451

[MikeT]

I see our colleagues at the principal British smart forum, smart maniacs, have set up separate forums for the "G1 and G2" fortwos (a.k.a. 450) and another for the 451, on a permanent basis.

I read that the intention here at CsC is to move to an integrated fortwo forum shortly. For me this creates the following problems:

unless the vehicle-related posts in the combined forum are ALWAYS prefixed with a "450" or "451", there will be confusion over which car the comment/question/how-to applies to. For example: "How do I disable DRL?": for the 450, it is done a certain way. But fot the 451 it is almost certainly going to be done another way. A 450 owner posts the generic How-to, 451 owner tries instructions and they don't work. Frustration and peripheral off-topic discussion ensues.

[*]Volume. By the end of 2008, the majority of our members will be (US) 451 drivers, and 450 owners will have to search - using the crappy search function - in the nooks and crannies between the 451 stuff for things that apply to their cars.

[*]Unless a static website is set up shortly, with clear 450/451 delineations, the whole mess will become unmanageable. It is amazing how quickly we transitioned from a growth phase to a chaos phase, and we are well into the chaos phase now, which started about the end of last year IMO. I know Awesys is working really hard on this, in between university work, but maybe some more people need to step up and volunteer to make this happen really soon.

I won't be following up, but at least this should be considered. Thank you.

[Duck]

Great idea, Mike - I think it should be split as well.-Iain

[danno]

Can we get the profiles updated to include a selection for 450 or 451? I know not everyone updates their profile but we do encourage it (particularly for location now). This would at least give some indication as to which vehicle to poster is discussing (unless otherwise stated).

[idahosmart]

I agree that it would be good that have a 450/451 split for relevant topics (technical, for sale, etc.), but have common topics for shared subjects (introductions, general discussion, regional groups, etc.).Tom

[IMSMRT]

I guess the descent into "chaos" at "the end of last year" was the choice of the BOD at the time...

[Awesys]

Can we get the profiles updated to include a selection for 450 or 451? I know not everyone updates their profile but we do encourage it (particularly for location now). This would at least give some indication as to which vehicle to poster is discussing (unless otherwise stated).

This is a good idea. I'll have to look into how to do this with phpBB.Some discussion about this topic also at: http://www.clubsmartcar.com/index.php?showtopic=12056

[gotwavs]

Can we get the profiles updated to include a selection for 450 or 451? I know not everyone updates their profile but we do encourage it (particularly for location now). This would at least give some indication as to which vehicle to poster is discussing (unless otherwise stated).

This is a good idea. I'll have to look into how to do this with phpBB.

You might want to add a selection for both as well as 450 and 451 in the profile as there are sure to be owners of the 450 that will elect to keep their 450 when they get a new 451. Work, work, work. A webmasters work is never done.

[SmartieParts]

Ok, what I've done is download and install the "new" phpbb3 on my personal site and I'll be testing it.

Once i get the initial skeleton set up, I'll be asking for input on how you'd like to see things structured. What is too narrow, and what is too broad.. that sort of thing.

Then I'll ask that a LOT of people do a LOT of testing and messing around so we can see if there are any initial bugs and problems. And if not... that is, if "release candidate 7" is finally stable enough to move forward with, maybe we'll make the switch ahead of schedule. We were waiting for phpbb to be fully released but its taking too long.

Unfortunately, without sub-categories it is not easy to organize the forum how we should with the existing software.

Stay tuned.

- Steven

ps. The site will be at: http://www.stevenmorehouse.com/testforum but keep in mind it is in a state of flux and I'm more-or-less just playing around with it right now. There won't be any real content, just example on organization possibilities.

[I'm_now_smarter]

Steven,Sounds good-- I can already see signs of needing the split.I'll go back to plugging away at logging content of the forum, which may help ID some future sub-categories. The next couple of weeks won't be a lot of progress, though.Just a question: if you set it up now without sub-categories, can they be added later?

[SmartieParts]

Yes

[darren]

I'm on a few forums that are run on vBulletin, and it's a way better forum implementation than phpBB, and there's a very active developer community with thousands of add-ons available. One of the things that can be added are "tags" to threads, so for example, any thread that deals with 451 issues can be tagged as a 451 thread, and then a user can search (or browse) by tags, instead of having a rigid directory/subdirectory structure imposed, which requires a lot of moderation and maintenance.They probably have migration tools for transferring a phpBB database over to vBulletin. Just an idea, anyway.

[SmartieParts]

Ok, I've got the skeleton pretty much done. Again, its at: http://www.stevenmorehouse.com/testforum/

I'd like to point out a couple of things right off the bat:

1) General categories. Instead of "Smart Car Forums", "Technical", "Regional Smart Car Groups/Clubs" I've themized it so its about the people, the place, and the thing... so "Club Membership Discussions", "Smart Car Discussions", and "Region Specific Discussions". Not a big change, but things like "technical" can and should go inside the Car category rather than being on its own. And with sub-forums, that's easier now.

2) Sub forums. We can drill down as narrow or stay as broad as we need to. For a narrow look, I'll draw your attention to the following structure:

Region Specific Discussions --> United States --> NorthEastern --> Middle Atlantic --> New York State --> New York City --> Queens

That's pretty extreme, but it demonstrates just how organized we can be if the need arises. Imagine 10000 members all from NYC (yeah right).. it is feasible that this kind of detail could be good. But it doesn't have to happen right away! We would start with just, say, United States --> North Eastern. Then, as more and more members start to discuss activities that are just from a particular area (NY State) we can split it off and move all the related discussions into there.

Now, also look at Smart Car Discussions --> Modifications and Performance.

Notice inside there will be all our discussions as normal, but anything relating to the 450 specifically will go in its own sub-forum.

This isn't the only way to do it. We can also have something like:

Smart Car Discussions --> Modifications and Performance.

|___> 450

|___> 451

and do it that way.

But if we're honest with ourselves, we'll realize our 450's are going to be the thing of the past. And if we're going to keep the site current, I think the focus should be on the latest generation and push old topics to "archive-like" sub-forums.

Thoughts?

- Steven

[SmartieParts]

I'm on a few forums that are run on vBulletin, and it's a way better forum implementation than phpBB, and there's a very active developer community with thousands of add-ons available. One of the things that can be added are "tags" to threads, so for example, any thread that deals with 451 issues can be tagged as a 451 thread, and then a user can search (or browse) by tags, instead of having a rigid directory/subdirectory structure imposed, which requires a lot of moderation and maintenance.They probably have migration tools for transferring a phpBB database over to vBulletin. Just an idea, anyway.

That was looked at before, but not really followed up on because internally we didn't have the familiarity with vBulletin. As well, it costs money where phpBB is free. But tags seem cool. Maybe that's a feature with phpBB3? I'm still playing with it. - Steven

[MikeT]

I like the ideas you have presented, Steven. I think it'll make the place keep up with the times.

[darren]

That was looked at before' date=' but not really followed up on because internally we didn't have the familiarity with vBulletin. As well' date=' it costs money where phpBB is free.[/quote'']

... and that's why people end up waiting 3+ years for the next version of phpBB to come out. Sometimes, one does truly get what one pays for.

[SmartieParts]

No argument there Darren! In theory, free is the best value in more ways than money though. USUALLY, opensource = huge community of supports = rapid development and a terrific product. But phpBB went through some odd organizational changes that rocked it a bit more than expected, leaving them with a small (but recovering) core group of programmers and the transition form V2 to V3 has taken a very very long time.Still, release candidate 7 seems stable enough and I'd appreciate if a whole lot of you could go to the sample test site I set up and play around with it. I don't think there's anything stopping people from registering and posting and trying things... but so far I don't see any of that as it shows a total of 1 member... me.Switching to Vbulletin will be no more or less of a nightmare as switching to phpBB3... or anything else for that matter. The trick is to find the best one. So if you can show me an example of that tagging you were talking about, I'd like to check it out. - Steven

[I'm_now_smarter]

Steven-- so you went with a "function based" classification. Makes sense, and that's the direction most classification systems are going... Just one thought: instead of "club membership", perhaps call it "CsC Community"? Since there are no membership dues, calling it "club membership" an be confusing (perhaps that's something we should think of, if better software costs money? say, a $5/a membership fee, for which you support a software platform that makes it easy to participate and, say, a decal for your car that shows you're a CsC smartie? I'm sure that's been considered before, but perhaps now is the time to revisit it?)As for the drill down-- that's an awful lot of clicking for our hypothetical Queens members to do just to see if there's anything new in their area. While it's unlikely we'll get to that point in that particular forum, it's possible that we could in other areas-- say the modifications or general maintenance. Unless there's a way to hive off certain topics as static articles associated with certain fora, or lop off a discussion and move the branch farther up the tree? Say, all the tires or all the oil or all the diesel-y quirks (I've only been here a month, and even I've noticed how these topics come up over & over again!). People don't like drilling down much; they meander off before they get too far. Any ideas for how to handle that? How do other community groups (with this software or other software) do it? sorry, that wasn't very coherent. time to crash for the night

[SmartieParts]

CsC Community... I like that better, thanks.Yeah, I get what you're saying with the drilling down. There's probably a way of menu-ing it (made that verb up) so that its quicker to get from point A to D without going through B and C. I don't think other than the regional threads that it would ever be a problem though. Other than splitting off MAJOR characteristics like 450 vs 451 or gas vs diesel I can't see needing it that uber-organized in a discussion forum. That's what the static site will be for.And for the regional threads, it was just an example of how it could be. IF our membership gets so huge and diverse that it could become a benefit. Really, it could just start with Canada/US/World and make new subs as required/requested. - Steven

[gotwavs]

I did a little bit of testing. I added a post and PMed you on the test forum. I didn't notice any bugs.I like the features:View your postsbookmarksthe friends thing is neat.

[Tardis]

I'm not computer savy but I found the site and actually understood it. It was easy to navigate. Just one thing is there going to be a sellers or promotion area? maybe a car boot sales area for people like myself that sell things smart related and also others that sell say cupholders etc.Like I said I'm not computer savy so I hope this is clear that I am not being pushy or anything but I can remember it being brought up that other members who sold other than smart things wanted a listing of sorts. I for one would rather buy a **** from a member than go to a stranger.I'm not sure this is possible just my thoughts Thanks for your hard work.KarenStitch N Smart

[SmartieParts]

Hi Karen,

Good point. I made a section called "Market Place" but didn't put anything in it so its still invisible. But yes, there will always be a section for vendors on clubsmartcar no matter what software platform we use.

One thing I've always though, is that "Buyer's Guide" should be related to the cars... pre-purchase decision making and advice. Not for buying "stuff" but for buying the cars themselves.

So in Market Place would be:

- a place for vendors to sell their wares related to smarts

- a classifieds for people to sell their own stuff related to smarts

- *maybe* a classifieds for anyone privately selling anything not related to smarts (no business activity for non-smart stuff would be allowed, I think)

- *maybe* a special section for dealerships to advertise.

Anything else?

I also think it would be more than possible to have each vendor have their own private showcase area that they would have moderation rights to. Little store fronts, if you will. Possibly with a charge associated with it, I dunno. Just ideas that are much easier to implement on the new version (impossible to do that one now).

- Steven

[SmartieParts]

Good call on the 451/450 vernacular Keith... its hardly universal, and from a US perspective (at least the layman's) the smart is the smart and won't know or care that there was some previous model with a different designation. So yeah, a reference to the year will be made.I suggested that Auto Talk go in with Community Chatter, Introductions, and any other forum that is more about the people and their interests rather than the smart itself. If you look at my sample site, I have them all under a category called "CsC Community Discussions" (thank you I'm_now_smarter) along with Eco Matters, which is where I figure non-smart-specific eco-talk can take place. - Steven

[I'm_now_smarter]

I like your vision for the market place, particularly the spot for vendors. Could you include some text for the vendor showcase "storefronts" or maybe even sections within the marketplace for indication of specializations? That way, if you're looking for little smartware stuff, or great rims, or help with modifications, you can find the appropriate business. Right now, it's rather mixed up so it's a bit overwhelming if you've got a specific want in mind. I also like the idea about splitting up the eco talk from the mileage talk... I'll explore your sample site a bit more, because it seems that I missed some features. It'll be my reward for when I get this miserable last stats assignment done...

[SmartieParts]

Remember, the sample site is just for two purposes right now.. demonstrate the possibility of using sub-forums to better organize, and to do some prelim testing on the new version of the software to see if there are any fundamental bugs. That's it for the time being.I'm not sure how we'd indicate their specializations... I mean, there could be room for the vendor themselves to put a blurb, but I don't think it would be up to the management to describe the vendors - probably wouldn't be fair to them or their competition really. Vendor A and B both sell wheels... which is the specialist? Or.. Vendor A sells wheels and brakes, but we call him a wheel specialist? I'm not saying it can't be done - I just don't quite see how but certainly open to your suggestions! - Steven

[SmartieParts]

Ok, I just downloaded (shh... don't ask/tell where i got it) the latest VBulletin and installed it.First impressions... from an admin/development point of view, the phpBB3 is vastly superior... WAY easier to use. One of the first things I tried with phpBB3 was the search function, and after some simple searches I'd say it is improved over phpBB2. But the vBulletin search sucks even worse than phpBB2 if you can imagine that!! I made a couple simple posts, then searched for some words that were in there and it couldn't find them!!! The phpBB3 test found them every time.So from a search standpoint, which has been a very sore point here for a long time, I think phpBB3 is the way to go.Off to do more testing.... - Steven