David_18 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) I would love to do all that, but i don t have a garage to put the car for a long period. I bought a new car this winter, and i just want to get it run again and sell it quick. The wires look ok in the engine compartment. I never had problem at the front with wires. I also have an external relay for the fuel pump. After my alternator was unseized, the car run for 30 second and stall. This is very strange. Edited June 26, 2015 by David_18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayukawa Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 If that is the case I would: 1) get a can of Rust Check or whatever from Canadian Tire. Spray it on the alternator and move it manually to loosen it up. 2) charge up your battery with an external charger or boost it from a known good and charged battery. 3) make sure that the belt is tight (you loosened it in step 1). 4) turn off the fan and all the other electrics. If you are fortunate, it may start. There is a timer that cuts out all electrical load for about 30 seconds. You can definitely hear it kick in. Not sure if related to temperature but it doesn't seem to be. Perhaps if it gets a 'low voltage' signal, it shuts things down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 If that is the case I would: 1) get a can of Rust Check or whatever from Canadian Tire. Spray it on the alternator and move it manually to loosen it up. 2) charge up your battery with an external charger or boost it from a known good and charged battery. 3) make sure that the belt is tight (you loosened it in step 1). 4) turn off the fan and all the other electrics. If you are fortunate, it may start. There is a timer that cuts out all electrical load for about 30 seconds. You can definitely hear it kick in. Not sure if related to temperature but it doesn't seem to be. Perhaps if it gets a 'low voltage' signal, it shuts things down. Mmm, It's very similar to what I experienced! I have a "need" battery from 2 years ago. An Optima RedTop. Also plug with an external charger. Thank for the info, i will add this to my list ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) Alternator belt is now remove, but no change, still crank without any fire. While checking around the engine, i notice a green plug, near to the water pump, that is not connect... I don't see any where it could go. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RieoNZJzzJn1AQCI2ywmdsKTm3YeMkEfkftRJbMomkc=w1698-h955-no Edited June 27, 2015 by David_18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Green plug is for aircon clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayukawa Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) BTW, I had a very similar experience trying to get my Smart Car to start after some repair work. It started, ran for a bit and then died. Would not start. I ended up testing a bunch of theories and learning about some of the inner workings of the system. Documented this on a wiki page on this site. In the end, the "WD40 into the intake hose" (in my case I used some penetrating spray) seemed to trigger the start. Suggested by Tolsen. Related to the virtual crankshaft sensor system. I'd give it a try. I was NOT a believer, but it did seem to work. Warning: Disconnecting the rubber hose to the intake manifold is tight and challenging the first time you do it. The hose will likely be stuck to the aluminum fitting and needs some gentle persuasion. You can get at the gear clamp but you will have to lever it off with some screwdrivers or something. No space for your hands. The other end closer to the air box is much easier. Do it first. Don't overstress the fuel lines that get in the way. Edited June 28, 2015 by ayukawa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Not better with WD40 or penetrating spray. To me it sound like no fuel is injected https://goo.gl/photos/fW59YyA3KcWd7k2bA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayukawa Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 I agree. Doesn't sound like it is firing/injecting. Have you confirmed that you have fuel pressure in the common rail? Just crack one of the fittings, ideally using a flare nut wrench. Takes a bunch of possibilities out of the equation. As I mentioned, I was in a seemingly similar situation as you. After a bunch of messing around, including going down the path of bleeding out the fuel delivery pipes (this is from my historic diesel experience with old school diesel injection), it just started to fire. What I was next going to try was putting 1 tsp or so of diesel or light oil down the injector hole of #1 (the cylinder apparently that is critical for this damn virtual crankshaft timing system). But never had to go this far. Maybe worth a shot. Be very careful not to put too much down there (hydroloc the engine). Rough calculation for absolute max (in cc or ml): 800 cc displacement, 3 cylinders, 20:1 compression ratio 800/3/20=13cc . 1 tsp is 5ml. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I think i have pressure in the rail, the fuel came out when i unscrew one of the fuel line to injector. With an OBDII tool, i can see that i have pressure too. I will maybe try with a bit of fuel directly in the cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) I tried with diesel directly into the cylinders. It kind of start but as soon as the stater stop it dies. After, i try it with the injectors unplug to see if it sound different and it sound exactly the same... I feel like the injectors doesn't do there job now.. Edited July 3, 2015 by David_18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I try couple time to start it. One time the engine start (barely) and run for around 30 seconds and stall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmoonen Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Sounds like fueling IMO. When you swapped the injectors around did you replace all the seals and torque it down properly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Yes, sound like no fuel is going in the cylinder.. When i put some diesel directly in the cylindre, i seem to want start but it died when the starter stop. When i remove my injectors fews months ago, i change the seals too. At this time, the engine start and run "fine". I don't have the torque spec, but i think it is tight enough. Edited July 8, 2015 by David_18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmoonen Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 7nm+180 degrees is the proper torque spec for bolting it down and seating the copper crush seal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Soap test for injector seal leaks whilst cranking. Try to complete compression tests at the earliest opportunity. If compression is ok we can then rule that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayukawa Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I was stuck in a similar situation for a day or two. Car would crank but not even try to start. Just spin and spin. I had not removed the injectors so I didn't have to worry about that part. I tried with very limited success to see if the injectors were being pulsed. You would think that measuring a 70V pulse would be easy (piezo-electric?) The closest I got to a signal was putting an old school multimeter on the connector. I got the needle to wiggle when cranking at about the correct period. I suspect they really should be tested when connected (i.e. under electrical load). If you don't have a signal to the injectors ... you then need to work through all the prerequisites: 1) crank sensor (very inaccessible; never checked mine) 2) virtual camshaft sensor (reason for doing the spray into the intake manifold) 3) fuel pressure (?) - I went as far as checking the signal at the fuel pressure sensor on the rail (far end from pump). You would have to have very shitty compression on all 3 cylinders to not have the engine sound like it is trying to start. Too much electrical junk in these modern diesels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I have already check for leak with soap, i don't see bubbles. Compression test, my gauge doesn't work, probably leak on the quick connect plug.. 1) I tried to remove it this winter, can't remove the bolt, not enough space and i am scare to break it. But i have a RPM reading when it crank. 2) I tried with penetrating oil and WD-40, don't work. I will try with brake cleaner. 3) I have a good reading of fuel pressure in the commun rail. I will try with a multimeter if i can see something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Am I the only one that can measure compression on these engines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmoonen Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofdiesel Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Injectors? I had a parts car that would not start, I sent the injectors out for testing a place in Toronto just got the proper machine for testing common rail ones, turns out they were only delivering 50% of the requested fuel-most likely not enough to start cold, but fine hot. They cannot be rebuilt in North America, rebuilds are available for huge money ($599 each). You have to look in Europe if they are the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Update !! https://goo.gl/photos/MSRxjedFxquSfBJE6 I don't know exactly why, but since 2-3 months, i had the stock remap on it, and since then it look worst than before (for hard starting on "cold"). Today, i reinstall the remap i had for couple of years, and the engine finaly start after 3-4 try !!! Don't ask me why .... !! So, the car go up for sale and hope to sell it quick.... Edited July 14, 2015 by David_18 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmoonen Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Didnt like being stock lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Does engine now start each time instantly as it should? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_18 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) I tried fews time this morning and yes. I still have the hard starting when the engine is cold. Edited July 14, 2015 by David_18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsen Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 In that case it is very likely your injectors are the culprits. A slightly higher rail pressure with remap may be the difference between start and no start. Injectors are expensive to renew but cheap to test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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