CCV - Anyone made a catch-can yet?...

[MikeT]

Excellent work!

I ran my first car to 247K km without any EGR issues at all and then some twit rear ended it into oblivion. the intercooler does get a tad oily but it seems not to have harmed either car. The differences must be down to driving conditions...

[tolsen]

I can tell you have a very steady hand by the quality of your TIG welds.

Taking longer to reach operating temperature is a common problem and unrelated to the mods completed. Our old friend the infamous thermostat is the culprit. I suggest you rig up a temperature sensor on surface of outlet hose from thermostat housing to radiator. Keep sensor in place by winding tape around hose. This hose (left tunnel pipe is flow to radiator) is easier to get to just in front of tunnel pipes below the car.I bet you will find the hose will heat up gradually therefore loosing valuable heat to radiator.

This subject is pretty well covered here on the forum.

[SmartFerrari]

Amazing workmanship.

I'm always surprised by how many people have persistent EGR problems. In my 180,000 km with my CDI, i never once had it go into "limp" mode, and only had the EGR cleaned out once during a service at Mercedes-Benz Oakville.

Maybe i was just lucky. Maybe my car was put together on the right day… who knows? But i only ever put premium diesel in it (Sunoco Gold or Shell V-Power), so maybe that has something to do with it?

Like I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, my daily commute is very short so that does factor into the problem. By the time I get to work, even in the summertime, I only have two bubbles lit on the gauge.

[SmartFerrari]

Excellent work!

I ran my first car to 247K km without any EGR issues at all and then some twit rear ended it into oblivion. the intercooler does get a tad oily but it seems not to have harmed either car. The differences must be down to driving conditions...

247K Km versus 56K Km... Shows you the difference between us! You're on the Island and I'm on the Mainland, temps/conditions are the same.

[SmartFerrari]

I can tell you have a very steady hand by the quality of your TIG welds.

Taking longer to reach operating temperature is a common problem and unrelated to the mods completed. Our old friend the infamous thermostat is the culprit. I suggest you rig up a temperature sensor on surface of outlet hose from thermostat housing to radiator. Keep sensor in place by winding tape around hose. This hose (left tunnel pipe is flow to radiator) is easier to get to just in front of tunnel pipes below the car.I bet you will find the hose will heat up gradually therefore loosing valuable heat to radiator.

This subject is pretty well covered here on the forum.

I'll look into that, thanks!

The welds aren't as good as I would normally do it, as I was rushing a bit to get the job done. Even then, inbetween fitting-up/tack welding in the car (very tight!!) I spent nearly 9 hours on the whole job (plus that re-work the next day). Good thing I'm not paying someone else to do the work!

[darren]

Like I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, my daily commute is very short so that does factor into the problem. By the time I get to work, even in the summertime, I only have two bubbles lit on the gauge.

Clearly, you need to drive the SH!T out of it more often!

As a Ferrari owner, you should be familiar with the Italian tune-up?

[felix]

Hello again everybody! After sadly losing my CDI years ago, I finally found another one.

I’m very impressed by the copper cyclone solution, but have neither the skills nor the tools to try something like that.

But I found this small and cheap (7 euro with shipping) oil/gas separator, which might fit. It’s from the Chinese car Chery E5 (or Vortex Estina FL-C).

Size is about 12,5 cm X 9 cm.

Just got it delivered and haven’t tried it yet.

[tolsen]

Good find.  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/OIL-AND-GAS-SEPARATOR-FOR-CHERY-E5-H3-X5-V5-VERY-QIYUN3-A5-ELARA-FORA-MVM530/727973_32325089952.html

 

Just ordered one for another Smart 450.

[tolsen]

There is not much space but I think the Chinese air oil separator will fit:

[tolsen]

My Chinese cyclone air oil separator arrived yesterday. Exactly same as the one Felix posted photo of on 6 Nov 16.

 

The cyclone is nicely made, but annoyingly the manufacturer has neglected to debur internal casting flash before bonding top half to bottom half by ultrasonic welding.  Removing the casting flash was easy using suitable long drills held by hand and a special home made chisel made out of Ø 1.6 mm TIG welding rod.  Bore of nozzle was rough, not perfectly round and also had casting flash.  It cleaned up weill with a sharp Ø 5 mm drill bit. 

 

Air oil separator is marked MANN+HUMMELS 39 310 70 869.  That is same number series as the MANN+HUMMEL ProVent range but I doubt this one is made by them.

 

Sizes:

Height 126 mm, width 92 mm, depth 42.5 mm.

Inlet barb  Ø18 mm, air outlet barb Ø 18 mm, oil outlet barb Ø 12 mm.  Nozzle size Ø 5 mm.

Largest inside diameter of cyclone estimated to 30 mm.

 

The Chinese cyclone air oil separator is nearly identical to the one I made out of copper pipe by metal spinning  Their dimensions are very similar.  Perhaps the Chinese have read this thread?

 

I shall soon bench test this one to see if it is worth its salt.

 

 

 

 

[felix]

Did you ever get around to benching the Chinese cyclone Tolsen? =)

Mine is still laying at the shelf. =(

[tolsen]

My home made air oil separator works too well so no need to change. My Chinese separator is therefore on a shelf like yours. 

[simon28]

I have read that post entirely but still have a dumb question.

Is the CCV need vaccum from the TIK to work properly?

I mean, if the tube from the crankcase just drop on the road and atmospher, will it work? I know is not eco-friendly but I asking simply for my personal knowledge

 

Thanks

[Willys]

5 hours ago, simon28 said:

I have read that post entirely but still have a dumb question.

Is the CCV need vaccum from the TIK to work properly?

I mean, if the tube from the crankcase just drop on the road and atmospher, will it work? I know is not eco-friendly but I asking simply for my personal knowledge

 

Thanks

While your engine is running simply undo the oil fill cap and see if it dances around or stays put or at worst flies away!   Downward strokes of the pistons make enough flow of air I was under the impression of to keep the CCV correct......add to that blow by from a worn out set of rings from warped cylinders etc and you should have more than enough to allow road weapage like you wish to do. You will also get a filthy back window and oil spray all over the rear of your car. You'll need to plug off your stock hose connection somehow  then allow all that nasty oil to drain down......not the best way IMHO, but to each their own.  
IF you take your valve cover off the engine and then split it apart you'll see the same build up of crud as you find inside the EGR like I did when I rebuilt my engine.  Gasoline works the best to clean the black crud over any shop chemicals.  
I personally wouldn't be just draining the oil onto the road just for the constant cleaning required let alone the cloud being sent to the vehicles behind you....if it's that bad...? I blew my high pressure fuel pump on a trip back to ottawa last summer and I fogged every car behind me for miles before I noticed it....that brand new red pick-up truck got soaked I bet, I now know why I didn't see him suddenly in my rear view....I'd have been seriously upset if my truck got coated in diesel, issues happen...I stopped as soon as i realized. Sat on the side of highway 7 for hours waiting for the flatdeck....lol.

 

I'm curious to hear if your oil fill cap will sit on the valve cover while the engine is running or not...?

Easiest way to determine the condition of a used diesel engine when shopping for a used vehicle.

[simon28]

Il y a 23 heures, Willys a dit :

While your engine is running simply undo the oil fill cap and see if it dances around or stays put or at worst flies away!   Downward strokes of the pistons make enough flow of air I was under the impression of to keep the CCV correct......add to that blow by from a worn out set of rings from warped cylinders etc and you should have more than enough to allow road weapage like you wish to do. You will also get a filthy back window and oil spray all over the rear of your car. You'll need to plug off your stock hose connection somehow  then allow all that nasty oil to drain down......not the best way IMHO, but to each their own.  
IF you take your valve cover off the engine and then split it apart you'll see the same build up of crud as you find inside the EGR like I did when I rebuilt my engine.  Gasoline works the best to clean the black crud over any shop chemicals.  
I personally wouldn't be just draining the oil onto the road just for the constant cleaning required let alone the cloud being sent to the vehicles behind you....if it's that bad...? I blew my high pressure fuel pump on a trip back to ottawa last summer and I fogged every car behind me for miles before I noticed it....that brand new red pick-up truck got soaked I bet, I now know why I didn't see him suddenly in my rear view....I'd have been seriously upset if my truck got coated in diesel, issues happen...I stopped as soon as i realized. Sat on the side of highway 7 for hours waiting for the flatdeck....lol.

 

I'm curious to hear if your oil fill cap will sit on the valve cover while the engine is running or not...?

Easiest way to determine the condition of a used diesel engine when shopping for a used vehicle.

 

Thanks for the reply.
I'll try to loosen the oil cap to see if it dance.
When i bought the car 1 year ago, I forgot to put the oil cap back. The engine cover was not installed and the carpet rolled behind the seat.... I rev the engine to see it moving (suspected bad engine mount)... You can imagine what happen... Oil all the way up to the roof...

I had to change the Oil cap because some oil is coming from the cap and drip on the engine. Maybe I have too much pressure in the crank case.

Is there a way I can fit a catch can (like this one https://www.amazon.ca/EVIL-ENERGY-Universal-Reservoir-Aluminum/dp/B07Z7VVKCS/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=oil+catch+can&qid=1605399495&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFHVTRDWDFCSFZGUkkmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAyMzYxMTIxUEU2V0pJT1VPOVNIJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3NzQ1OTQzMTFKMDNGWVZJR0VPJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==) from Amazon? 

 

Thanks again
Simon

Edited November 15, 2020 by simon28

[Willys]

I don't know about catch cans so to speak as I haven't needed one yet. Mine doesn't leak oil at that air intake pipe so I haven't had to research it yet officially ....Hmmm...?  Touch wood!

I don't know if I would choose one with an air breather or not as I see a few shown with one? It may allow some pressure out of the system maybe aleviating one part of your problem, if you have too much pressure after seeing if cap dances or flies off valve cover.  IF I had that much pressure I think I'd be searching for a fresher engine and installing it, that is if I had the funds to do so.  How do you know when your can is full or not? Does it also start to leak?  I don't know?   I'm curious, if you have this much internal pressure, can you even drain the catch cans into the dip stick pipe without it back feeding the catch can also?  Again I haven't looked deep enough into this situation to give a semi educated guess on how best to solve it.  Sorry.  But willing to try and trouble shoot if I can, if it helps.

 

[simon28]

Here is what it look like around the CCV to TIK

Today I had to redo the wire on spade connector on the starter. At the same time, I clean this mess and replace the TIK seal at the turbo. What you see on the picture is there since 2006 i think and I found oil into the TIK pipe.

I'll keep an eye on that pipe

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by simon28

[Willys]

I can't open the file for some reason, maybe too big?  I do not know?  OR maybe you haven't enough posts to be able to show pics..?   Again I don't know about the computer end of the site etc.  Sorry.

[simon28]

I have redid the post correctly. You should see the picture

 

[Willys]

Yes that is typical of many engines from what i have seen people's pics of the same area. Mine is clean on both my beater and good car. BUT the wreck I bought from Montreal with too many kms on it looked like this. It was worn completely out from what i could tell when I opened up a few things to see.  Not saying yours is but..? My good car's engine operated perfectly but had warped cylinders when I dismantled it's engine . I started simply looking at the oil chain for wear and ended up rebuilding the entire thing.  You could see light between the rings and the walls of the cylinders...very very bad. But it ran perfectly fine, no issues at all. No oil usage, no dirty pipes, nothing.

So my statement that you engine is worn out maybe is completely false perhaps...?   BUT a dancing oil fill cap they say is a good way to check for bad blow by.  I never knew this until I started researching Sprinter vans. Same engine design just bigger.

 

[simon28]

I’ll take a look at the dancing oil cap tomorrow morning and I’ll send you the video.

 

my engine is running perfectly fine. Great power (for a 800cc), I can climb long hill in 6th gear, gearbox working fine also.

the car only have 118 000 km. Hope I don’t have to change or rebuild the engine

 

thanks again

Simon

[Willys]

Have you taken EGR off and soaked it in gasoline  to get it clean? OR better yet remove it and install an emulator from Stickman007....excellent item, I have 2 and no problems at all. You can make up a piece of exhaust pipe and install it where the EGR goes and that gets rid of that. Then you can block off the exhaust heat pipe. Then you go after 4 feet of the heater hosing that is connected to the exhaust pipe  helping to reduce all the crap in the engine bay.  Really makes a difference imho.  But the emulator isn't cheap, reasonable for sure imho and very well made,  if money is an issue you can clean the EGR and rotate the canister if you like that method. Personally I like it all gone. To each their own.  Same goes for the valve cover cleaning and then the intake piping that is dirty. get it all cleaned up  inside and out and then see if it's not simply a build up issue not a pressure issue?  Just throwing things out there to think about...?  I'm well known to always go after far too much and usually replace things far sooner than most folks...lol.   To me it's a hobby not a daily driver so to speak. I have one what i call a beater which I paid almost nothing for, luckily it has not stopped yet in any serious manner. and i also have a good car which i am totally restoring, not needed just I like things like new. It's a hobby.

[simon28]

For years I always wanted a smart 450 diesel. I have found the one I got for 2000$ a year ago. It is my daily driver car.

I have a Jeep JK on 37in tire during the summer. My Jeep is stored during winter and I use the Smart.... make no sense for a lot of people...lol.

I bought the Smart as a winter beater but it turn out that I really like this little car. I love filling up with only 15$ (60$ for my Jeep) and it is fun to drive.

im the kind of guy also who is changing parts before they brake. I’m a maintenance freak.

Im in a learning process with this car. I’m reading a lot on this forum. I think I have read all the topics already..lol

regarding the EGR, an emulator was already installed when a bought the car. It think the emulator came from Poland.

 

My goal is to fix everything and making it drive perfectly before giving it to my daughter, she will turn 15 in January. So 2 more years before she can drive alone.

 

It seams to have more smart cdi owner in Ontario than Quebec. 
I would love to speak mechanical advice with Smart lover.

 

Thank you very much Willys to share your knowledge with me

 

(and sorry for my bad English  )

simon 

[Willys]

I'm glad to help if I can whenever.

As my name here implies.....I too have had Jeeps of all kinds since I was in my early 20's, I'm 62 now and only have the one left.  There is nothing wrong with maintenance freaks. We learned this from breaking down far in the bush in our Jeeps. You only do that once before learning the lesson.  Far cheaper to keep the vehicle up to good condition compared to always having to fight constant break downs or that tow charge.....etc etc.   That walk of shame is just that.....shameful walking along the side of the road waiting for help or walking to find help just to get home......My beater popped it's high pressure fuel pump last summer and left me sitting half way between Toronto and Ottawa....there isn't many places to find help along highway #7  I'll tell you, when you really need it!

[ZCMK123]

Hey all. I have been diving into adding some sort of catch can or cyclone air oil separator on my recently rebuilt 450 cdi. I was wondering what would be the downside of draining the oil into the turbo return oil line? Why run the return all the way across the engine to the dip stick tube? Is there something that I am missing?