 2012 prototypes is anything to go by, it will be one hella fuggly car.

[MikeT]

In Europe the BElch-forums all report that cars built between 2005 and 2008 are affected, and it is super-widespread. There are some horrorshow photos I could share from there....Give the 2009-2011 models time and no doubt they too will be showing the same.Here is one pic of mine, not so horrific. But annoying. Would I buy another Mercedes? I didn't really want one in the first place, first choice would have been a Renault Scénic diesel....How I wish that I could still buy a new Peugeot or Renault in Canada. Sigh.

[MikeT]

Here is a link to the issue - you may have to join Benzworld to see the photos though. The affected cars in Canada at first were early 2005 builds and since then every subsequent model year up to 2009 has been shown to share the problem. Welcome to the 1960s era of rust protection!

Link to Benzworld W245 rust discussion

I do have a good dealer though so I expect it will be sorted out eventually, maybe only to reappear three years later

[MikeT]

In case you can't see the photos at the link, here is an example of what happens after the paint lets water and salt in for a season:

[yellow bumble bee]

Now what do they say? Never mistake German technology for French reliability.Roy

[MikeT]

The photo of the green door is not my car. We will see what they do with the info I have sent.French cars = reliable: That's what I always say! It's held true over 30+ years of ownership for me at least.

[MikeT]

TPM have authorization for two new doors, to replace the ones that are affected. The other doors and hatch will be covered for another 4 years from today, if anything starts there, very satisfactory I would say.

[deezle]

It is definitely in Mercedes' interest to bite the bullet and deal with these ---- otherwise in a few years there will be rusted billboards driving around everywhere ---- reminding other potential customers what can happen.

[Graham]

It is definitely in Mercedes' interest to bite the bullet and deal with these ---- otherwise in a few years there will be rusted billboards driving around everywhere ---- reminding other potential customers what can happen.

I think they already know. Newer used Mercedes are going for rock bottom prices. Buyers are afraid to buy them because of perceived (and real) high maintenance costs, especially at dealers. Rumours of rust problems make this worse.I have 3 old MBs - The newest is a pristine '98 E320 (170k km), the second a good '85 300D (420k km) and the third a very good '72 350SL (152k Mi). The E320 would fetch the lowest price if I sold them today. The older cars are from MBs previous era.I would like to replace the E320. But, it seems that no matter whatever car I buy, I should look first at warranty coverage. Then decide whether to buy or lease. Maintenance is becoming a huge part of car ownership, but we worry more about fuel consumption!

[MikeT]

Even the old school M-Bs were rust buckets. I've seen photos of collapsed McPherson spring cups, detached struts/lower control arms and so on on W123s and other oldies....not to mention the bodies themselves which were really quite poor for rust resistance. Which is funny, they've lagged well behind the competition in rust protection, even now.The car will be going to the M-B body shop in North Vancouver for the work. The techs there have literally just had a course on how to protect the replacement doors from self-destructing, by reps from the Rastatt plant where the A and B are made.

[Graham]

Even the old school M-Bs were rust buckets. I've seen photos of collapsed McPherson spring cups, detached struts/lower control arms and so on on W123s and other oldies....not to mention the bodies themselves which were really quite poor for rust resistance. Which is funny, they've lagged well behind the competition in rust protection, even now.The car will be going to the M-B body shop in North Vancouver for the work. The techs there have literally just had a course on how to protect the replacement doors from self-destructing, by reps from the Rastatt plant where the A and B are made.

Re the old benzes - My 38 yr old SL (owned for 21 years) has never had ANY rust repairs on the body. Just a couple of small repairs on the inner fender liners one of which I did myself. It doesn't get regular rust treatment, but doesn't see any salt and not much rain either.- My 25 yr old 300D has had some rust, mainly around the wheel wells which I have had repaired 3 times. 5 years ago, I had whole car repainted. But this car has been driven in the worst possible conditions as my main business car when I was doing consulting work throughout the province. It's done 420km km and still looks and runs great. I also see mid 70's W123s around in similar condition. I wouldn't knock these cars - they and the W126s are MBs best effort, IMO. If abused, just like any other car, you will see bad examples. But at least they didn't rust out in a year or two like the B Class. Remember what domestic and Asian cars were like for rust at the time those 70s/80s Benzes were built! Never mind the British and cheap European cars that were so bad they couldn't exist in Quebec & Ontario!It IS hard to understand why MB have a problem with the B-Class especially in a salt free environment like BC. We of course don't get the A-Class, but I hadn't heard of problems with the C-Class. They have recently made a change and now apparently North American C-Classes are being built in South Africa. Don't know if that is good or not! They did have problems in the late 90s with W210 and others and it cost them a lot. I would have thought by now they would have had their act together.

[Francesco]

Neighbour just told me again that the affected Bees are from a very specific build, but said 3200 in Canada in all. All have apparently been accounted for.

[MikeT]

Supposedly there have been two more improvements made to the door and hatch production processes made since the end of 2008. I thought that I should have sprayed Waxoyl in all the cavities when the car was new...but I was dissuaded from doing it by the terms of Mercedes' rust warranty. So I didn't...and I guess it's a good thing, because if the seams were bad enough to allow rust to begin anyway, they could have denied coverage. I guess I will have the same debate with myself when the new doors are in.....though I do understand that they are now (finally) applying wax into the doors at the factory (mine were bone dry).It is absolutely not "salt-free in BC". We have - even in the cool Mediterranean biogeoclimatic zone on the east coast of Vancouver Island - about 30 days each winter where salt is liberally distributed/sprayed on the roads. Interior parts of BC are far more wintry than southern Ontario. For example, when I lived in Rossland in the West Kootenays for a decade, the average annual snowfall was 4.5 to 5 metres. But it was cold enough that often salt would not be effective. It tended only to be used during warmer melt periods, above -2 C. Plus, being right by the ocean, there is salt in the air all the time. There are lots of older Benz cars here that have been on this island all their lives, which should be condemned due to severe rust. But we have no safety check so they drive on (mostly as bio-diesel co-op member cars, the greenies).It has been taking about 2-3 years for the first surface rust to appear on B Class doors. I've yet to see a photo of an A or B door that has been perforated by rust, although I can imagine that it could happen in about 5-6 years if the surface rust was left untreated. The A and B are the worst for this, but the German press has reported some incidents with other current/recent series as well. Anyway, here's hoping M-B gets their act together soon.Anything less than 400K km with this car without a major failure would be a serious disappointment, my Peugeots have set the standard very high. I would have preferred a Renault Scénic but settled on the B because it was the closest thing to it available in Canada. The only other car in their range that could interest me would be the C with a 4 cylinder diesel, though it is more of a large 2+2 than a real family car. The other M-B models turn me off completely!

[MikeT]

Neighbour just told me again that the affected Bees are from a very specific build, but said 3200 in Canada in all. All have apparently been accounted for.

Could you get a VIN range for me?

The German forums report that ALL W245 B and W169 A Classes up to late 2008 (intro of the facelifted version) have this problem. It just shows up sooner in some cars than others.

Die Verarbeitung der Türen wurde im Lauf der Produktion der B-Klasse mehrfach geändert.

Zuletzt Mitte 2008 mit der Modellpflege, kam die Einbringung von Wachs und dann gab es jetzt nochmals Anfang 2010 eine weitere Änderung, wo unter anderem die Schnittkanten anders beschichtet und verklebt werden. Mit der jetzt in 2010 getroffenen Maßnahme - welche seit einer Weile auch in anderen Baureihen ab Werk zum Einsatz kommen - sollte das Thema Korrosion eigentlich kein Thema mehr sein.

So in Canada that would be about 8200 cars, of the 2006-2008 model years, all affected. And the first of the "facelift" cars were identical door-wise to their predecessors save the addition of wax spray into the door cavities. In 2010 according to the quote above, a more important technical adjustment was made.

[Graham]

Here is one family's choice - family outing? Is that a Renault??

[deezle]

Looks kinda like a Saab? The kids were probably fighting in the back seat.

[MikeT]

Dacia 12 I would think. Hello off-topic!

[deezle]

Hello off-topic!

Nope. Look at that photo, then read the title of this topic.

[MikeT]

93,000 km update:TPM has just replaced the starter motor ($1400 job if I had to pay cash for it).And the link for the LH anti-roll bar has two faulty joints that knock like hell over small bumps, those too will be replaced when the parts come in, under warranty, cost at retail about $400 all in.So the $2300 extended warranty "owes me" $500 or so.The way the M-B ELW works, the clock starts ticking today, so I have ELW until January 24, 2014, or 160,000 km, whichever comes sooner.BTW, TPM keeps 3 B Class starter motors in stock and they have changed quite a few of them (as you could imagine, for their parts department to have 3 in stock!).Thanks to TPM for another job well done.

[MikeT]

Update:The B had a service at 106,000 km yesterday. Cost was $500 all in, including a brake fluid change, new rear wiper and filters etc. I finally was able to make the growling A/C compressor make noise when the car was at the dealer (think of the "One Froggy Evening" WB cartoon) and so the compressor was condemned and will be replaced under ELW in just over a week. That will no doubt bring the total retail vale of repairs under warranty to over $3K, so I am "in the black" on the price of the ELW, with another 54,000 km and up to 2.5 years more coverage on the car.On the other issue of opening panel corrosion, the Field Development Magager of M-B corporate had a boo at the car's panels yesterday (I had marked up the paint bubbles on the inside door seams with grease pencil to make identifying them - in my absence - easier) and all 5 panels have been approved for replacement. I will contact M-B's North Vancouver body workshop tomorrow to have them order the panels in. The car should be going in for the work in the early fall.Thanks to Three Point Motors and Mercedes-Benz Canada for taking the door seam problem very seriously and supporting their products and customers very well.One might think that with all these issues, I would hate the car etc but the opposite is true, we love it and we'll be keeping it a long tome I think. The fuel economy is very good, the room is unparalleled, it's comfortable in most road situations and is huge inside. It's a keeper.