RobCDI Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 My 2006 CDI with 190,000km has started having shifting problems. Im going to run through my diagnosis in order to hopefully help others that develop this problem. Problem: Car was shifting fine, then it was making a creaking noise with shifting(lubricated it), then it was intermittently failing to downshift followed by 3 bars (temporary solution, switch the car to neutral, turn off and restart the car), Now the car is failing to shift gears about 50% of the time, and when the car is stopped in first gear it makes a strange vibration(no clutch drag). I drive on a lot of dusty gravel roads, very dry environment. Common problems are clutch actuator wiring, clutch actuator issue, or clutch fork wear, where the actuator rod pushes on the fork. As of right now, a new actuator is $450 cad shipped, new fork is $85. Diagnosis: Ill drive the back of the car onto ramps, get under the car and see if the clutch actuator has slipped(unlikely), then I will put penetrating oil on the 3 clutch actuator bolts. Ill unplug the electronic plug for the actuator and check the wires for fraying. Then I will mark the position of the actuator on the car with permanent marker. I will hit the head of the '3 actuator bolts' hard with a hammer a few times, then take my propane torch to try and heat the areas the bolts thread into. Ill gently try to remove the bolts and not snap them, if they don't come out, ill re apply penetrating oil and repeat the hammer and heat process until they do come out. Once the actuator is off, ill examine the actuator rod for signs of wear(if the rod has punched through the fork). Ill take a pic on my phone of the fork through the hole and see if the fork is in ok condition. That will tell me what my problem is (im going to guess wiring fray due to bumpy roads, clutch actuator sluggishness due to lots of dust getting in, or lots of clutch fork wear). I will give the actuator a good cleaning and regreasing (if this fails ill order a new actuator) If the rod has worn a hole in the fork I will try to weld a washer on the actuator rod to increase contact patch between the rod and the fork. Ill update this post until the problem is fixed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 Seems you have it well researched and have all the right solutions needed to get the job sorted out. One thing imho you do not need to do and that is mark the present location of the actuator as when you re-install it you want it pressed tightly or should that be described as firmly against the clutch fork. Not forced or pryed against the fork just what you arm can generate imho. Then you can get it re-taught if and when you find a STAR machine but it will run just fine as a rough set up. I'll bet you snap the smaller bolts off and require a tap and die set to cut new threads etc, easy job if you have used one before but not impossible if you haven't. Also don't beat the bolts too hard trying to loosen them you may break off the tab the bolt is attached to or running through. IF it's badly rusted.....just go in with the idea of having to drill the bolt out anyway.....mentally far easier...lol. I have used an old wheel nut as the widened head of the shaft after shaping it to fit the job required. It is stronger than just a washer. Again you have the correct plan, so good luck and take pics as us arm chair mechanics always like to see someone else struggle...lol. Let us know how you make out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cregi Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 On 9/9/2023 at 7:02 PM, RobCDI said: My 2006 CDI with 190,000km has started having shifting problems. Im going to run through my diagnosis in order to hopefully help others that develop this problem. Problem: Car was shifting fine, then it was making a creaking noise with shifting(lubricated it), then it was intermittently failing to downshift followed by 3 bars (temporary solution, switch the car to neutral, turn off and restart the car), Now the car is failing to shift gears about 50% of the time, and when the car is stopped in first gear it makes a strange vibration(no clutch drag). I drive on a lot of dusty gravel roads, very dry environment. Common problems are clutch actuator wiring, clutch actuator issue, or clutch fork wear, where the actuator rod pushes on the fork. As of right now, a new actuator is $450 cad shipped, new fork is $85. Diagnosis: Ill drive the back of the car onto ramps, get under the car and see if the clutch actuator has slipped(unlikely), then I will put penetrating oil on the 3 clutch actuator bolts. Ill unplug the electronic plug for the actuator and check the wires for fraying. Then I will mark the position of the actuator on the car with permanent marker. I will hit the head of the '3 actuator bolts' hard with a hammer a few times, then take my propane torch to try and heat the areas the bolts thread into. Ill gently try to remove the bolts and not snap them, if they don't come out, ill re apply penetrating oil and repeat the hammer and heat process until they do come out. Once the actuator is off, ill examine the actuator rod for signs of wear(if the rod has punched through the fork). Ill take a pic on my phone of the fork through the hole and see if the fork is in ok condition. That will tell me what my problem is (im going to guess wiring fray due to bumpy roads, clutch actuator sluggishness due to lots of dust getting in, or lots of clutch fork wear). I will give the actuator a good cleaning and regreasing (if this fails ill order a new actuator) If the rod has worn a hole in the fork I will try to weld a washer on the actuator rod to increase contact patch between the rod and the fork. Ill update this post until the problem is fixed. Hi, any update in te process? I am facing similar issues, When siffting I am getting randomly the 3 bars on my display, and the car stays in N (or with the clutch opened), then I put the shifter in N, turn off and restart the car and the problem goes, and the car runs again. I have checked the wires and connectors and aparently everything is allright. We also did a clutch actuator adjustment with the MB Star, succesfully (didn't move the clutch actuator, though) So an update in your research may be helpful for me. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 Check the gear selector motor wiring harness where it goes around the inter cooler scoop, it's a well known area for rub through shorting of the wires. Have you checked the clearance physically with the clutch actuator as in is it pushed up firmly against the clutch fork arm? Did you also visually check if there is a hole in the clutch fork arm? Have you checked the connectors that relate to clutch actuator and gear selector motor for corrosion? Also continuity as in possible cut wiring at the crimp connections? Just things to check....Hope this helps.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cregi Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 15 minutes ago, Willys said: Check the gear selector motor wiring harness where it goes around the inter cooler scoop, it's a well known area for rub through shorting of the wires. Have you checked the clearance physically with the clutch actuator as in is it pushed up firmly against the clutch fork arm? Did you also visually check if there is a hole in the clutch fork arm? Have you checked the connectors that relate to clutch actuator and gear selector motor for corrosion? Also continuity as in possible cut wiring at the crimp connections? Just things to check....Hope this helps.... Yes I checked this wiring around the scoop and apparently looked fine, also cleaned the connectors of the cluct actuator, gear selector motor and gear position sensor with contact cleaner. The rod of the clutch actuator is in contact with the clutch fork, and the ajustment with the MB Star was succesfully, showing 28%. But didnt take the actuator off to check if there is a hole on the fork. The continuity should be checked between the connectors of the gear box (actuator, selector motor and gear sensor) and the ECU connectors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 5 hours ago, cregi said: The continuity should be checked between the connectors of the gear box (actuator, selector motor and gear sensor) and the ECU connectors? This is only done if you think that there is a bad wire or broken wire between these items. Do not probe the ECU as it holds a charge and IF you accidentally short two pins, you will be buying a new ECU...ask me how I learned this lesson! I only suggested to probe the wire before the connector and then the pin inside the connector where it mates with which ever item it is plugged into. I have seen a wire or connector have the crimp cut through the wire which breaks the path for the signal. IF you want to check the continuity of the wiring harness it'll take you a long time, again ask me how I know...lol. Not a fun job at all. You also need to find a wiring diagram of the ECU connector and which pin there goes to which connector. IF you wish you could just check ECU connector for corrosion but don't try and clean it as that is how I shorted out my pins! I used contact cleaner and a toothbrush thinking that I couldn't short out anything using plastic materials, yet it happened in the foam as I brushed the pins trying to clean some white corrosion off 3 pins. It's very risky! You could take gear selector off and see what it looks like internally. it's just a motor....but take care all the same. I'll ask you the usual question....have you checked every ground pin in the engine compartment? Have you cleaned each eyelet and not just looked at it and thought it was clean...? Where did you get the STAR done at, a dealership or a private person? Just asking to see if you had to spend large money to get this done? Why didn't you remove the actuator? What condition is the rod in as in rusted or not, clean or not? I would take it off and look inside to make 100% sure it isn't popping through the clutch fork arm. You don't "need" to reteach it as long as it's hand pressure against the clutch for arm...it'll be fine. I'd be doing this first imho, then ground issues, then wiring... Keeping it simple first so to speak. Just watch you don't snap the smaller bolts or you will be drilling and re-tapping them. Not a big deal if you know how to do it imho, just a pain in the ASS Plus you can clean the actuator and lube it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolinor Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 If you have easy access to a Star system you can do a lot of diagnosis with it related to gear changing and clutch movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cregi Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 13 hours ago, Mjolinor said: If you have easy access to a Star system you can do a lot of diagnosis with it related to gear changing and clutch movement. So, a part from reading the error codes, how to do that diagnosis? Could you explain me the steps to follow? I have a friend who has the Star , but he is not a professional and I am not sure if he knows the full capabilities of the MB Star. So a kind of guide would be very welcomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cregi Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 14 hours ago, Willys said: I'll ask you the usual question....have you checked every ground pin in the engine compartment? Have you cleaned each eyelet and not just looked at it and thought it was clean...? I have checked the ground cable that goes from the chassis to the gearbox, where the xhaust bracket is screwed, in fact I added a 25mm2 section cable between these two points to reinforce the ground, so now I have the original ground naked cable plus the new cable. I have visually checked the earth conection in the right wheel arc, but didnt dismount it to do a better inspection and clean it. 14 hours ago, Willys said: This is only done if you think that there is a bad wire or broken wire between these items. Do not probe the ECU as it holds a charge and IF you accidentally short two pins, you will be buying a new ECU...ask me how I learned this lesson! I only suggested to probe the wire before the connector and then the pin inside the connector where it mates with which ever item it is plugged into. I have seen a wire or connector have the crimp cut through the wire which breaks the path for the signal. IF you want to check the continuity of the wiring harness it'll take you a long time, again ask me how I know...lol. Not a fun job at all. You also need to find a wiring diagram of the ECU connector and which pin there goes to which connector. IF you wish you could just check ECU connector for corrosion but don't try and clean it as that is how I shorted out my pins! I used contact cleaner and a toothbrush thinking that I couldn't short out anything using plastic materials, yet it happened in the foam as I brushed the pins trying to clean some white corrosion off 3 pins. It's very risky! I just unplugged the connectors from the ECU, sprayed some contact cleaner on tboth sides the ECU and the cable connector and plug them again. I found the pin out of the ECU so my idea was to unplug again the connectors from the ecu and check continuity of the wires between the connector that goes to the ECU and the connectors that goes to the gearbox sensors and actuators. 14 hours ago, Willys said: Where did you get the STAR done at, a dealership or a private person? Just asking to see if you had to spend large money to get this done? Why didn't you remove the actuator? What condition is the rod in as in rusted or not, clean or not? I would take it off and look inside to make 100% sure it isn't popping through the clutch fork arm. You don't "need" to reteach it as long as it's hand pressure against the clutch for arm...it'll be fine. I'd be doing this first imho, then ground issues, then wiring... Keeping it simple first so to speak. Just watch you don't snap the smaller bolts or you will be drilling and re-tapping them. Not a big deal if you know how to do it imho, just a pain in the ASS Plus you can clean the actuator and lube it well. A friend of mine has the Star , so I didnt spend any money in that. We didnt remove the actuator beacuse it looked fine, and well positioned agains the clutch fork so we decided to just make the electronic adjustment, lube it with some white lithium grease in spray and try it. But yeah proabably the next step is to remove it and have a look at the fork arm. I also got another actuator to exchange it, but not sure about it because it lactually looks worse than my current one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolinor Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 It's been too long since I used it for me to be specific. I tend to use Delphi even though I have a Star system. Star is really crap software. Somewhere in there are actuations and it will let you change gear and give you the positional numbers related to it and the clutch will do the same. It also tells you all the sensor outputs and stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cregi Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 Thank you. Is the Delphi (chinese) capable of doing that too? And even log data for a run so later you can analyse it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolinor Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 It is not as capable as Star but it will log data and give real time information plus some actuations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 IU have a STAR and hate using it as it is so complicated IF you do not use it daily I find. I always forget how to go the the area I want to test or diagnose so it takes 5 times as long as a good mechanic would take. Plus seeing as it probably started out life in German it isn't what I would call straight forward as in how to locate the different issues. Yes if you know what you are supposed to be looking for exactly then perhaps it would be far more useful to you but not being a trained mechanic I stumble using it. I also do not understand enough about what each sensor is doing and what read-outs you should be expecting so again it isn't an easy solution. I would really love to be able to find a written manual in English that tells you what you should be looking for or expected to see at each test position. My STAR is also as slow as the slowest snail...it takes a long time for it to do anything so I get frustrated fast with it and say to hell with it. But I doubt there is a better unit out there to diagnose our specific vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjolinor Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 It is not that I can't use it, it is crap software. It is bloated and slow and takes over the computer completely so it is hard to use the computer for anything else. The biggest problem with it is that it runs on a Micro$hite base so I have to dedicate a laptop to car stuff as it is the only thing I use Windo$e for and Windo$e doesn't do anything well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cregi Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 (edited) Ok thank you for the information. I am considering buying a Delphi. Edited October 2, 2023 by cregi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobCDI Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Final update, It turns out that the clutch was just wearing, I adjusted the actuator by feel, (loosened the 3 bolts) moving it closer to the clutch. Now the car is working flawlessly. In future i will either have to change the clutch plate if it naturally wears out with use, or if the rod pushes through the fork ill weld a nut on the end of the actuator rod. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobCDI Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 (edited) Double post******** Edited January 21 by RobCDI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getfuzzy Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 In an attempt to avoid punch thru on the clutch fork on my low mileage 450, I cut threads (10 mm?) on the actuator rod and screwed on a nylon acorn nut. I checked it after a few thousand kms and it showed no visible wear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 18 hours ago, Getfuzzy said: In an attempt to avoid punch thru on the clutch fork on my low mileage 450, I cut threads (10 mm?) on the actuator rod and screwed on a nylon acorn nut. I checked it after a few thousand kms and it showed no visible wear. I have to make an acorn nut as my shaft is so badly pitted from rust build-up it's starting to look like an arrow...lol. I hadn't thought about a nylon material just metal or brass etc...Hmmmm...? I have some very hard industrial material to stick on the lathe....thanks....time to make a mess of my garage with turnings...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 is there an image of the acorn nut available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getfuzzy Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Here you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getfuzzy Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) I also bought a couple of brass acorn nuts in case the nylon ones wore down too quickly, but so far not much wear. This may be that the fork wasn't rusty or damaged before I switched. My other 450 has about double the mileage at 60,000 kms. It hasn't been changed over yet so I may see more wear on the nut. If that's the case I have thought about putting a pin hole in the nut and putting some grease in it so when it's tightened up a bit some grease will ooze out and lube it. That means snugging up the nut every few thousand kms but at least you won't have to take it off. I will add a regular nut to secure the acorn nut from moving (cut extra threads on the spare rod so lots of room). Edited February 25 by Getfuzzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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