I have an over fueling issue....plenty of smoke...!

[Willys]

OK, I have an over fueling issue on my good car( soon to be a scrap car if this keeps up).  When it first starts it runs poorly and smokes well, as it warms up it semi clears up. It feels like a miss fire on a gasoline engine as best i can explain it. I have had a few people suggest it's getting far too much fuel. I have done so far.....swapped out known good injectors with the same result. Swapped out high pressure pump with same result. Checked intake route for any blockages, none. Checked turbo/intercooler hoses, same result, no holed inter cooler as it's new. Played with waste gate setting to get higher boost as when driving it wouldn't make over 13.4lbs of boost. I moved it 1/2" with zero effect. I hooked my STAR onto it looking for the fuel rail pressure, but don't know what it's supposed to be to know if my pressure is incorrect? Number 3 cylinder has the most out of balance number when you check the balance of the engine, it reads -2.2 against number one reading 1.2 and number 2 reading .9  . I know they all should add up to 1 in the end as a correctly balanced system, but number one and number two are the only ones that move slightly where number three sits basically at -2.2 or so.  I do not know enough about how diesel engines work to be able to diagnose the issue..?
I do know it is a over fueling type smoke that is leaving the engine as it burns your eyes if you stand too close so to speak. It has a fresh tank of fuel so the older fuel has over 3 times of good new fuel to compensate for any year old fuel causing this, no..?  Tractors sit in fields for months on end if not years and still run fine? They don't change fuel just because of it's age? 
The fuel rail sensors are both new also. The fuel filter is also new. Primary fuel pump is running and pressurizing as it should be. I was going to do a leak back test but though swapping injectors with known good ones would be easier.  This is how I found the carbon issue I'm also having....augh!

So any thoughts....best guesses....?   Absolute fixes....?   Known how to solve this shit...?????    Ideas on what else to check....?   

I do not want to simply run it and hope it clears up as it will wash the cylinders of their oil and cook the engine. Correct.

Again, any help would be greatly appreciated....thanks

[smart142]

1 hour ago, Willys said:

 I hooked my STAR onto it looking for the fuel rail pressure, but don't know what it's supposed to be to know if my pressure is incorrect? Number 3 cylinder has the most out of balance number when you check the balance of the engine, it reads -2.2 against number one reading 1.2 and number 2 reading .9  .

 

Are those the readings from the stars engine compression test?

[Willys]

42 minutes ago, smart142 said:

 

Are those the readings from the stars engine compression test?

Yes under engine system checks

[Willys]

Well a short update....I have one seized in injector, thanks to plenty of build up from carbon basically welded to the shaft of the injector.   I will tell you that the injector clamp down bracket wasn't designed to be used as a wrench after welding a nut to it to try and twist the injector loose....lol.  It snapped almost instantly when torque was applied to it.  I have just spent the last hour or so making a solid steel wrench to do the same job.  The stock clamp is a cast item not steel, if you wanted to know.  It's also winter again here so this job will have to wait, but the tool has been made.   Fingers crossed....it also has had many days of  industrial penetrating fluids sprayed onto it.

I also haven't done any other testing as in STAR readings yet.  When spring returns then I'll get back to it.    AUGH....!!!!

[Smart4two]

Maybe the stuck injector will end up being the black smoke culprit!

Super Dave Osborne(RIP) would have used ETHER and a match to extract it!     Don't try that....!

Edited March 31, 2023 by Smart4two

[Mjolinor]

You should use a straight pull for a stuck injector, not a twist unless it is the screw in type.

[Willys]

8 hours ago, Mjolinor said:

You should use a straight pull for a stuck injector, not a twist unless it is the screw in type.

I do not have such a beast, I was simply hoping to break the grasp and slowly work it upward.  I will try it this way with moderate force but stop after the fear of twisting the injector body, which I expect will be near impossible...?   But now I have said this, it will happen....lol.

 

I did for a second or tow think of taking clamp off injector and seeing IF the compression would solve the issue but a projectile traveling at the speed of sound is slightly disturbing...but it may happen if the twisting idea doesn't work.  That is if I can't find a puller or picture of this puller so i can make one possibly?  
This is after all in the beater, not the good car......so I am willing to try far more out of the box ideas......so to speak.

[Mjolinor]

Pretty simple are pullers. Just google injector puller and you will find loads of pics.

 

You could have used mine if you were closer but I fear it is hardly worth the effort to get it to you.

[450ken]

I have been having a real headache signing into this site with FireFox so I tried Chrome and I was able to sign in and respond. The symptoms you describe would be typically not over fueling. Over fueling usually causes black smoke not white smoke. Fuel injectors are high precision made the clearance between plunger and barrel measured in .0000 of an inch not .000 of an inch. If you have taken injectors apart and polished them ect you may have damaged them. Lots of white smoke is most often bad fuel injectors which can be the result of water in your fuel ect scuffing and scratching of the Barrel and plungers. Odds are if you put in a set of decent injectors your problem would disappear. If people turn their EGR valve 180 degrees and use the HotShot secret program https://www.hotshotsecret.com/everyday-diesel-treatment/  and every 6 months https://www.hotshotsecret.com/diesel-extreme/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk57Q_4aH_gIVii2tBh0LrwB8EAAYASAAEgL60_D_BwE  you wouldn't likely ever have to think about fuel injection issues again. I use HotShot secret and my engine runs so well it kind of shocks me, the diesel treatment raises the Cetane rating of the fuel it makes a big difference and stops a lot of rattle, crack and pop sounds from the engine noise. Our Diesel at the pumps is clean but the quality seems a tad low. 

[Willys]

2 hours ago, 450ken said:

Odds are if you put in a set of decent injectors your problem would disappear.

I have installed a good known working set into the car and have the same smoke issue. The fuel filter is brand new and the tank of fuel is over 3/4's brand new fuel, the rest is a year or so old.  
I have sonic cleaned many sets of injectors and installed many sets of new nozzles afterwards without any issue. I will admit, never take the very internal parts out of the injectors as that is where the very delicate items are.....yes I have upset a few just to see what was inside. The injectors I have in the car are sonic cleaned with new nozzles, same as the known working ones in my beater .....both sets are identical and only the ones in the car smoke no matter which set goes in. They do not smoke when installed in the beater.  So the issue is with the new car's fueling system somewhere. The white smoke is eye burning, not water smoke. Which tells me it's a fuel too rich issue. Not blue either so not oil. No foam in water so no head issue.
Any other ideas as I'm all ears as to what could possibly cause this.  Oh also EGR has been completely blocked off engine and an emulator installed, same as beater. Again I'm all ears....

[450ken]

I have seen before where this was a heavily retarded timing issue and also incorrect injector for the engine issue. I myself would start by getting rid of the fuel and start with fresh fuel just to rule that out and put it behind you. I always dump fuel filters out into a pail to look for water at change time water is deadly on diesel fuel systems far more than anything else,find water find another gas station. As the engine warms up the eye stinging white smoke is unburnt diesel fuel vapourized hot but not burned. Does the Start machine show restricted air intake ? Severely restricting air say due to a misplaced rag in the intake can do this. Bad injectors one way or another water damage or wrong Tips. Retarded engine timing ? To much retard of timing = White Smoke to much Advance is usually smoke Grey/black. Also A cylinder on the Star Machine that looks weak could just have a shitty injector.

[Willys]

I will be getting back to it once spring comes back, seems winter has something to say about it...augh!!!!   Snowed most of the day....FFS...!!!!!

I do have one injector or cylinder giving me a bad reading on the STAR machine and this is what I'm concerned about at the moment. I will be doing leak back testing and also swapping the injectors around to see if that bad number follows the injector around.  IF it doesn't then, Hmmmm.....?   I might get very serious and yank the engine as I have done everything else most have suggested already and i feel like I am chasing my tail around and around. I have been putting that off for a year as I have no rush to get it done so to speak.  Except for my own sanity...lol.

Again I'm all ears as to any possible solution.