TorqueJunkie Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) OK, sane noise with belts removed. Can it be chain and how can I access it? Edited October 21, 2016 by TorqueJunkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 You can remove timing cover without removing head. Sump must come off and also rocker cover. More info in below thread on Smartz: http://www.smartz.co.uk/showthread.php?22101-0-7-Smart-450-timing-chain-replacement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 How much work it can be in hours? Given I already have all tools and parts. It's my only car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 It took me a good day. Had trouble with rusty heads on a dozen Torx headed sump bolts and had to weld nuts to them to get something to grip onto. Assuming you may be changing timing chain same time you will need a 36 mm open ended spanner to counter hold on cam shaft. Use good sealant. I used black polyurethane sealant from a builders merchant, commonly known as PU40 here. Comes in 300 ml cartridges. No point starting the job unless you can undo crank pulley bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Thanks tolsen. Can this be caused due to extended/worn chain and loose tensioner? Edited October 21, 2016 by TorqueJunkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Timing chain tensioner seems to be extended near its maximum. Oil chain tensioner should not have wear marks like that. I would renew both chains complete with sprockets, guides and tensioners. Not conclusive as far as the noise source is concerned. You'll burn out collector rings unless you change brushes. Cost only two or three Pounds. Beware you have to hold brush wires tight with long nose pliers when soldering to prevent the solder wicking all the way to the brushes, rendering them stiff and useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) It is clear that pump chain tensioner should be replaced.... Edited October 21, 2016 by TorqueJunkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) There may be a slight wobble in pump shaft or something. Try fitting oil pump sprocket turned 180 degrees and see if wobble becomes less. Above photo shows a newly fitted timing chain. Cap at middle span is obviously greater than yours. I have not seen any specification for minimum gap. On my Cdi engine I turned both chains around 180 degrees. That helped a wee bit but perhaps not recommended. Edited November 22, 2015 by tolsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 You are right, this gap does look wider. And hydro tensioner is much less extruded. So I guess I'll throw new chain kit at it. Is this one any good? www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171360758046 I mean is it genuine smart? And is this price normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Bicycle chain wear gauge might work on this if it's standard link length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I doubt ebay item 171360758046 will be any worse than the original timing kit. Go for it and report back after a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) I'm wondering if I should buy a much more expensive one locally, or from ebay. Edited October 21, 2016 by TorqueJunkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Understood. So I have returned the kit and bought one from ebay... Which means plus one week of bicycle rides at 0°C. Edited November 25, 2015 by TorqueJunkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 That will keep you fit. Cycle rides are good for both heart and soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) OK, chain was replaced and it runs fine now, however there is a new rattle noise at 2000 rpm... Edited October 21, 2016 by TorqueJunkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 That does not sound healthy. Is timing correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I have timed it according to this guide: http://www.fq101.co.uk/how-to-guides/fortwo-450/engine/192-timing-the-smart-engine.html It ran fine at first, this happened only after 10 minutes of idling. Like something got loose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 When testing, incorrect timing can be diagnosed through backfiring, misfiring, or very rough idling, which may start to smooth out at higher revs. Above is last sentence in FQ101 guide on timing. The importance of getting timing right first time can never be sufficiently overemphasised. How did you torque bolt holding camshaft sprocket to camshaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) OK, I see. Will have to look again. Edited October 21, 2016 by TorqueJunkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I advise against tightening anything by feel. Better sticking to the specified torques and angle turn. You only remove chain cover? Sump must come off too. Have attached timing procedure. RoadsterTimingChain.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Just being a wee bit curious. Have you checked timing is right by turning engine by hand and feeling for valve/ piston interference? Also, have you checked if timing marks match up? Do that before removing timing cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) Timing marks of crank pulley should be aligned with chain cover, o it looks fine... Edited October 21, 2016 by TorqueJunkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Check if sprocket locating peg is still correctly engaged in camshaft slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 This document is not very clear... As per instruction in link above, I have aligned timing marks of crank pulley and chain cover, then I aligned a small hole of cam sprocket to the surface of cylinder head. But to the other side than described in attached document, which is 180 degrees or full crank revolution off, so is still ok. Also I did not let it rotate while changing the chain and the new one was perfectly aligned right away, I just doublechecked it with marks. Also I guess that incorrect aligning would cause it to run bad right from start, but I did have a very silent and smooth running for first 10 minutes, until it warmed up. I have rotated the engine with hand and have not noticed any interference... Engine is timed when cylinder no 1 is at TDC and at start of its firing stroke. Lobes on camshaft for no 1 cylinder will then be pointing up. This is the most stable position for timing chain replacement. The timing procedure described on FQ101 is not entirely correct since lobes are pointing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorqueJunkie Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Can it be the new chain tensioner? How can I inspect it? Edited October 21, 2016 by TorqueJunkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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