Help, injectors not firing. 2006 CDI

[Bodie]

Hello everyone, new here and needing some help with my 2006 Fortwo CDI Passion I just purchased. I bought the car disassembled with a replacement engine ready to be installed. I got the new engine in and cannot get the car to start. Here is a list of everything I have done/replaced so far...

 

New alternator

New battery

 

checked all fuses and connections/wires at the SAM

 

checked all sensor connections 

 

no DTC codes

 

300 bar of rail pressure while cranking

 

300 rpm while cranking at the crank sensor

 

ECU is commanding 20mm3 of fuel

duration while cranking

 

electric fuel pump is running

 

engine has good compression 

 

WILL RUN on starting fluid, but dies after you stop spraying

 

have tried 3 different sets of used injectors 

 

I’m not sure what else could cause the injectors to not fire... I only have a small diagnostic reader and I am in the US so there really isn’t anyone who wants to work on it... any help would be greatly appreciated. 

[Willys]

Have you rebuilt the high pressure fuel pump?  Checked the fuel rail sensor?  

OH and welcome to the site......keep checking. I always rant about ground wires, might not be this issue but is most....lol.   Did you take SAM apart and check for burnt pins and solder joints? Also there is a small white connector in front of battery in battery well, it usually goes green etc, cut it out and solder the wires together.  Crank position sensor goes bad around the 150,000 km range....from what I have heard. Just for fun take nozzles off injectors and see what the spray pattern is like, nozzles can be bought separately now for under $200. Injectors can also be semi dismantled and sonic cleaned, all but the top cap.  It makes a big difference.

 

Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress....there will be many others posting good advise I'm sure.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Willys

[Bodie]

7 minutes ago, Willys said:

Have you rebuilt the high pressure fuel pump?  Checked the fuel rail sensor?  

OH and welcome to the site......keep checking. I always rant about ground wires, might not be this issue but is most....lol.   Did you take SAM apart and check for burnt pins and solder joints? Also there is a small white connector in front of battery in battery well, it usually goes green etc, cut it out and solder the wires together.  Crank position sensor goes bad around the 150,000 km range....from what I have heard. Just for fun take nozzles off injectors and see what the spray pattern is like, nozzles can be bought separately now for under $200. Injectors can also be semi dismantled and sonic cleaned, all but the top cap.  It makes a big difference.

 

Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress....there will be many others posting good advise I'm sure.

I have not rebuilt the high pressure pump, I don’t see a need due to the fact it is meeting the ECU requested pressure. I have not pulled apart the SAM, I will do that now. Thank You for the advise! 

[Bodie]

Does anyone know where I can find the ECU pinouts? I want to bypass the SAM and wire the ECU in a stand-alone type of setup. I tried AllDataDIY but they do not have the pinout schematics.  

[Willys]

Did you check the ECU pins for corrosion? There usually is 3 pins that get bad. BEWARE...the ECU holds a charge and if you accidentally short these pins it is toast...ask me how I know....LOL... the SAM doesn't so not too much to worry about when opening up that unit. Did you also clean the EGR valve as it will also get plugged up and not work. I could keep going on what requires cleaning and inspection for pages.....sad to say. It's a finicky little beast this CDI is....great once you get the bugs ironed out....

[Willys]

1 minute ago, Bodie said:

Does anyone know where I can find the ECU pinouts? I want to bypass the SAM and wire the ECU in a stand-alone type of setup. I tried AllDataDIY but they do not have the pinout schematics.  

Someone tried this when building a bike if I recall correctly, but he had a huge job to get it to work.  He was in Sweden or somewhere in that area. 

I think you'll have a hard time removing the SAM and getting it to work well.  Easier to simply keep it in stock form as once you have it running well it's a great little scooter.  Great on fuel also if you don't beat it to death. I get 80 MPGs easily.  But I do drive it for economy not performance....and I usually build vehicles for performance not fuel economy....
Search out smart car engine in motorcycle and I think you should find the guy.

[Willys]

http://www.dieselbike.net/mercedes/mercedes.htm

 

[LooseLugNuts]

i bought mine as a basket case too

 

took me all winter to get it back together but anyway long story short i couldnt get it started for 2 weeks and just about to give up when i decided to go over every single wire connector and after a bit of checking i pressed one and heard a click and then i was able to start it ...if i remember right it was on the pump

 

so my advice is to check all your connectors 

[tolsen]

High pressure pump has a third pumping element cut out solenoid. When energised only two pumping elements work. Its purpose is to save energy as pumping fuel to high pressure when not needed is waste of energy and fuel. 

 

300 bar when cranking is adequate to start engine. Possible causes for no start could be low compression or faulty engine speed sensor. 

 

These engines do not have any camshaft position sensor but works out how to synchronise crankshaft with camshaft by analysing changes in angular velocity of flywheel. 

 

I have found my engine always synchronises on no 1 cylinder. I therefore wonder if sufficiently low compression on no 1 may lead to no start. 

 

Perhaps you can try spraying penetration oil into air intake to lube cylinder walls and improve compression?

[Bodie]

15 hours ago, LooseLugNuts said:

i bought mine as a basket case too

 

took me all winter to get it back together but anyway long story short i couldnt get it started for 2 weeks and just about to give up when i decided to go over every single wire connector and after a bit of checking i pressed one and heard a click and then i was able to start it ...if i remember right it was on the pump

 

so my advice is to check all your connectors 

this morning I dropped the engine again and reconnected every connection, and cut and crimped on a new terminal on the power wire at the alternator as it was a little corroded. Still no start.

[Bodie]

4 hours ago, tolsen said:

High pressure pump has a third pumping element cut out solenoid. When energised only two pumping elements work. Its purpose is to save energy as pumping fuel to high pressure when not needed is waste of energy and fuel. 

 

300 bar when cranking is adequate to start engine. Possible causes for no start could be low compression or faulty engine speed sensor. 

 

These engines do not have any camshaft position sensor but works out how to synchronise crankshaft with camshaft by analysing changes in angular velocity of flywheel. 

 

I have found my engine always synchronises on no 1 cylinder. I therefore wonder if sufficiently low compression on no 1 may lead to no start. 

 

Perhaps you can try spraying penetration oil into air intake to lube cylinder walls and improve compression?

Yesterday I sprayed some WD40 in the cylinders and checked everything with a bore scope. You can still see the cross hatching in every cylinder. I can read RPM via the crank sensor, it will spin 300-330 while cranking. 
 

When I pull the injectors out, the nozzles and pistons are dry, the ECU just isn’t firing them. I may try to find someone with a STAR to see if they can do anything... would remapping the ECU possibly help? I wanted a performance tune anyway and EGR delete.

[tolsen]

Have you turned engine around by hand? Do you feel same compression on each cylinder?

[tolsen]

Easier if you remove rocker cover. 

[Willys]

You can get a compression tester off Amazon and get precise numbers.   Just curious, IF the nozzles ate were dry that to me means no fuel is getting sent, not the fact you have weak compression. I would have thought it would be wet with poor compression due to lack of ignition of fuel...?  I still say no signal from somewhere or a ground for that signal.  OR please rebuild high pressure fuel pump, it's simple, just don't use anything to hold seals in place like I did with the first one I rebuilt...I used vaseline and it plugged it up and wouldn't start! Cleaned it out again and started easily! IF you do make sure you buy the complete mrebuild kit, the one with the two larger "O" rings that seal the pump to the engine, cheap kits leave these out. Dealer sells them cheap so no worries.

Good luck....keep us posted.

[Bodie]

I am going to run out to my parts conex this morning and grab all of the sensors and engine harness off the old engine. I also think my compression tester is in there also. I will swap all of the old sensors and harness onto this engine and see what happens. I cleaned the injectors yesterday also. 

[Willys]

Just a question, did you or the last owner swap out any of the computers to try and get it to run?  They all need to be mated together to get the car to run using a STAR. I fried my ECU and had to teach each computer to talk to the rest.  Just thinking outside the box? 

[Bodie]

On 7/15/2020 at 0:44 PM, Willys said:

Just a question, did you or the last owner swap out any of the computers to try and get it to run?  They all need to be mated together to get the car to run using a STAR. I fried my ECU and had to teach each computer to talk to the rest.  Just thinking outside the box? 

No, the only thing changed was the long block. I just got the engine back in with all the original sensors and harness, no change. Still no start. 
 

What kind of oil do these transmissions use? Online I see people saying ATF but it had what looks like engine oil in it.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Bodie

[Bodie]

Would MB Star be worth buying? Can’t you see and do a lot more with that software? Going to a dealer just isn’t an option, that would mean going to Canada 2000miles away. 

[LooseLugNuts]

7 hours ago, Bodie said:

What kind of oil do these transmissions use

id recommend a dexron III.....preferably a synthetic one

[Bodie]

I found the pinouts for the ECU and it looks like everything checks out. The ECU is receiving all power and ground signals from the SAM. I also checked all ECU power at the SAM and they are all correct. I am waiting on a new compression tester, which cylinder is #1? The cylinder closest to the crank sensor, or further away? 
 

Also, is there anyone who sells an engine rebuild kit that will ship to the US?

[Bodie]

Just checked compression, they all have about 450psi of compression. 

[Willys]

Also, is there anyone who sells an engine rebuild kit that will ship to the US?

 

Yes if you pay for it on a credit card and not pay-pal, they have been bitten many times before from people in the USA so they said when I started buying from them. I'm in Canada and they didn't trust me either but after the first few purchases they opened up.
The  company is MW-SMART in yes Germany.  Great guys to deal with, but very very busy!

 

Check my pics in Wiki of my rebuild......they supplied me with everything. 

They are the cheapest and the only reliable source I could find for engine rebuild parts. You need to tell them exactly what you want and order it.....they do respond to emails but rarely phone calls due to work load.  

 

https://www.smart-ersatzteile.com/en_GB

 

PM me if you need help.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Willys

[Bodie]

3 minutes ago, Willys said:

Also, is there anyone who sells an engine rebuild kit that will ship to the US?

 

Yes if you pay for it on a credit card and not pay-pal, they have been bitten many times before from people in the USA so they said when I started buying from them. I'm in Canada and they didn't trust me either but after the first few purchases they opened up.
The  company is MW-SMART in yes Germany.  Great guys to deal with, but very very busy!

 

Check my pics in Wiki of my rebuild......they supplied me with everything.  They are the cheapest and the only reliable source I could find for engine rebuild parts. You need to tell them exactly what you want and order it.....they do respond to emails but rarely phone calls due to work load.  

 

https://www.smart-ersatzteile.com/en_GB

 

PM me if you need help.

I appreciate it Willy’s, but I don’t think a rebuild is in order since the compression check. The only thing I can think of that may need to be replaced are the injectors. But I feel that is pretty unlikely since I have swapped in two other used sets and none of them fire. I’m at a loss with this thing...

I wanted to use this car for the pits at the race track. Here is my Cummins powered drag truck I built, figured the diesel guys over here would enjoy it. 
https://www.dieselarmy.com/features/the-dark-horse-bodie-armstrongs-self-built-shorty-ram-from-texas/

 

[Willys]

Sonic clean the injectors to like new then replace nozzles, the difference is noticable for sure.  I am waiting for a set for the last injectors I just sonic cleaner for another member here.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BPV9J8W/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

These are the injector nozzles that fit our cars.

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Willys

[LooseLugNuts]

i have zero experience with these injectors but im thinking you might be able to test for signal with a noid light to rule out the electrics

Edited July 19, 2020 by LooseLugNuts