New Owner/member seeking smart car enlightenment

[Toxophilite]

Hello

I'm new here

I've just acquired a 2005 fortwo diesel soft top in frightening lime green and grey, Cool little vehicle.

 

My father acquired it from a neighbour, it had sat for a while...he let it sit for another while ( year or two)did some minor repairs, (he's a mechanical engineer and very capable) drove it for a bit but grew frustrated with it's particulars. He prefers his older toyota as it's more his thing.

 

So I drove it for the first time yesterday. It is different but seems to work and is pretty neat actually. I'm happy with any vehicle that goes and stops . good mileage is a bonus too. Yesterday I fit 6 full size guitar cases and a space echo in it for a brief move..pretty impressive...I wouldn't do it on a regular basis though.

 

i have a few questions:

 

-It seems to require a bit of a lead foot on the throttle. meaning it needs to be depressed a fair ways before it starts moving. I've had and ,repaired and maintained a bunch of older mercedes diesel 300Ds etc. I like diesels alot and realize they often aren't as zippy. I don't care about zip, I was wondering if this was normal for this vehicle or is there something amiss.

 

- It seems a pretty loud on the drivers side rear -  I know diesels are usually louder with the diesel 'purr'. I like the sound of them, but this seems a bit too loud. Are these considered to be loudish. basically, should I be looking for a problem or not worry?

 

- Mostly it's been good to drive, maybe a little less than smooth but am getting use to it's shifting system. I'm good with manual or auto so a new system isn't a big deal.

The 3rd time I drove it though I experienced a loss of power briefly. leaving a  stop sign I tried to accelerate but almost nothing happened even when I had the pedal to the floor, this continued through 2nd gear but didn't happen again (i was taking my girlfriend for a short drive...we were enjoying the enclosed scooter/go-cart feel of the car.)

 

- Also should the radio be displaying "safe' prior to entering the code?

 

- The engine light is on.

 

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[MikeT]

They do need a good stab on the accelerator to go....

 

When the mechanical gremlins you describe are sorted, consider a remap for more snap.  Adds 20 easy HP (50% increase).

 

For diagnostics, check the codes through the OBDII plug - some auto parts shops let you do this for free.  Better still, buy a ScanGauge with a non-CAN cable.

 

The passenger seatback flips forward to maximize loading space - two levers need to be pulled up and down she goes.

 

As for noise, the soft tops are quieter inside than the glass roofed ones.  What do you mean about the driver's side being loud?

[Toxophilite]

Hi. Thanks for the reply!

I had the seat flipped down for the 6 guitar caper..these are big old archtop guitars!

 

I'm hearing the engine or the engine exhaust pretty loudly from the rear of the car mostly on the drivers side. My girlfriend a former air cadet said it sounded like a propeller.. It sounds like loud diesel to me but pretty loud, Louder with the windows open.

 

What is a 'remap' ?

I'm completely ignorant about these cars except for basic function. just finished the owners manual...much like most owners manuals...but some good information. I wish I had a service manual!

[Toxophilite]

I would say the noise it makes is a loud put put noise.

However!

Today on a short jaunt to the store it did the loss of power thing quite dramatically, several times. It wasn't the clutch as the engine didn't rev high it just didn't have any power and thus barely moved. Like someone weak was pushing me. I checked the oil, it's pretty black and it seems to be WAAAY to full, maybe 2 inches past maximum, I tested it a few times to be sure, wiping it afterwards, I'll check it again in an hour or so to let it settle. the oil is black and should probably be changed but not milky happily.  This power loss thing makes the car unusable basically. It wouldn't go up the slightest of hills without a run. Happily I haven't bought it or anything I'm just borrowing it with a possibility of ownership. I like the idea of the car and being mechanically inclined would like to get it sorted if possible.

[Willys]

Welcome to the site, by the way the best site I have found for actual people talking and helping you with your car.  For a totally technical or manual type site go to evilution.uk.co  I think it is....it's the closest thing we will get to a manual I'm afraid.

As far as i have seen in the short time I have owned mine, since the spring, all the exhausts split along the bottom edge seam and the sound escapes there. I have seen one a few days ago, that someone had installed a glasspac type muffler and that was much louder than stock but OK. Not anoying just louder. Look under it and see if it's a stock seamed muffler or a round solid muffler.  As for the time lag off the mark, get used to it is all I can say...lol.   I haven't found a way to get rid of that yet!  It's my only complaint with these cars so far.
 

[Willys]

The scanguage MikeT was speaking of isn't a cheap item to buy if you weren't thinking of owning this car for a while. BUT, it will help diagose many things as well as read all the codes etc. IF your intercooler is rubbed through it will show a loss in boost etc, so I have been told. Ebay has them for $169.  roughly  scangaugeII

I bought one  and use it more to see how little my fuel consumption is...lol...my favorite thing about it. Average litres per hundred kilometers driven....easily 3.5 but i live in a flatish area.

 

Check the dash lights for what they call the 3 bars of death, I haven't seen it yet thankfully, maybe it's there and you don't see it? It is when the car goes into limp mode I think, I could be wrong?

 

[Toxophilite]

It definitely has something amiss. almost NO power now.

I was looking into the wastegate issue that seems to crop up when I do a search online.

 

My father seemed to think you need special tools to change the oil. is that so or is it just a remove the plug and drain as one normally does? (then the filter too of course.)

[Willys]

No changing the oil is a suction thing a ma gig...operation unless someone has already changed the sump to one with a drain plug!  The electric 12 volt pumps are cheap and work well with luke warm oil, still able to touch it in other words. Don't work worth a pinch of...well you know the rest, on cool oil!  IMHO, if you plan on keeping it, you can buy a normal drain plugged pan, on my list to do!  I'm now sick and tired of the oil pump.
What codes are being thrown out, do you know?

 

[Leadwing]

1 hour ago, Toxophilite said:

- Also should the radio be displaying "safe' prior to entering the code?

- The engine light is on.

I checked the oil, it's pretty black and it seems to be WAAAY to full, maybe 2 inches past maximum, I tested it a few times to be sure, wiping it afterwards, I'll check it again in an hour or so to let it settle. the oil is black and should probably be changed

 

Welcome to the club!

 

The radio is in "safe" mode to prevent thieves from stealing it and using it without the code to reset it.  It (Safe mode) will also show if the battery has gone completely dead or has been unhooked for some reason.  The code should be with the owner's manual and other paperwork.

Engine light on...... A code reader is useful to determine the issue.  The check engine light comes on for many reasons.  Most are not serious.  (Oxygen sensors and the like)  Best to get it checked out anyway

Even after a fresh oil change, the oil can go black quickly on a diesel.  This is normal.

If the oil LEVEL is about 2" above the maximum mark. DON'T DRIVE IT ... Drain some off.  The ideal level is about 2/3rds up from the minimum mark between the minimum and maximum marks. 

There is a service indicator on your dash. Press the button on the left side of the instrument panel twice quickly. (see photo below) When you see it, there should be a number on it telling you how many kms. left before the next oil change is due.  If is doing a countdown of numbers (29, 28, 27 etc) it is telling you how many days left until the oil change is due.  If there is a negative number showing, the oil change is past due.

[Nigel]

No Drain plug from factory.  You can buy an oil extractor either vacuum or electric and suck the oil through out through the dipstick tube just like the dealer, works good for the lawn mower as well.  You need to retrieve the codes but I would start by working the wastegate back and forth with some channel locks or vice grips to make sure it is nice and free since the car had been sitting.  Might just fix your limp mode issue.   Also welcome to the club.

 

Nigel

[Toxophilite]

Can't find my torque bits so I might have to go buy some. I'd rather be able to get at the back of the engine a little easier for the wastegate fun. Need to buy some penetrating oil too

 

Do people use manual units for oil removal. ala lawnmowers etc

Like this one:

 

https://www.princessauto.com/en/search?Dy=1&Nty=1&Ntt=oil+extractor

or this one with the proper size hose on it

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/brass-oil-transfer-pump-0792462p.html#spc

 

[Willys]

Do yourself a favor and get the 12 volt version, it should have the thin tube to get down the oil dip stick tube....they are less than $40...yes more money but work well.  OR you can wait and buy a new oil pan from europe I think. You can drain some oil out by losening the oil filter etc....

 

This the one I bought....

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Extractor-Scavenge-Exchange-Transfer-Motorbike/dp/B0157LOM46/ref=sr_1_7_sspa?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1534638213&sr=1-7-spons&keywords=120+volt+oil+pump&psc=1

 

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Willys

[Nigel]

Toxophilite

The two pumps you listed are too small.  You are going to pull out about three litres so buy a larger capacity or go electric as Willys suggests.  Actually the electric unit is most likely the least expensive way to go.

 

Nigel

[MikeT]

If you want an honest opinion on the purchase-worthiness of this car, take it to Eddy Lai on the Westminster Highway in Richmond, Flying Tiger Developments.  He should be able to figure out what it needs, and what it'll cost.  He also does the remaps (basically allows more fuel to be injected, this car is strangled when stock).  Remaps are $300-400 depending on whether he's having a sale or not.  The exhaust likely has a hole along the bottom seam - check for soot at places other than the tailpipe.

 

The driveability problem sounds very severe, so get it checked out by Eddy before going any further.

[Toxophilite]

Today I picked up the little manual pump from Princess auto. It was on sale for 9.99 so I couldn't resist. At this point I'm only removing enough oil so the car isn't overfull. It did the trick , not the fastest thing in the world but definitety workable. I got it down to max full, which I hear is still a little too full but I figured better than waaay overfull) . I also took off the back panel and check the wastegate, not having a coach on hand I'm not sure exactly how easily it should move. I grasped the rod with vise grips and tried to move it in and out (with the vise grips at right angles to the rod). That was too hard so i put them on the unit on the right at and I was able to make the rod piston in and out from the unit on the left(I will look up what these are called so i don't sound like such a &^&^$%&$).

It moved firmly but smoothly.

I did have a look at the wastegate arm with a  friend revving the engine and it didn't seem to move but I have to research whether that's even a valid test and the best way too test it.

 

  I also bought and put a fuel cap on it because I noticed under the  door it had no cap(!! haha).

 

I took it for a test drive and it seemed to work pretty good as it first did but then after about 10 minutes lost all power. (meaning it would go but take forever to start moving even with the pedal to the floor) I stopped and disconnected the battery(trying to get it out of 'limp' mode if that's what it was doing) It was still gutless, staggered home (it was also running rough on start up, didn't even want to move) parked it and when I was backing up into my spot it seemed okay, so I took it for a spin down the alley and it seemed back to normal...I really hate intermittant problems!!  

At this point taking it to anyone that will require payment to check it out isn't any option, especially driving it any significant distance. I'm in Lynn Valley, North Van, Richmond is usually about 45 min away across town. My brother might have a code reader I can borrow.

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Toxophilite

[Willys]

What does the bottom of the intercooler look like? Covered in oil or fresh and clean? If dripping with oil maybe it's rubbed through and you aren't getting any boost capabilities?  Is the engine always the same temp when this happens as in a warm engine or a colder one?  Is it heat related in any way?  You'll know much more after you get the code numbers out if it's throwing any that is. But if the check engine light is on it is.  Just spit balling ideas or thoughts out, you never know.?

[Toxophilite]

True enough  I'm going to see if I can borrow a code reader for now to get some definite things to look into to.

 

I might've got it working better. I took out about another 1/4 litre of oil and have it at about 3/4 on the dipstick now. I also noticed the air filter cover wasn't snapped down so I did that too..which got rid of the loud aspect (haha) Went through and check what electrical connections I could see, they all look good but it doesn't hurt to make sure.

 

Test drove for about 20 min around the neighbourhood and I couldn't get it to repeat the no power experience , which is great..hopefully.

it ceratainly is drivable now and I was enjoying it's go-cart like feel. Also the ability to do complete circles in the middle of the road(side road no traffic)

It seems weak on hills and doesn't seem to want to get above 3000-2500 rpm. You can put the pedal down but not much change.

Is that the safe mode?

It gives me one wrench on start up (on the display) and has a -710 at the bottom

 

I'm thinking some injector cleaner wouldn't be amiss, any recommendations?

Also a proper oil change. where is the oil filter on this car? I was looking around but nothing seemed obvious.

[Nigel]

The single wrench is a maintenance reminder one wrench “A” service two wrenches “B” service. The minus 710 is how many km or days (I’m not sure) you are over do for a service.  Oil change something like this https://www.evilution.co.uk/411

 

I will stay out of the additive debate except to say if you are getting diesel with biofuel mixed in already it should clean things up in a couple of tanks.  

 

Nigel

[MikeT]

the "-" is days service is overdue.  So: two years....ugh

[Toxophilite]

Is that determined by actual time passed or km because in the last umpteen years it has mostly sat. 

There's 76,000 km on the odometer and few of those were put on during the time of my father's ownership.

I can't say about prior.

[Willys]

I use a deisel additive every other tank full, it did make a difference to the fuel mileages, and that is not a joke! Before using it I was well above 4.5 litres per hundred killometers driven now i'm well below 4 litres per hundred, usually 3.5.....and i do not believe the idea of a mechanic in a can thought pattern.....but in this case it's true to some extent!  I doubt I'll get better mileage numbers now but I can't see it harming anything by adding 48ml per tank of deisel conditioner. A silver can from Canadian Tire.....not their brand name but another ...I'll try and remember to get the actual name tomorrow.

Aircleaner cover,lol yep, might have had something to do with the noise levels...lol

 

[MikeT]

38 minutes ago, Toxophilite said:

Is that determined by actual time passed or km because in the last umpteen years it has mostly sat. 

The days rack up whether it's driven or not, so long as the battery is connected.

[Toxophilite]

Going to do an oil and oil filter change and drive it a bit on shorter jaunts and see what develops. I can use a code reader in a day or two when my brother returns from holiday. I also have to source out some decent used tires as one of the front ones has a slow leak and is pretty fatigued despite still having good tread, I'll probably replace both of them and see if I can find another rim and have a spare. I don't like the idea of not having a spare. neat little car, I get a kick out of the turning radius and it really only seems small from the outside.

Thanks for all the insight so far.

[smartdriver]

57 minutes ago, Toxophilite said:

I also have to source out some decent used tires as one of the front ones has a slow leak and is pretty fatigued despite still having good tread,

 

Have you tried the liquid sealant that comes with the car and is stored in the passenger footwell?

 

Although I have not used it on my smarts, I have used it on other smaller tires and it appears to work quite well.

 

The foam storage insert in the passenger footwell also contains a small tool to remove the valve to allow the liquid to be inserted.

[MikeT]

....and if you get a spare too, buy a 3.5 inch wide front steel wheel (1/2 inch narrower than stock) and mount a 115/70-15 space saver on it.  Put it in a canvas bag and it fits behind a fully rearward driver's seat.  Put the jack inside the canvas tire bag and tie it to the rim.