Help with sucking oil out with Mityvac 7201

[smartme]

2005 CDI.  Can only get about 1.5 litre out no matter what I try.  Is there any trick?   Always had problems using this hand pump vac "Mityvac 7201" but this was the hardest yet.  Could be my pump was also partially faulty as when I use the reverse push knob to force the oil out of the mityvac, the oil will not flow out no matter how many times I pump it for vacuum.  Anyone still sell the drain pan with the oil drain plug here in Canada?

Edited April 26, 2022 by smartme

[Willys]

I say chuck the pump away and get that drain pan.....even if from over seas.  I can change my oil and filter and not even lift the car from the rear....simple....
I'd just keep refilling the oil after changing the filter as it is now until you can get a new pan with drain in it.  Sorry to offend, but I hate the mess and struggle thinking you have gotten all the crud out just to refill good new oil with the old dirty crap you couldn't get out using a sucker.....just my bent nickle's worth.   Sorry....!
I saw the pans not long ago somewhere in North America for a semi decent price but best price is from Germany but you may have to wait a bit to get it here thanks to the COVID  backlogs...?

 

https://www.smart-ersatzteile.com/epages/61935289.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61935289/Products/103567450bn

 

I bought all my rebuilding bits and pieces from these guys, great people but hard to actually speak to, all done using text etc....they also used to have cheap shipping and used to be fast.  Don't know at the moment with the way things are going.

[LooseLugNuts]

germanparts.ca had them but i just checked and it appears they dont carry them anymore

 

i bought a couple oil pans from aliexpress....super easy to install them ...but a quick check I can only find one listed and its expensive with very expensive shipping on top of that (i think i paid maybe $40 shipped when i bought mine)

 

 

 

rockauto shows some spectra premium ones for $56 plus shipping..

[MikeT]

Pela pumps are available at boating supply stores and are marvellous. For the Mercedes I can change the oil in a woollen suit but in the smart a touch of kneeling is needed to get at the oil filter so grubbies are called for. I have't used a drain plug for 15 years, even though two of my three cars have them.

[smartme]

On 4/27/2022 at 5:06 AM, Willys said:

I say chuck the pump away and get that drain pan.....even if from over seas.  I can change my oil and filter and not even lift the car from the rear....simple....
I'd just keep refilling the oil after changing the filter as it is now until you can get a new pan with drain in it.  Sorry to offend, but I hate the mess and struggle thinking you have gotten all the crud out just to refill good new oil with the old dirty crap you couldn't get out using a sucker.....just my bent nickle's worth.   Sorry....!
I saw the pans not long ago somewhere in North America for a semi decent price but best price is from Germany but you may have to wait a bit to get it here thanks to the COVID  backlogs...?

 

https://www.smart-ersatzteile.com/epages/61935289.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61935289/Products/103567450bn

 

I bought all my rebuilding bits and pieces from these guys, great people but hard to actually speak to, all done using text etc....they also used to have cheap shipping and used to be fast.  Don't know at the moment with the way things are going.

 

Thanks for the link!  Yeah, hate that dam pump, it got on my nerves since day one.  They have the oil pan in stock and I just have to figure out how to pay them as they advertise paypal but say to wire the money over in the instructions.  Kind of confusing but I really want that oil pan.

[smartme]

23 hours ago, MikeT said:

Pela pumps are available at boating supply stores and are marvellous. For the Mercedes I can change the oil in a woollen suit but in the smart a touch of kneeling is needed to get at the oil filter so grubbies are called for. I have't used a drain plug for 15 years, even though two of my three cars have them.

 

What would be the difference between the Pela pump and my Mityvac one?  The Mityvac sucks out about 1.5 litre or oil if that no matter how I move the pipe and thats about it so how would the Pela pump do any better?

[smartme]

On 4/29/2022 at 8:00 PM, LooseLugNuts said:

germanparts.ca had them but i just checked and it appears they dont carry them anymore

 

i bought a couple oil pans from aliexpress....super easy to install them ...but a quick check I can only find one listed and its expensive with very expensive shipping on top of that (i think i paid maybe $40 shipped when i bought mine)

 

 

 

rockauto shows some spectra premium ones for $56 plus shipping..

 

Do  you have a link to the actual Rockauto oil pan?  Couldn't find one there for a 2005 smart cdi.

[Willys]

8 hours ago, smartme said:

 

Thanks for the link!  Yeah, hate that dam pump, it got on my nerves since day one.  They have the oil pan in stock and I just have to figure out how to pay them as they advertise paypal but say to wire the money over in the instructions.  Kind of confusing but I really want that oil pan.

The reason these guys are very hesitant on payment is because the folks below our border have screwed them over plenty of times by ordering parts  worth a pretty penny then waiting just long enough for the parts to have been shipped then cancelling the order and getting their stuff for free. It took me some convincing to get them to send me complete engine rebuild kit parts when i was rebuilding my engine completely. My order was well into the 4 digit category.  All they saw was another rip off about to happen. I can understand their precautions because of their past issues with North American buyers.  BUT, once they get to know you ,after the first order, they send things as normal. They are very good guys but they are super busy with their shop etc at least they were when i was ordering. I bought every moving part brand new basically for the entire car from these guys so have dealt with them many times.  I will still use them if the price is anywhere near even or better.  Yes I am biased so to speak. They have been very fair with me.

But all this or should i say 95% of it was before COVID so I do not know of the shipping rates or times now a days as COVID has screwed almost everything .

As for the using a pump, not a hope in hell, I'd even weld in a drain plug  simply to be able to get all the lingering crap out of my engine possible. IMHO, there is no way a suction pipe or hose can get as much of the old oil out as gravity can. What are the chances you will get the end of the hose or pipe in the perfect location to be able to get it out?  UNLESS the engineers have directed the pipe to the lowest possible location in the oil pan, and i can't see that happening..I could be wrong...but I doubt it.   Plus have you ever used this pump and not gotten covered in used black oil when draining the oil, I haven't. Mind you I have only used it maybe 6 times before it died on me, I instantly bought the drain plug pan.  
To each their own....do as you see fit...but I'll never suck the oil if I can get a drain plug to work on any vehicle I own.   If the vehicle is designed where you can't get underneath of it them sure suck away, but if you can gravity drain  your oil I vote drain it.

Again, text, or try calling them or E transfer it to them if they will do it that way....they have just about anything you may want for our Smart cars which is another good reason to use them imho. Can't allow them to stop selling to us here who can't find parts easily here.

[MikeT]

12 hours ago, smartme said:

 

What would be the difference between the Pela pump and my Mityvac one?  The Mityvac sucks out about 1.5 litre or oil if that no matter how I move the pipe and thats about it so how would the Pela pump do any better?

 

Pela will suck out up to 8 L of oil in one go.

[smartme]

54 minutes ago, MikeT said:

 

Pela will suck out up to 8 L of oil in one go.

How long does it take to suck out the oil in a cdi?

[smartme]

4 hours ago, Willys said:

The reason these guys are very hesitant on payment is because the folks below our border have screwed them over plenty of times by ordering parts  worth a pretty penny then waiting just long enough for the parts to have been shipped then cancelling the order and getting their stuff for free. It took me some convincing to get them to send me complete engine rebuild kit parts when i was rebuilding my engine completely. My order was well into the 4 digit category.  All they saw was another rip off about to happen. I can understand their precautions because of their past issues with North American buyers.  BUT, once they get to know you ,after the first order, they send things as normal. They are very good guys but they are super busy with their shop etc at least they were when i was ordering. I bought every moving part brand new basically for the entire car from these guys so have dealt with them many times.  I will still use them if the price is anywhere near even or better.  Yes I am biased so to speak. They have been very fair with me.

But all this or should i say 95% of it was before COVID so I do not know of the shipping rates or times now a days as COVID has screwed almost everything .

As for the using a pump, not a hope in hell, I'd even weld in a drain plug  simply to be able to get all the lingering crap out of my engine possible. IMHO, there is no way a suction pipe or hose can get as much of the old oil out as gravity can. What are the chances you will get the end of the hose or pipe in the perfect location to be able to get it out?  UNLESS the engineers have directed the pipe to the lowest possible location in the oil pan, and i can't see that happening..I could be wrong...but I doubt it.   Plus have you ever used this pump and not gotten covered in used black oil when draining the oil, I haven't. Mind you I have only used it maybe 6 times before it died on me, I instantly bought the drain plug pan.  
To each their own....do as you see fit...but I'll never suck the oil if I can get a drain plug to work on any vehicle I own.   If the vehicle is designed where you can't get underneath of it them sure suck away, but if you can gravity drain  your oil I vote drain it.

Again, text, or try calling them or E transfer it to them if they will do it that way....they have just about anything you may want for our Smart cars which is another good reason to use them imho. Can't allow them to stop selling to us here who can't find parts easily here.

 

I speak German so that may help me a little.  Will give them a try and see if they will give me a chance.  I agree, I'm not a fan of sucking the oil out, it just doesn't seem right and yes, every time I did it, the black sooty oil was messy.   It's not a big deal at all to drain my oil under the car, I do it with all my other cars and the smart car oil filter on the cdi is the easiest change ever as I don't have to lift the car to get at it.

 

[MikeT]

5 minutes ago, smartme said:

How long does it take to suck out the oil in a cdi?

 Maybe 3-4 minutes at the longest (assuming the oil is warm)? Enough time to get the new oil filter out, installing it...

[smartme]

17 minutes ago, MikeT said:

 Maybe 3-4 minutes at the longest (assuming the oil is warm)? Enough time to get the new oil filter out, installing it...

 

Is there a trick with how you put the hose into the dip stick tube?  My Mityvac never took out the oil that fast and I had to continously play with the hose and keep pumping and pumping to get the oil out.

Hey Mike T, did have another question.  My Smart cdi diesel stinks and every time I open my window when driving it sucks in and chokes us.  Is this normal with the CDI's?

Edited May 1, 2022 by smartme

[Willys]

1 hour ago, smartme said:

 

Is there a trick with how you put the hose into the dip stick tube?  My Mityvac never took out the oil that fast and I had to continously play with the hose and keep pumping and pumping to get the oil out.

Hey Mike T, did have another question.  My Smart cdi diesel stinks and every time I open my window when driving it sucks in and chokes us.  Is this normal with the CDI's?

As for the smell, I'll bet your engine cover doesn't seal against the body or the twist hold down  has lost it's tension, either way that's where it's coming in from.....once you crack the windows it simply sucks the engine bay fumes in, you created a vacuum by opening the windows.   I have a good seal, and also have a carpet and also a couple of towels,(black) just to make things look nice....all that also helps keep the engine noise down too.

 

[smartme]

13 minutes ago, Willys said:

As for the smell, I'll bet your engine cover doesn't seal against the body or the twist hold down  has lost it's tension, either way that's where it's coming in from.....once you crack the windows it simply sucks the engine bay fumes in, you created a vacuum by opening the windows.   I have a good seal, and also have a carpet and also a couple of towels,(black) just to make things look nice....all that also helps keep the engine noise down too.

 

 

Now that make sense thanks!!!  There is tension on the twistie but the seal may be damaged.  I will look at it right now and work on it as it is the most uncomfortable thing about our car, otherwise we love it.

[smartme]

5 hours ago, Willys said:

As for the smell, I'll bet your engine cover doesn't seal against the body or the twist hold down  has lost it's tension, either way that's where it's coming in from.....once you crack the windows it simply sucks the engine bay fumes in, you created a vacuum by opening the windows.   I have a good seal, and also have a carpet and also a couple of towels,(black) just to make things look nice....all that also helps keep the engine noise down too.

 

Hey Willys, thanks man it worked.  I covered the engine bay on top with my sleeping bag and it cut all the diesel smell!.    Funny thing is that I can't see where the smell is leaking out of as the rubber gasket on the engine top cover is fine and the twist screw is tight, but the sleeping bag made all the difference now.

[MikeT]

Could be that your tailgate seal is faulty.

[smartme]

16 minutes ago, MikeT said:

Could be that your tailgate seal is faulty.

 

Never thought of that, going to look right now if I can see any flaws in it thanks!

[LooseLugNuts]

On 5/1/2022 at 1:27 AM, smartme said:

 

Do  you have a link to the actual Rockauto oil pan?  Couldn't find one there for a 2005 smart cdi.

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/smart,2005,fortwo,799cc+l3+diesel+turbocharged,1434365,engine,oil+pan,5562

 

SPECTRA PREMIUM MDP19A {1600140002} Info

CAD$55.72

 

 

 

they also list an out of stock dorman but the dorman doesnt have a drain...and dorman is crap....the spectra is most likely made in canada

Edited May 6, 2022 by LooseLugNuts

[Willys]

There is another way to do this IF you know a welder....get someone to weld in a drain plug then get them to build a shield to protect the nut from any accidental hits from something on the road which could weaken or loosen the plug.....a simple 3 sided wall facing forward is all that's needed the height of the plug.  This what i do to all my drain pans just to be save.  I have only seen one plug damaged by a large rock someone hit on the road, it wasn't leaking just deformed making it difficult to get a socket on it.

BUT, imho, you have to get under far enough to change the filter which is inches away from the drain plug so why not simply undo the drain plug at the same time, 2 birds with one stone as they say.....no need to mess with a oily sucker. ETC.

 

 

To each their own , it's what you feel more comfortable with.  I personally can't see how a sucker gets enough of the oil and debris out at every oil change compared to a good flow when the oil is warmed up.  

[smartme]

On 5/5/2022 at 7:16 PM, LooseLugNuts said:

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/smart,2005,fortwo,799cc+l3+diesel+turbocharged,1434365,engine,oil+pan,5562

 

SPECTRA PREMIUM MDP19A {1600140002} Info

CAD$55.72

 

 

 

they also list an out of stock dorman but the dorman doesnt have a drain...and dorman is crap....the spectra is most likely made in canada

 

Thanks for that link!  Would you know if the stock oil pan on our cars are aluminum like the one from Spectra or are they made of steel?   Does the spectra pan use a oem gasket?

Edited May 8, 2022 by smartme

[smartme]

On 5/7/2022 at 5:20 AM, Willys said:

There is another way to do this IF you know a welder....get someone to weld in a drain plug then get them to build a shield to protect the nut from any accidental hits from something on the road which could weaken or loosen the plug.....a simple 3 sided wall facing forward is all that's needed the height of the plug.  This what i do to all my drain pans just to be save.  I have only seen one plug damaged by a large rock someone hit on the road, it wasn't leaking just deformed making it difficult to get a socket on it.

BUT, imho, you have to get under far enough to change the filter which is inches away from the drain plug so why not simply undo the drain plug at the same time, 2 birds with one stone as they say.....no need to mess with a oily sucker. ETC.

 

 

To each their own , it's what you feel more comfortable with.  I personally can't see how a sucker gets enough of the oil and debris out at every oil change compared to a good flow when the oil is warmed up.  

 

I do know someone but not sure how good his work is, I will see if he can do it.   Would you know if our stock oil pan is steel or aluminum?  I see the aftermarket pans are aluminum which worries me a little, especially if the oem ones are steel.   The oil filter on this car is one of the easiest filters I have ever had on a car to change.  It's literally right in front of you as you look under the back, so changing the oil on this car is no problem for me at all.  

Edited May 8, 2022 by smartme

[Willys]

The oil pans on the 2005-2006 cars i own are both steel.
As for the quality of his welding, you could always add a smeer of JB-Weld after he's done ....lol....worst comes to worst, but I'd be checking the welds with alcohol after he's done for pin holes.

 

[smartme]

Thanks Willys, that's what I thought.  I'll pass on the aluminum aftermarket pans and get mine welded instead.  Is there some visual instructions or videos on how to weld the bolt correctly as I read there should be something welded inside the pan where the bolt is to make sure all the sludge runs out?  

Edited May 8, 2022 by smartme

[LooseLugNuts]

the spectra is stamped steel

 

they dont use gaskets you just use a bit of permatex and some common sense 

 

best feature of the oil pan is that it fits in a standard canada post community mailbox

 

 

 

if you have a friend that welds get him to add a drain plug....look on amazon youll see plenty of them for transmissions just weld it onto the outside of the pan