Honda to Launch New Hybrid Model!

[Francesco]

I've read a couple of reviews of the Insight and neither mentioned the extreme lack of rear headroom. I think the "back seats" in the original Insight were better

One of the more recent ones I read did mention that the Insight fails the "me-behind-me" test only slightly, while the new Prius passes; neither has good rear head room.

[steveyfrac]

Insight: headroom 38.4"/ 35.9" legroom 42.3/ 33.5Fit: headroom 40.4 / 39.0 legroom 41.3 / 34.5 Current Prius: headroom 39.1 /37.3 legroom 41.9/ 38.6The next generation Prius is apparently roomier than the current one.

The back seat looks tight. But kids don't need much room, and no subcompacts have luxuriously spacious back seats.

[Francesco]

Heck, despite growth (bloat) with every generation, the Jetta and Golf still don't have big back seats compared to their price-category competition (Camry, Accord and Altima). I can finally fit behind myself in both, but barely... and I'm only 5'9" or so. The new C-Klasse is similarly compact on the inside, but despite seeming cozy and snug, I have no trouble sitting behind myself in it, same as the B.

[steveyfrac]

My point exactly. The insight is not designed to be a family hauler. It's designed to be a super commuter with 4 doors. I think it fits the expectation perfectly. You could take the kids to school on your way to work. But not on vacation. I'm cool with that if i can get 70 MPG.

[Francesco]

Totally. The main reason I drive a two-seater is because I can count on one hand the number of times in four years I had anybody in the back seat of my five-door Golf -- and it averaged around 10 L/100 Km over those four years.

By doing my own maintenance and learning to do most of my own service work, I'm hoping to mitigate most of the extra cost of smart ownership for the first four years, while saving a lot fuel. But if I didn't want to do that, and needed a new car, the new Insight would leap to the top of my current list.

[Francesco]

I stopped by the Honda store this afternoon to pick up wiper blade inserts for the Accord. They had a Cerulean Blue Insight EX/navi on display, but no pricing info or brochures. Strangely, none of the sales staff seemed the least bit interested in me.

I did the "me-behind-me" test and it passed. In fact, there appears to be more leg room than in our 2002 Accord sedan. However, there is only about an inch of room above my head in the back seat, and I'm only 5'9" with average leg and torso length. The cargo area is surprisingly roomy for such an aero fastback/Kammbach design, and there are lots of storage nooks in the spare tire well under the floor. The lift-over height is kind of high, and the hatch opening is somewhat small, but on the plus side, the rear seat is a 60/40 folder -- unlike the fixed rear seat back in the Civic Hybrid.

The interior shows clearly that they've used less expensive materials, more like the Yaris and smart than the Civic or Rabbit. The ergonomics are typically superb, with the exception being the usual Honda ingress/egress difficulty. It just seems very low to the ground for its height and size, and I almost hit my head on the A and C pillars, just like in every Honda and Acura I've encountered. The fit and finish, however, are very Honda: near perfect, as far as I could tell. I'll wait for a test-drive to check NVH, but the door and hatch slams were very solid, satisfying "thunks."

I'd like to see what's different on the LX model; I don't like OE nav systems, and luckily the Insight's UI doesn't require its screen.

[steveyfrac]

I stopped by the Honda store this afternoon to pick up wiper blade inserts for the Accord. They had a Cerulean Blue Insight EX/navi on display, but no pricing info or brochures. Strangely, none of the sales staff seemed the least bit interested in me.

I did the "me-behind-me" test and it passed. In fact, there appears to be more leg room than in our 2002 Accord sedan. However, there is only about an inch of room above my head in the back seat, and I'm only 5'9" with average leg and torso length. The cargo area is surprisingly roomy for such an aero fastback/Kammbach design, and there are lots of storage nooks in the spare tire well under the floor. The lift-over height is kind of high, and the hatch opening is somewhat small, but on the plus side, the rear seat is a 60/40 folder -- unlike the fixed rear seat back in the Civic Hybrid.

The interior shows clearly that they've used less expensive materials, more like the Yaris and smart than the Civic or Rabbit. The ergonomics are typically superb, with the exception being the usual Honda ingress/egress difficulty. It just seems very low to the ground for its height and size, and I almost hit my head on the A and C pillars, just like in every Honda and Acura I've encountered. The fit and finish, however, are very Honda: near perfect, as far as I could tell. I'll wait for a test-drive to check NVH, but the door and hatch slams were very solid, satisfying "thunks."

I'd like to see what's different on the LX model; I don't like OE nav systems, and luckily the Insight's UI doesn't require its screen.

The big differences i THINK are

LX does NOT have:

Alloy wheels, sunroof, Navigation, bluetooth connectivity, and ipod controler thingamajig.

LX DOES have

Cruise, A/C, stereo

The LX is a well optioned little beast. It's what i would buy.

[Francesco]

Yeah, I don't dig the alloys on the EX. I'd rather have the HCH wheels, or something like the shallow-dish fortwo pulse alloys. The tires on the Insight are 175/65R15 all around, and Dunlops for a change. I honestly didn't notice if it had a moon roof, but I like that it might; I can't stand that it's not an option on the HCH or any sub-compact cars in North America.

[steveyfrac]

Yeah, I don't dig the alloys on the EX. I'd rather have the HCH wheels, or something like the shallow-dish fortwo pulse alloys. The tires on the Insight are 175/65R15 all around, and Dunlops for a change. I honestly didn't notice if it had a moon roof, but I like that it might; I can't stand that it's not an option on the HCH or any sub-compact cars in North America.

is that moonroof as opposed to sunroof? The cobalt lineup has a sunroof option. tbh, i'm not sure what the difference is. I know the LX doesn't have any kind of glass roof. The ex might. I sat in the LX.

[Francesco]

Oh, and I should admit that it is much better-looking IRL than in pictures. The front end looks like there are plenty of opportunities for the hardcore hypermilers to tweak its already-low Cd, too.

[Francesco]

is that moonroof as opposed to sunroof? The cobalt lineup has a sunroof option. tbh, i'm not sure what the difference is. I know the LX doesn't have any kind of glass roof. The ex might. I sat in the LX.

Used to be a sunroof was a pop-up (possibly removable), while a moon roof was a motorized slider. I don't think there has been a pop-up offered for sale in about 20 years, but I got in the habit way back then and never shook it. Sunroof == moon roof nowadays.

[steveyfrac]

Used to be a sunroof was a pop-up (possibly removable), while a moon roof was a motorized slider. I don't think there has been a pop-up offered for sale in about 20 years, but I got in the habit way back then and never shook it. Sunroof == moon roof nowadays.

Either way i'm very excited about the silly car. It's teh sexy some would even say. Personally, i've had a moonroof on the last couple of cars i've owned, minus the smart. I rarely use them. Too noisy on the highway, too cold in the winter, to warm in the summer. That leaves spring and fall to and from the highway. And that's just no fun.

[Duck]

Get a room! -Iain

[deezle]

I found an interesting spec comparison between the new Insight and 2010 Prius that MotorTrend put together: link.

Note: Toyota has since knocked $1000 U.S. off the price of the new Prius.

Edited April 24, 2009 by deezle

[Francesco]

It would appear it's easier to better the EPA figures in the Honda than in the Toyota, from all I've read.

[Francesco]

Just looked at the specs comparing the LX and EX... there is enough of a difference to justify the price disparity, and many items are not available as options on the LX -- such as VSA with Traction Control, or variable intermittent wipers. In other words, Honda has managed to down-spec a full-featured hybrid to a low price-point that appears may even be profitable for them. But the price of a fully-equipped EX brings it into the Prius neighbourhood, where it simply doesn't stack up (aesthetics notwithstanding).

http://honda.ca/HondaCA2006/Models/Insight/2010/Specs?L=E

Edited April 24, 2009 by SameGuy

[steveyfrac]

Just looked at the specs comparing the LX and EX... there is enough of a difference to justify the price disparity, and many items are not available as options on the LX -- such as VSA with Traction Control, or variable intermittent wipers. In other words, Honda has managed to down-spec a full-featured hybrid to a low price-point that appears may even be profitable for them. But the price of a fully-equipped EX brings it into the Prius neighbourhood, where it simply doesn't stack up (aesthetics notwithstanding).

http://honda.ca/HondaCA2006/Models/Insight/2010/Specs?L=E

And yet, the LX has everything a driver needs, including Cruise, climate control, and 5 wheels in various locations (possibly six if you include the spare). And does better then anything but a Prius on gas. The price difference is definitely justified though. There is a big gap in features.

[MikeT]

Now if they would only make the rear passenger guillotine standard, we'd be on our way!

[steveyfrac]

Any Thoughts on the Honda Civic Hybrid? does it do as well as the Insight fuel wise? It has a bigger battery, and a more sophisticated gas engine.

[MikeT]

We have one as a staff car at work. Its lifetime FE is 5.77 L/100 km, notwithstanding the fact that NRCAN says it should only do as badly as 4.7 L/100 km in the worst part of the official cycle (and 4.5 overall). The average of all HCHII cars on spritmonitor is 5.72 L/100 km so ours is not a "bad" one. That would be like the smart cdi spritmonitor average being 5.55 overall (it's about 4.12 L/100 km).

The thing about it too is the electric drive is a 100 m sprinter, meaning that the entire usable storage capacity can be used up on a 5 or 6 km uphill drive, at which point the ECU diverts ICE engine power to charge up the battery, making the car unacceptably slow (especially with four or five up) compared to what it usually can do on a steep mountain road. The ED does help with the stoplight racing (though the car is slower than a Yaris), but unless all you do is urban driving, that wears thin soon. Our office HCH is used about 50-50% city/highway.

Rear headroom is bad, though not as egregiously so as the new Insight. The plastics in the interior off-gas something fierce. Even now after 16 months it still reeks inside there. The ride is harsh and road noise transmission is very high, almost like there are no suspension bushings

On the positive side, even 5.8 L/100 km is not bad, though I would get a TDI instead and probably do better. Also, they should be reasonably reliable, though there have been a few service bulletins concerning rear suspension geometry problems and some other matters. Overall the maintenance and reliability should be better than a smart or VW.

[Duck]

My 1998 Tercel averaged less than 6 L/100 km!! Jeez...-Iain

[steveyfrac]

That is entirely unimpressive. That kinda scraps the idea of getting a used HCH. Ouch. Srsly. I can often average better then 5.7 on my drive to work in my mundane cobalt. Lifetime average is at 6.2L/100km though.

[Nextourer]

The big differences i THINK are LX does NOT have:Alloy wheels, sunroof, Navigation, bluetooth connectivity, and ipod controler thingamajig.LX DOES have Cruise, A/C, stereoThe LX is a well optioned little beast. It's what i would buy.

It doesn't have TCS or VSA either.

is that moonroof as opposed to sunroof? The cobalt lineup has a sunroof option. tbh, i'm not sure what the difference is. I know the LX doesn't have any kind of glass roof. The ex might. I sat in the LX.

Moonroof is the glass version of the sunroof. Moonroof allows light to come into the cabin while a sunroof doesn't. Both will tilt and slide. (motorised ones, not the pop-ups lol)

[IMSMRT]

I flew into Comox tonight and on the way through town spotted a new Insigth at the Honda dealer. What a hot looking car. Dealer was closed but I was not alone gawking at it! The red paint is VERY nice! Forgot to look at which package it had but it was 28k.

[Francesco]

That's an EX; the LX starts at $23900.