tyc Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 SAM is the unit that controls everything that happens in the car - apart from the connecting element between the steering wheel and the pedals :)). It is prone to water penetration and electricity does not reconcile with water - it can give rise to strange phenomena ... It is removed from the car. Where is it located and how is it done https://www.fq101.co.uk/how-to-guides/fortwo-450/electrical/258-450-sam-removal After removal it is taken to a room with min 20C and its acclimatization is allowed - the clips being made of plastic (over which a few years have passed) they will break when opened. After acclimatization (~ 2h) it opens It is cleaned with IPA spray and with the help of a drawing brush, a toothbrush is also good. That was the theory, now the practice: -I removed it from the car according to the video and I found it -I brought it home, in the heat -I allowed it to stay for a few hours Now the surprises begin - this unit has been opened a few more times ... marks on the head of the screws, broken flaps -was treated with something inappropriate -oxides in the fuse house -corrosion in general (in the photo it's a small part) -oxides among the components, in a consistent layer Now I don't have any (IPA, spray contact) but the shops will open after tomorrow - unless the government decides otherwise. Anyway, I have to buy a connector (N11-3 male) from Dismantling, which I will connect with a terminal block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 This is the worst SAM I have ever seen, I'm sorry to say....damn! Do you own or can you get your hands on a STAR machine? IF so I'd be buying a far better used SAM and going that route. Again sorry. Try using vinegar solution to clean SAM with then rinse then reseal.....if sensor cleaner isn't available....BUT, this comes with ZERO guarentee's....I used proper sensor cleaner on mine with a plastic tooth bush and it worked but it took some careful brushing and wasn't anywhere near as bad as yours. Just do not do this to your ECU as it holds a charge and it will fry itself.... There is another way, if you find a scrap car which runs, of the same year and type and options, you can swap out all 3 computers without the need of a STAR machine.....You need a STAR to be able to introduce a new SAM so it will speak with the Speedo and ECU, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyc Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 I didn't find Smart so rusty either, and I made him laugh, and yet I took care of Smart and a little dismemberment. I have MBStar but the HDD just broke .... D630 @ Co .I intend to buy a Xentry image through eBay. I have the brushes ready, I have to detach the board with the processor to clean it properly. I use IPA for cleaning. In the past I have reconditioned some CDI from motorcycles (Honda / Suzuki) and I am fully aware that it may or may not succeed. I've been dealing with the Smart 450 for a long time, but the first model was from 1998-2003. Although I know 450 @ ZEE well, smart facelift with SAM is a novelty for me, the computer system is different. The front suspension also differs from the gearbox. In EDG / MEG I don't know if the mileage is stored. only a small part. Detachment will be done from here and maybe I need to know more about it. All this is due to a battery - everywhere in the car there are traces of corrosion and I am preparing for a chemical decontamination - neutralization by washing with sodium carbonate - this is the theory assimilated in the 8 years in which I dealt with batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Show us what you wish to buy from Ebay before you purchase it please.....you need DAS with-in the STAR machine, That is what I use to get into the electronics of the car not Xentry which is also in the STAR but for some reason doesn't work...? The back of that SAM board doesn't look as bad as the first pics you showed....so I expect it can be repaired at least for that one row of pins and it's connector issues etc. Can you flip it over and you can open it up further unless it won't let you..? Yes the mileage is stored if you replace the SAM it simply takes the higher mileage and there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. Doesn't matter anyway imho....unless you are trying to sell car etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolinor Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Xentry works fine on my Smarts. Personally if I could not mend the SAM then I would get a used one and swap the eproms. No need for any machine then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Can you point out,the EPROM that you say can be swapped out...? Or any other useful bits of info about the SAM etc that could be useful to us in the future? I have a few SAMs here one is in bad condition water damage wise, but not as bad as the one above thankfully. The STAR machine I have also has XENTRY but I never use it as DAS is what I find works....I wonder if there is a difference between the two systems..? I'm curious to know so i can use mine to it's fullest capabilities. Thanks for all and any help.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
450ken Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 When the weather warms I think I'm going to drop my SAM down and spray it with Fluid Film to prevent corrosion like this, you know the old saying an ounce of prevention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolinor Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 No, DAS or WIS are called from Xentry. In fact I seem to remember that after a certain year DAS and WIS will not run alone, only through Xentry. 2014 rings a bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartdriver Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 On 1/24/2022 at 2:31 PM, 450ken said: When the weather warms I think I'm going to drop my SAM down and spray it with Fluid Film to prevent corrosion like this, you know the old saying an ounce of prevention. Just a suggestion. I don't believe that the SAM water problems are necessarily due to a leaky windshield. I believe that condensation gets on the wiring harness which is above the SAM and wicks into the SAM on connectors N11-8 and N11-9. This could be a result of air conditioning condensation and in my case I had frequently overcharged the 12V battery in the car which did not have an overflow tube going to the outside. As a result sulfuric acid fumes formed in the car which severely damaged the wiring in the SAM. After fixing the SAM I placed a sponge under the wiring harness above the SAM which absorbs any condensation on the harness. Nine years later and parked outside in a Canadian weather environment I haven't had any more SAM problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyc Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 In my case it was the battery that 'gassed' the inside ... at the bottom of the battery compartment there are 2 holes in the floor covered with plastic plugs (on some models) or a hole in the floor, near the terminal minus ) provided by the manufacturer for venting the battery. `Those holes when they get clogged ... I also found the wet carpet next to the battery. Combo, 2 in 1. Renault 12 had something like this on the floor and when it was covered in a short time (1 ... 2 years) the floor was perforated. Coating the PCB to SAM with varnish is welcome but I have no idea how to react over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseLugNuts Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) water on the floor near battery is usually due to leaking seal on right rear quarter window ive only seen one brown connector melted that bad ...on my 05 cabrio...i was able to clean it up and get good connections again but the next person who has to work on it is going have a real wtf moment when they find it because its in two sections lol Edited January 26, 2022 by LooseLugNuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyc Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 Really so and it's at 450 nonfacelift ... the body is the same as the facelift so so! I had a free moment and I opened the microcontroller board from the mb. I was also surprised: In reality it is much worse than seen in the pictures. On the buzzer and in its vicinity is a thin layer of ... soot! The relays also have oxides underneath. The left side of the PCB looks like it's covered in wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyc Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 Today I received the materials for reconditioning - IPA, contact U, block terminal, SN74HC151D. Also today I was diagnosed positively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyc Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 I washed the IPA board. The result is satisfactory. The N11-3 connector is burned out. I pulled the pine from the burn and it's awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
450ken Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 I use to spray electrical connectors ect with Fluid Film If you can catch this early a coating of Fluid Film would pretty much shut down any future corrosion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartdriver Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 2 hours ago, tyc said: I washed the IPA board. The result is satisfactory. The N11-3 connector is burned out. I pulled the pine from the burn and it's awful. I had a similar problem. By applying a soldering iron to the underside of the connector I was able to pull the bad pin out with needle nose pliers. Then by applying a soldering on the underside of an unused pin I was able to pull it out and push it into the hole of the original bad pin and resolder it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 You can buy new pigtails for those from the dealer. I got a free one when my white car's second SAM burnt a pin 1 month after the second SAM was out of its parts warranty. That was a dead easy fix, and external relays on the headlights (that time) and fuel pump (first time) have given me smooth sailing for a few years now. Still have the original SAM with the damaged fuel pump pin. Probably repairable..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyc Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 9 hours ago, 450ken said: Obișnuiesc să pulverizez conectorii electrici, etc., cu film fluid. Dacă reușiți să depistați acest lucru devreme, un strat de film fluid ar închide aproape orice coroziune viitoare. This is how I received this smart. The 11-3 connector has been changed 1 more time (at least). Anyway, the connector is dead from the design - a stronger one had to be put there considering the currents it supports. The starting current for an electric motor is up to 8x the rated current. The starting current for a filament bulb (such as headlight bulbs) is high when the filament is cold. And so on . On that connector are the main consumers of the car and yet it has thin pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyc Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 @smartdriver Am luat decizia sa inlocuiesc acel conector cu un block terminal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyc Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 Mike T I have to buy the pair, they're both broken. Out of curiosity I have to ask a question to the smart representative (maybe answer), anyway the system is wrong from the design - when I asked Dismantling about that plug it was already known what it was about although I did not give reference data, it is a 'classic' defect . The connector in question can also be found on the Mouser for 2.64 euros, but it is incorrectly applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolinor Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 If you design it right people cannot afford to buy. RR have 65% of their cars still on the road. I have no idea what % the other manufacturers have but I doubt that it will be over 10 % if that. Manufacturers have to cater to the market. The competition for the Smart is huge and most of them are cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild! Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) Why not use a external set of 40A relays to power the what you want and have the sam drive the relays at a lower current. That is what I have done on all my heavy loads. Edited January 28, 2022 by Wild! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Wild! said: Why not use a external set of 40A relays to power the what you want and have the sam drive the relays at a lower current. That is what I have done on all my heavy loads. Yep, this is what I have done, use the stock SAM to control a relay which takes all the brunt of daily use....if designed correctly it'll never destroy it'self again...no...? This what the manufacturer should have done but as said above, cost factors were taken into account and they used the cheapest way they could.....knowing the average amount of years normally in service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyc Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) Mjolinor, unfortunately this is one of the consequences of the consumer market - replacement, ie the sale of new goods. Wild! At 450 with ZEE, this is exactly what was done - there was no external set of relays and no water penetration into the control circuits. At 450 / SAM and 451 (also with SAM, the same hardware) there were countless claims with: stop running, intermittent fuel pump, horn that only stops when taking the battery, headlights that work continuously - all these are operated from SAM. Also burned N11-3 - on ae is the actuation of the pump, horn, headlights. Edited January 28, 2022 by tyc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyc Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) Willys These cars have been designed to last a while, Mercedes engineers realized that W115 strich-acht was a mistake from an economic point of view so ... Everything must be for consumption! Sale, sale, sale - this is the spirit of the economy. Edited January 28, 2022 by tyc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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