Jump to content

"Misfire" then powerless?


Recommended Posts

I've got a problem that I'm hoping someone has some ideas, or has experienced it before and has a fix for me. I'll be driving along normally, and I'll start up a moderate grade, requiring me to push the accelerator pedal a bit. The car will give a little hitch, like a misfire on a gas engine. After this little hitch the car seems to loose a LOT of power. If I want to try to keep speeds over 80km/h, I must be in 5th or even 4th on a hill. I do have to pretty much floor it and shift over 3.5k to accelerate. No lights illuminate, or anything else when this happens. I've run a generic scantool on the car and there are no stored codes that it can see. To resolve the problem I just pull off the road, turn the car off for 30 seconds or so, restart and it works normally. This can happen once a week, once a month, or multiple times a day. It's been happening on a more frequent basis lately. First time was in late March I believe. I do have the EGR simulator that's sold here installed, but that wasn't until mid-June. I did have a different ECU flash, but 2 weeks ago I flashed it back to my original. The car currently has just over 70,000 kms on it and everything else has been working well.Any ideas?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it's exactly what my 2005 did until the clutch actuator was changed at 88,000 km. It would kind of go "pop" and then not exceed 85 LOD on the ScanGauge, however it would go avbove 3000 RPM.The fault was a transmission code - slipping clutch during shifts. The clutch actuator was causing the problem. In the 113,000 km since it has been fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it's exactly what my 2005 did until the clutch actuator was changed at 88,000 km. It would kind of go "pop" and then not exceed 85 LOD on the ScanGauge, however it would go avbove 3000 RPM.The fault was a transmission code - slipping clutch during shifts. The clutch actuator was causing the problem. In the 113,000 km since it has been fine.

I hadn't thought about the transmission, and now that I think of it, it does happen when I'm downshifting or upshifting. That would also explain the lack of codes, only the Star would see transmission codes. I wonder if a clutch adjustment would help, I expect the last one it had was at the 32,000 B service. Although according to my maintenance book, the car was serviced by a mobile unit from another dealer. I doubt they could do the clutch adjustment via a mobile service unit. I've only had 1 A service at the dealer, as I thought $200 was a bit steep for basically an oil change and check brakes/fluids. Plus they're an hour and half from me and aren't open any evenings or weekends, so I have to take time off work. So me and my Pela do the oil changes...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When my clutch actuator was acting up, I got the 3 bars of death and very harsh shifting in lower gears.

Doing the clutch adjustment fixed my problem.

But it can't hurt to do the adjustment to your car and may fix the problem, but you will have to make time to go to the dealer for the teach in procedure with a star machine.

Here is the procedure.

http://www.evilution.co.uk/index.php?id=331

CANMAN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first link above is the same as Evilutions, just not as good, any time you mechanically adjust the clutch you have to electrically adjust it with the star machine.As to the second link here is a club smart car article and ducks video showing how to do it.http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?autocom=...rticle&id=3http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F...h?v=xLl1NTAPA_ECANMAN
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just remembered reading about a clutch fork failure, the thread recommended lubeing the actuator rod end and inspecting the fork for wear.

Loosening the bolts to adjust the actuator is almost the same as removing it so I would remove it and inspect and lube the rod end. (disconnect the wires, don't let it hang on them)

WARNING do not electrically power the actuator while removed, make sure the key is out of the ignition.

http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?showtopi...867&hl=Fork

CANMAN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When my clutch actuator was acting up, I got the 3 bars of death and very harsh shifting in lower gears.Doing the clutch adjustment fixed my problem.But it can't hurt to do the adjustment to your car and may fix the problem, but you will have to make time to go to the dealer for the teach in procedure with a star machine.Here is the procedure.http://www.evilution.co.uk/index.php?id=331CANMAN

Thanks CANMAN. I did do the actuator lube like in Duck's video last summer. My actuator used to make funny noises after I shut off the car and it released the clutch. After the treatment, the sound went away and I did notice smoother shifts.Funny thing is that shifting seems to be quite smooth, but after it acts up, it's a bit more harsh. It's not terrible, but it seems like very quick engagements. Shut off for 30 seconds and all is normal.I will try the adjustment, that's easy. I may book an appointment at the dealer to have them at least run STAR on it and see what codes might be in there. Might as well reteach the clutch while it's connected.Thanks for the info about the clutch fork failures, I guess I'll remove the actuator and lube that too! Edited by Xen0
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your welcome,Hope the lubing and adjustment solve your problem.Please post a follow up to let us know.By the way the guys discussing the clutch fork lube specified a special type of grease and careful application so it doesn't contaminate the clutch surface.CANMAN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took my clutch actuator off today and popped the rod out to have a look inside. Seemed very clean with a little bit of lube in there. I sprayed a bunch more in there and then followed the procedure to adjust it. Seems to shift much better, especially in reverse. It always seemed to slip a bit more then I thought was normal in reverse, but never really thought much of it. I'm going to make an appointment in the next couple of weeks to have the electronic bits done. I'm also going to change the transmission fluid, but I have to wait until Crappy Tire gets some more Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, they only had one bottle when I went in.On another note, I've had a bit of a rattle from the front passenger side for a while now, only when turning a corner and hitting some bumps. I read on here on another post about someone who also had an 06 Cabrio and the bolt on the top of the strut was loose. I took the front off and checked the nut, and it seemed tight enough. Had a look up underneath, and low-and-behold, I've got a broken spring.....Now I've gotta decide if I want to tackle the spring myself, pay the dealer to do it, or trust a local shop who's never touched a smart....Anyone know where I can get a good deal on a replacement spring? Anyone on here put lowering springs on and want to sell one?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fast eddy for the spring (flying tiger) was best for me- excellent service and price on used springs (I got two so they would be matched). As for the install I did it myself, I did have some difficulties with the first one never having replaced a spring on a car before. If you decide to do it yourself, make sure to have an impact wrench of some sort (it is needed to get the top nut off without having a clamp for the sahaft, I got an electric one (7 Amp) from Canadian tire and it di the job nicely. The top nut is what took me forever on the first one, but after that everything was easy until it came time to put the strut assembly back into the car, Evolution's instructions said to just loosely bolt the top nut and the just push the strut to compress it and get it in position on the hub, I don't know if I was doing something wrong but there was no way I could compress the strut by hand. What I wound up doing is loosely bolting the strut bracket back onto the hub to use as a guide (so the hub wouldn't pull away when I was compressing the strut) and then pruing on the strut to compress it wit a piece of 2X4 that I has cut at an angle to get it, there still wasn't enough lift, so I had to gently clamp vise grips onto the body of the strut above the bracket to stop it from sliding down (not too hard, just needs to keep it from sliding, not compress the housing at all, and I am sure there is a better way, but it was all I had that would work) and then pushing the 2X4 further in on the slope until I lifted the strut into place (thankfully there is a stub it goes onto before you bolt it in through the hub), those were really the only hard parts. you do need a u-joint for the impact wrench an extension for it and a 22mm socket for it, besides that regular tools (including a torque wrench) will do (oops you do need a set of e-torx sockets too if you don't already have them), and basically follow Evolutions instruction, but don't worry about the special clamp, the impact wrench will make it so you don't need it, and you may need to follow my method for reinstalling the strut (though I am sure there is a better way, or maybe it was just me...)With the spring replaced you will be amazed at how much better your car rides, I know I was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

Well, my problem still remains. I have a bit more information to add though. I thought before that it was linked to when I shifted, but it's not totally. It only happens when the engine is under higher load. Such as on a steep grade on the highway. If I'm travelling 100kmh, and shift to fifth and depress the pedal to beyond 3/4 it will give a quick shutter and loose power. Then it won't regain power until I shut the car off for 30 seconds and restart. Even if I remain in fifth (or fourth) and go up a steep grade it will still do it.Thought it might be a plugged fuel filter, so I replaced the water separator/fuel filter today, no change. Guess it's got to be a fuel pressure issue, or air pressure issue. Anyone have an ideas? I might have to make an appointment to run a scan on it, wish the damn thing would light the CEL, and let me scan it with my own tool...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like a waste gate issue, actually. Your car sounds like it is entering limp-home mode.

It will go over 3000 revs though when it happens, actually, if I'm trying to get up a steep grade, I'll probably have to drop to 4th or even 3rd with it revving 3500-4000. I can keep doing 100kmh on the highway on a level-grade in 5th, slight downhill in 6th. 30 seconds turned off is all it needs to work normally again.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

overboost gives no 'codes' but goes into 'limp' modeit disapears when restartedit returns at next overboost - ie - dependant on throttle positions and rpm and adnauseumgraphite-lube the actuator on the turbochargerto be 'sure' you will need to 'know' what codes are being issued, or 'not'

I have a generic scantool, but it didn't show anything (plus it pissed off my trust+ for a day). Do I need a ScanGauge, or a trip to the dealer to see the codes? I'm certainly willing the lube the wastegate actuator, it looks fairly easy to do and a lot cheaper then most other things it could be.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect the engine is getting into a limp mode due to over-boosting. Turbo waste gate is probably opening at a slightly too high boost pressure or waste gate has become stiff. First confirm that waste gate is free to move by turning arm using a suitable spanner. Apply a graphite type lube to moving and sliding parts as required. Reduce preload on actuator rod by moving the adjuster nuts to the right. Beware not to turn or apply too much torque to waste gate rod when adjusting or the waste gate actuator diaphragm may get damaged.

Posted Image

Max boost pressure is 1.2 bar or 2.2 bar absolute. Perhaps you can measure boost pressure using a gauge or via diagnostics.

Posted Image

Adjust in increments of 1/2 turns. Do test run after each adjustment. Turning nuts to the right reduces preload on waste gate arm and lowers pressure at which waste gate opens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TK, how difficult is it to get at the EGR bleed tube behind the turbine? It looks very hard to access. Is it easy enough to remove and reinstall the entire turbocharger in order to get at the two eTorx bolts?

Access not too bad.

Posted Image

Removing turbocharger from manifold in situ is not recommended. High risk of causing damage to turbine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect the engine is getting into a limp mode due to over-boosting. Turbo waste gate is probably opening at a slightly too high boost pressure or waste gate has become stiff. First confirm that waste gate is free to move by turning arm using a suitable spanner. Apply a graphite type lube to moving and sliding parts as required. Reduce preload on actuator rod by moving the adjuster nuts to the right. Beware not to turn or apply too much torque to waste gate rod when adjusting or the waste gate actuator diaphragm may get damaged.

Posted Image

Max boost pressure is 1.2 bar or 2.2 bar absolute. Perhaps you can measure boost pressure using a gauge or via diagnostics.

Posted Image

Adjust in increments of 1/2 turns. Do test run after each adjustment. Turning nuts to the right reduces preload on waste gate arm and lowers pressure at which waste gate opens.

Thanks tolsen, you are always a wealth of knowledge and I welcome your expertise. I'll give this a try next week.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So far so good! :lol:

Tonight I pulled the rear bumper off, and took a 15mm wrench to open the wastegate. It seemed a little stuck, not much, but it did move with a gritty sound. I bought a can of Jig-A-Loo at Canadian Tire this morning, and proceeded to lube up the moving bits. Moves much smoother now. Took a drive tonight to hill on the highway where it ALWAYS acts up, and had no problems. Tried a few other hills at a higher rate of speed in 5th as well, and no safe mode!

Thanks again tolsen!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What the...? Hey!!

SORRY! I totally missed credit where credit was due! You did bring up the point first!But, in all fairness, tolsen did post all kinds of pretty pictures!BTW, the car seems to be still working great. Now just got to get my damn H&R springs on before my front right spring gives out for good...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...