Ontario Digs Deeper

[SmartED]

Apparently the government is going to use more of our taxpayer dollars and enhance the electric vehicle rebates even more. The Star has a report today of the leaked document, but the roll out by the Liberals will be tomorrow. If this keeps up eventually our EV's might be, as they say in Mexico, "Almost Free"

[GMoney]

I wish they'd had the Cash For Clunkers plan in place when I got my Smart. And sidestepping the PST component of the HST would be so welcome.

[YUGreen]

I'm curious how the "free overnight home charging" will work. Through local power companies, based on night usage? Or a simple tax credit?

[darren]

Considering the province is already likely selling surplus power to neighbouring states at a loss during off-peak times, I would imagine it's likely going to be a tax credit. Actually metering the specific usage reliably would be an expensive exercise. I know Oakville Hydro is doing a pilot project with "connected" EVSEs, but that requires extra outlay of cash to participate.

[smart142]

Ontario Climate change action plan has big incentives for e-cars

Kingston, ON, Canada / CKWS TV

CKWS Newswatch

June 08, 2016

The province is also making a big push to get people into electric cars. Newswatch’s Paul Soucy finds out what it’s like to own an electric vehicle.

Electric cars are becoming more and more common on the roads. Most vehicle manufacturers have their own hybrid or fully electric vehicle. Dealerships, like this one in Gananoque, which sells the Chevy Volt, say they don’t sit on the lot for very long.

Doug Lloyd/Gan Chev:
“The demand was pretty hot, right off the bat – currently we have three that are building and are sold orders.”

And if the Ontario Liberals have their way…..every new home in the province will be built to charge electric vehicles.

Spencer Bardell:
“It’s going mainstream, everybody is realising that they’re just perfect.”

Spencer Bardell has been driving this Electric Smart Car for about a year and a half – he says he spends just 180 dollars a year on electricity to power his vehicle, which he drives everyday. He thinks electric cars are the way of the future.

Spencer Bardell:
“At the turn of the century there were more electric cars in Manhattan than there were gas cars. Currently there are more electric chargers than there are gas stations in Manhattan, New York.”

Paul Soucy:
“This is a Tesla electric car charging station found near the 401 in Kingston – many others just like it are found all along the 401 throughout Ontario, showing just how popular electric vehicles have become.”

Bob Bell stopped in Kingston on his way to Port Hope from Brockville to charge his Tesla car, which he’s owned for about a year. He says it was the best decision he’s ever made.

Bob Bell:
“Well I used to spend about 70 dollars a week prior to this car. So you do the math – that’s about 3000 dollars a year.”

To get more drivers behind the wheel of electric vehicles Ontario’s new Climate Change Action plan includes incentives. Rebates of up to 14-thousand dollars for those looking to purchase electric vehicles – and a rebate of a thousand dollars for the installation of a home charging station.

Paul Soucy CKWS Newswatch Kingston.

http://www.ckwstv.com/2016/06/08/ontario-climate-change-action-plan-has-big-incentives-for-e-cars/ with video

[steveyfrac]

The new rebates might push me into a new Volt next year, or a new Smart ED, if one comes out with ~200 km range.

[darren]

The Volt and Bolt are going to be extremely compelling with the new rebates.

[steveyfrac]

I test drove the Volt last week. It's substantially faster off the line than our Smarts are, and I'd say our smarts are quite good. But the new Volt will actually hold my old Camaro to 30 MPH. Now, granted, at that point, the Camaro will promptly, and firmly put it in its dust to 60 MPH, but it'll actually hold it to 30 MPH.

It's quite. It's smooth, it'll be pretty much all electric, all the time for me, and I don't have to worry about long trips....

I actually think the Volt is the better choice over the Bolt at this point. And the interior is just stellar.

However, if they launch a new, cheaper 200 km range Smart Electric, that'll get serious consideration. I'd totally be willing to pay $32k - $34k for such a beast. But at $38k, I'd have to take the Volt every time.

[darren]

Agreed. Being that i'm transitioning to being a one-car household, having a range extender is going to be more important for me going forward.

[smartdriver]

Some time ago, when the smart EV first arrived, I did a calculation about driving cost if it became necessary to use a gasoline powered generator to recharge the car.

I was surprised to find that it came out to be about 25 miles per gallon of gasoline used, not much different than an internal combustion car.

This seemed like a viable emergency solution to me and I was wondering if any smart owner had implemented this solution, perhaps even as a range extender.

[darren]

Charging while driving would require some software hacking (or other such trickery) as the car will not let you drive off with the charge cable connected.

Did your calculations include the loss of electric efficiency due to the added weight (and aerodynamic drag) of the generator, fuel, and trailer?

[smartdriver]

Charging while driving would require some software hacking (or other such trickery) as the car will not let you drive off with the charge cable connected.

Did your calculations include the loss of electric efficiency due to the added weight (and aerodynamic drag) of the generator, fuel, and trailer?

I was primarily concerned about using it staticly for emergency recharging, not as a dynamic range extender.

Regardless, the extra weight would be minimal. Suitable generators are available at Canada Tire for a few hundred dollars. A 1 KW generator would be sufficient and equivalent to the L1 charger on low charge rate.

Figures that I saw for a Honda 3300W generator running at half load which is roughly equivalent to the L1 charger at its 12 A rate, indicated that it used 0.46 U.S, gallons per hour.

A fully discharged 18KwH smart battery would take 11 hours to charge, using 5 gallons.

Assuming a 160 km or 100 mile range, that equals 20 miles per U.S gallon or 25 miles per imperial gallon or 12 litres/100km.

Edited June 14, 2016 by smartdriver

[steveyfrac]

Charging while driving would require some software hacking (or other such trickery) as the car will not let you drive off with the charge cable connected.

Did your calculations include the loss of electric efficiency due to the added weight (and aerodynamic drag) of the generator, fuel, and trailer?

I was primarily concerned about using it staticly in emergencies, not as a dynamic range extender.

Regardless, the extra weight would be minimal. Suitable generators are available at Canada Tire for a few hundred dollars. Diesel generators were more efficient.

You would need to carry a large mallet and a copper grounding rod as well. You cannot charge any EV with a normal generator, unless you properly ground it. I tried it, just to be sure.

The car checks the ground, by intentionally leaking current to ground, and making sure that the ground voltage doesn't change. A little generator wont (and can't) pass this test. So, you'll plug it in, and the car will refuse to charge unless you pound a grounding rod into the ground, and wire it up correctly to your generator.

[smartdriver]

Clever! Even more clever is how you figured this out.

I am having difficulty understanding how a car on 4 rubber tires can leak current to ground, however.

When connected to a normally grounded 3 wire electrical cable that has a ground wire I can understand, but wouldn't the same situation be created by using a 3 wire connection to your generator with the unused ground wire connected to the correct side of one of the live wires?

Does this also mean that a 2 wire 110 V wall socket (extension cord) without a third ground connection won't work? Although one of the live wires is supposed to be at ground potential, this is not necessarily always so.

Edited June 14, 2016 by smartdriver

[steveyfrac]

This is all documented as a part of the SAE standard for the charging protocol, Not my own tinkering.

I did verify that you can't charge the car straight off a bog standard genny though.

[smartdriver]

Thanks for your input.

It makes sense from a safety aspect as it would be undesirable to have the chassis of the car 1,000 Volts above ground.

This had piqued my curiosity enough to further investigate.

[MikeT]

12 L/100 km is brutal...even my massive Mercedes B 200 uses only 7.4 L/100.

[smartdriver]

This is an older thread. I am presenting it and referring to the video link below to correct some of the misinformation in this thread that was presented in response to my question about using a gasoline generator as an emergency generator for charging.

 

"You would need to carry a large mallet and a copper grounding rod as well. You cannot charge any EV with a normal generator, unless you properly ground it. I tried it, just to be sure.

The car checks the ground, by intentionally leaking current to ground, and making sure that the ground voltage doesn't change. A little generator wont (and can't) pass this test. So, you'll plug it in, and the car will refuse to charge unless you pound a grounding rod into the ground, and wire it up correctly to your generator."

 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by smartdriver

[smartdriver]

On 6/14/2016 at 9:14 AM, steveyfrac said:

You would need to carry a large mallet and a copper grounding rod as well. You cannot charge any EV with a normal generator, unless you properly ground it. I tried it, just to be sure.

The car checks the ground, by intentionally leaking current to ground, and making sure that the ground voltage doesn't change. A little generator wont (and can't) pass this test. So, you'll plug it in, and the car will refuse to charge unless you pound a grounding rod into the ground, and wire it up correctly to your generator.

 

[steveyfrac]

My missive was not misinformation.  The J1772 specification requires a grounding test that a standalone, ungrounded generator cannot pass.  I have not yet looked at your video, as I'm out and about today, but either the Tesla is not standards compliant, some other action has been taken to bypass this safety mechanism.

 

Try plugging your Smart ForTwo into a generator directly.  It won't work.  My Bolt won't either.  They both fail with an improper ground error.

[smartdriver]

But my point was that this error can be overridden by simply connecting the generator neutral to generator ground (chassis) which some do with an external adapter or as in the case of the Generac generator seen in the video, there is a switch to make this connection.

Edited October 1, 2017 by smartdriver

[steveyfrac]

You should only be throwing the switch on the Generac is you've properly grounded it first.  Check the manual.

 

Adapters that connect ground and neutral aren't standards compliant, so you'll be making them yourself.  Generators are supposed to be floating ground, unless correctly grounded.

 

Please consult an electrician before you go playing with these things.  You could easily damage your car, or hurt yourself.

[smartdriver]

13 minutes ago, steveyfrac said:

You should only be throwing the switch on the Generac is you've properly grounded it first.  Check the manual.

 

Isn't this requirement only necessary when the generator is used permanently connected and used as a backup in home systems so that ground faults are properly detected?

Edited October 1, 2017 by smartdriver

[steveyfrac]

The J1772 standard is designed so that you could safely plug your car in underwater.  It might not charge, bit you won't get a shock.

 

What you are suggesting is a way to bypass part of the safety protocols.  That is an idea that I find immoral rather than ingenious.

 

If you really need to use as backup generator, it'll likely be at your home, so why not properly ground your generator, and have it validly pass the test?

[smartdriver]

3 minutes ago, steveyfrac said:

That is an idea that I find immoral rather than ingenious.

 

If you really need to use as backup generator, it'll likely be at your home, so why not properly ground your generator, and have it validly pass the test?

Because it would be a simple solution if there were ever a possibility of being stranded. The cost of a small portable generator is likely close to the cost of a tow.

 

If you check the Leaf and I-miEV forums, there are a number of large technical threads on the subject of using portable gasoline generators as chargers.

 

There appear to be a lot of immoral electric car drivers out there.