kdubya Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 So this means my cylinder 2 is the best, and 3 is the worst. And 1 isn't all that great either. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANMAN Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 The star says values of +, -, 2.5 are normal. They suggest that you suggest the highest + injector to the lowest - , and then recheck values. So swap injectors from 2&3 and retest. I'll give it a go. No, swap injectors 1&3, the timing is sensed on cylinder 1, which is your low reading cylinder. Canman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I tried another test to get a better baseline. I'll swap the injectors when I have time, maybe today or tomorrow, and try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 K, so I swapped injectors 1 & 2 and this is what happened: This kind of says to me that its an injector problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANMAN Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Did swapping the injectors make a difference with your starting problem? I forgot to mention you should use new fire seals, (the copper washers). A good way to check if the fire seals are leaking is to squirt soapy water around the seals while someone is cranking the engine and look for bubbles. Check all 3 cylinders for bubbles. Canman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I have new fire seals, I just didn't want to use them unless I saw bubbles. They are all good. The starting problem is no different. I may swap injectors from my parts car and see......Like I said, mine were "new" last spring. (remans from UK) doesn't mean they aren't the problem. I'll just be sorely disappointed that I spent $1000 to try to fix my problem, only to get injectors that were in the same shape as mine!! But I'd just like to eliminate them as the problem before I rebuild the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayukawa Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Have you at any time measured the compression with a gauge? If you really want to diagnose this by swapping injectors, I would stick with the same set and return them back to the original position and see if you can replicate your first set of measurements. You essentially are trying to validate your theory (hope) that this is an injector problem. The first thing you need to do is make sure that your test procedure can be replicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Turn by hand to confirm alterator is not seized. Confirm electric feed pump runs whenever you switch on ignition. Spray a few bursts of WD40 or similar penetration oil into inlet manifold. The purpose of this is to restore cylinder compression. Engine may fail to synchronise if compression is low. I would like to turn mine by "hand", but there is not enough place to put the box in place, the frame is on the way, https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Y9TLMI7E-v03Xw24ithH9mNO_GuN66y65qjoFOfq5j4=w538-h955-no Edited June 24, 2015 by David_18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Turn crank shaft pulley on its E bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) The belt slip on the alternator pulley when the starter turn. I think i will have the same result by hand. :S I will try to find a "slim" socket or something like that : http://toolmonger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/Bent%20Wrenches.jpg Edited June 24, 2015 by David_18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayukawa Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Belt slipping on the alternator pulley is not a good sign. Either the belt is very loose _or_ you have a seized alternator (stator to rotor). The latter could be the source of your starting problem. From the looks of your car (rust and corrosion), this increases the probability that you have this problem as well. Do a google on "smart car seized alternator". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Tension seems normal. The car is ouside since December. It run for the last time somewhere in May... I will try to loose the alternator adjustment nut to lower it a bit, maybe i will be able to put my socket in place. Edited June 24, 2015 by David_18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayukawa Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 I think I put one of my short old imperial sockets on the big nut and grabbed it with a pair of vice grips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I can fit a socket and extension on my alternator nut. Rear end must be on axle stands. Engine will then sit lower and alternator nut will be clear off subframe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 What I just posted is not entirely right. Need to double check and will revert. Socket and extension do fit but I can't remember the finer details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I will try with the jack under the axle and see what is the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Have just checked. A 24 mm ring spanner fits easily over alternator nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) 24 is to big on mine, 22mm look to be the good size :S Edited June 25, 2015 by David_18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I manage to "unseized" my alternator with a small ratchet. The engine run for 30 seconds and stall, and don't want to run anymore... I am close to throw it out of the 10 feet concret wall next to the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmoonen Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Make sure you have fire insurance and burn the sucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANMAN Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The alternator probably seized again. You can run the engine for a short time without the belt on the alternator/water pump, no more then 1 or 2 minutes for troubleshooting. Remove the belt, run engine to confirm the alternator is the problem again then go buy a new alternator. Canman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I will try without the belt this weekend. The problem is not to buy the alternator but install it ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Seized alternators can be easily made to turn freely. Just keep working it and wet the iron internals in wicking oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayukawa Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 I replaced my alternator without disconnecting the X-brace. I believe I ended up taking the bolt out of the engine mount though. I don't have A/C option. Very tight to get out and in. Plus getting the fixings bolt back in was especially painful, if I recall correctly. But very doable in the driveway. The sequence to do the changes (different methods) are well documented on the web. I did the replacement since the belt squealing was getting unbearable (worn pulley problem). I now have a functional spare (but still with worn pulley ... still looking to source replacement. Apparently some Ford 5 groove pulley that can be modified to fit.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofdiesel Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I would be inclined to go through the wiring harness of these cars that refuse to start, pull it off the car (the engine one) and look for chaffed wires, green wires, poor connectors...I took one car apart with 134k and found all sorts of evil stuff in the harness, places where the wiring had been probed and left to rot, areas with the wires worn through from the tubing or rubbing on stuff. Then tape the whole harness up with hockey tape or similar (works well, long lasting, more flexible then electrical tape) and reinstall. Treat all connectors with a rust remove like Rostoff from Wurth (it really eats the corrosion and leaves shiny metal) then dielectric grease, make sure each item clips securely in place if not replace the connector housing (essential). Look carefully at the sam connectors, for signs of heat and again corrosion. Add the fuel pump relay fix. Communication could also be a problem between modules on the canbus, VW's are famous for that one if the cluster isn;t found no starting (just turns over), a bad power relay causes it. Then start to worry about mechanical problems, do the stuff that does not require parts first... Battery health is a huge problem on these cars, once the battery drops below a certain threshold it will still crank but not necessarily have enough voltage for everything else. Most modern cars are getting 5 years from a battery, that's it. The dealer testing reveals the truth (they all have a midtronics battery tester). On another note, the fuel injectors. I have heard of several now with issues. I am not aware of Bosch offering any parts for them, so how can an outfit offer rebuilt injectors? Copies from India or China? Or are these outfits just cleaning and testing them and claiming rebuilt? Were they Bosch service centers using proprietary parts (which may exist or not)? I have a set out to a rebuilder in Toronto, he has a machine on the way for testing these newer style injectors, but again no parts available, just able to test them. Waiting to hear back. Compression, you can get the tester from Princess Auto or Harbor Freight, tester mounts with the glow plug threads. Cranking speed is very important, the results are revealing in the differences between cylinders not so much the number itself (as each gage has a different number, good ones are very expensive and accurate, cheap ones not so much but still give a clear result cylinder to cylinder-case in point I used a Harbor Freight one on a Mercedes diesel, came back with 150psi on all cylinders yet the engine starts and runs smooth, they should not start below 300psi! So I know the gage does not read high enough). At least these cheap kits have all the fittings and one can buy a good gage alone to add. Antitheft-this has not been discussed much but on most systems the engine will crank, either not start or fire and quit right away depending on brand. I doubt this is the problem as it usually prevents cranking on the smart (key symbol on dash). Crank sensor-correct resistance is key as one member found out after replacing it and still a problem, it was a bad sensor reading from new. Yes, a hard part to reach but key to the car starting. Mechanical issues, fuel injectors as discussed (swapping could really track things down), timing chain, alternator, valve lifters all could contribute, worn guides or rings. But my thinking is electrical as the cars usually run otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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