MikeT Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 The holes in the outer links don't wear, the pins are a tight fit and peened in place so no movement there.I think my explanation was bad about the links themselves stretching, all I was meaning before is that the distance between pins was elongated 10%, of course it was a whole pile of links across which I was measuring, not just one!lebikerboy explained what I was trying to say..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Dom that car sounds sort of normal to me, maybe a bit of a a "sliding" sound....I am not sure what it is, are you sure it is coming from the area of the chains? It even could be the alternator...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselkiki Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Dom that car sounds sort of normal to me, maybe a bit of a a "sliding" sound....I am not sure what it is, are you sure it is coming from the area of the chains? It even could be the alternator...?Yeap! The noise come from chain housing but... most in the bottom than from upper cover. Maybe the oil pump chain. I dont know. I'll open the engine when I'll be abble to lend a car for a week. For the alternator, it a fact, even if I have replace it last spring, the front bearing turn rough. It's the reason why I removed both belts last weekend to make a better diagnostic. But unfortunately, the chain noise was just more audible and clear. Thank you for your comments.Dom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Maybe your oil pump chain tensioner is dead, so I think you are doing the right thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselkiki Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yeah but I was hoping to find some technical information here. Unfortunately... I'll must search somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 We're trying to help, but unfortunately Mercedes is rather stingy with the technical details. There was a thread way back with some good photos of the oil pump chain, I can't recall any detailed info on the timing chain. It looks like the pan could be dropped with the engine in place, that would make the oil pump chain an easy job, and let you inspect the timing chain from a different perspective and on the other sprocket. The video doesn't sound terribly scary to me. Bit of a hissing sliding note. In person has much better sound quality, perhaps there's something I'm missing. Good luck, keep us posted. I want to keep my smart for a long time yet, and any information gets filed under "valuable".Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselkiki Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 So... the newer mercedes diesel cdi dont realy have the same reliability than older one. Piece of &*$?%?!!! GRRRRRRRR!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I can't see what's wrong in that photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Is that a missing tooth or more on the sprocket? And a LOT of slack in the chain for sure. In any case good on you for getting on it before catastrophe ensued.What is the oil change history, and driving conditions? A lot of city trips?I want to know when to do a preemptive on mine, sitting just shy of 140K and rising fast. I do have the favorable climate, lots of highway and 5K oil changes, so I'm not too worried. Yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I didn't see what was being photographed clearly enough to tell if a tooth was off, but doesn't the chain tensioner use oil pressure to take up slack in the chain?.....or is it reliant on spring loading only (in which case it is shot)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselkiki Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) My car have only 116000km. Almost just highway km. I change oil every +/- 7000km with mobile1 0W40 grade full synthétique. All filter are replaced in time, antifreez, transmission oil, belts etc... I taking care of that car like no other one. I just can't understand!! It's a real crap!!! My worst car ever!! The oil pump sprocket is dead! All the thoots are off by worn. The chain is slack and the tentioner look like new. What's wrong?? Spring are there and in good condition. The timing chain tentioner look to be activate by oil pressure but the oil pump tentioner is activate by a spring. I realy don't know what's happen here. No one can saying me. I think that is just because it's a bad engine desing error or a fail in material. Am I the only one who it happen??So, I'll never see the mercedes-benz diesel engine in the same way. I tought that was reliable and indestructible. Humm-humm... WRONG!!! Edited April 2, 2011 by dieselkiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 If you change the sprocket and chain, it should be OK for many km to come, no? I mean, if the worn sprocket teeth didn't cause the oil pressure warning light to go on, the oil pump was always driven when the engine was on, the engine should be fine once you replace the bad parts.I have heard of two other cars with this problem, one in the southern USA and one in Canada, so it seems to be rare. More common are valve lifter and valvetrain problems, but that too seems quite rare.My older smart has about 193,000 km on it and the oil is normally changed at between 9000 and 10,000 km. So far, so good. I just changed the oil two days ago at 9100.....Even modern Mercedes CDI engines (for example, the 350 CDI) are probably not as long-lived or reliable as the old indirect injection M-B and Peugeot diesels..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilgladstone Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) Clickety-clack, clickety-clack. Camera ran out of memory before I could get underneath! Sound is worse when cold. This is at 70Cwt.More anon. Bil P.S notice some critter is stashing seeds in the injector wells! Edited April 4, 2011 by bilgladstone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilgladstone Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) ... I think that is just because it's a bad engine desing error or a fail in material. Am I the only one who it happen??I think I have the exact same problem! 100,100km :angry:See here: LINK Edited April 10, 2011 by bilgladstone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselkiki Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 DAMN!!!! I must remove the timing chain to change the oil pump chain!!! The oil pump chain is under the timing chain. Why they did it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilgladstone Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 With the cog messed up like that, Dom, did you find any debris inside there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smart142 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I have an engine with the same missing teeth oil pump sprocket. Did all those metal grindings go into the internals???I took it to a machine shop to have it all checked. Should find out soon if it has to be junked or reused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselkiki Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 With the cog messed up like that, Dom, did you find any debris inside there?No debris found. Just some microscopic metal flake in oil when you check the oil pan at differents angles with a light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselkiki Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) So, I just came back from buying my job parts. I'll do the job next weekend if weather is good! So, I bought the oil pump chain, both sprockets, the binder with its spring. I also bought the front crankshaft oil seal because I must remove the pulley damper. I have some gasket maker to put back the front cover. I hope I wont need some other parts during the job. Edited May 4, 2011 by dieselkiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselkiki Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 DAMN!!! I break one of subframe bolt in the tridion and I break 2 ratchet + my socket to unsrew the dampe pulley bolt. It's an hard job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilgladstone Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Yikes! But we know you will conquer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 "The first 90% of the project takes the first 90% of the budgeted time and money. The last 10% of the project takes the other 90% of time and money".-Murphy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselkiki Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 (edited) So, there are a good and a bad news. Good news: The noise wasn't from the chain case. Bad news: I dont now where its come from. But... I'll show you what I did on that crappy car. First of all, I removed the oil. After this, I removed the the injector connectors to be abble to removed the valve cover. Removed the back pannel. So now... the f*cking valve cover can't be removed by the upper side and not more by the under side.... DAMN!!! I must drop the engine to have enought room to remove the valve cover. So, now, the valve cover is remove and I can take a look at the timing marks. After, I removed the pulley damper to be abble to remove the front cover. HUUUUUUGE job! I break a lot of tools!! Ha!! So, after front cover removing, the bad news occure!! Nothing wrong on both chain!!! 5h on job for nothing!! I'm very angry to have waste my time for nothing!! Both chain are ok! All sprocket are ok! All guides and tentionner are in good condition... where is the problem?? Hello??? No body can help?? Hmmm... unfortunately, not realy. No body know these OM660 engines. Even dealer dont know. I felt alone! So, thanks for all guys!! But I think that I'll sell that car. It's too hard to get informations and part. We really are too dependent of dealer when we are a smart fortwo owner. And this car is a "BITCH" to work on!! It's enought!! I sell it as soon as I can! Good night! Edited May 15, 2011 by dieselkiki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilgladstone Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 We are very grateful to you for sharing your experience and posting the photos. It is a shame that the solution to the problem continues to elude you. And me too, since I have a bothersome noise in my engine as well!Better luck to you in future...Bil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedie Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Check the oil pump and lifters/cam - they will be at about the same frequency and noise as the chain being slack. Typically the dealers replace the engines with long blocks or short block assemblies - it doesn't pay to do rebuilds in the dealer's shop so they send the cores away for a rebuild or use a new one. This is true for a lot of cars not just the smart.Also stick a hunk of plywood under the jack stands - gravel is not that secure and it really hurts to have a car fall on you. Cheers,Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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