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Hi All

The battery maintainer quit working while the Canada one was stored for the winter.  Of course the battery went completely flat.

When I realized what was going on I charged the battery and started the car drove up and down the street to get the engine warm.

Now whenever I turn off the key, the park lights come on and stay on till the battery goes dead.  

Any help would be appreciated.

Alan

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  • 1 month later...

OK, first off, check all your grounding pins for corrosion. There are many to find. There are a few places to check for corrosion that may be the issue..? I found corrosion in many places when restoring my car and or when I first took ownership of it. Is there any signs of water ingress under the windshield on the inside of the car as in water trails through the dust etc..? I found corrosion in my trans-canada addition to the car that silver box just near the battery area that looks like a cigarette pack. Check the plug connection,then open up the case, mine was green and white inside. There is also a white 4 or 5 pin connector in the battery tray that was green. I simply removed connector and wired it in directly. Take your SAM( fuse box) down , under the left side dash near steering wheel. Don't worry about connectors they are all different and only fit one way. Open up the SAM, research this if you are worried it's semi easy. Research what to look for and how to fix it. There is a row of 10 or 12 pins on the circuit board that are well known to cause lighting and fuel pump issues. They get cold solder issues where they develop cracks around the actual pins in the board that do not make a solid connection any more and require you to de-solder the pin and re-solder it to repair it. IF it has caused more damage you can add a jumper wire to repair the area it connects to the connector or board. This is well documented. There are "fies" for this to never happen again by adding relays and using the same pins to tell the relay to turn on instead of the power coming from the board and over heating it again. IF that makes any sense....?  Research it and you'll see what I'm talking about. But start with the grounding pins around the light area, battery area, SAM area Take them apart and check each eyelet for corrosion between eyelets. and on the pin itself. These cars are notorious for ground problems. Also check the main grounding strap running from the engine to the body in the engine bay, well know to disintergrate.
Good luck and keep us informed , we're here to help if we can.

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I have this exact issue with our 2006 passion. We came home yesterday and the park lights were on when the car is off. Ended up disconnecting the battery for now as nothing will turn them off. This car has never been winter driven and always been garaged, corrosion is not the issue as all cables mentioned here are look like new. 
Since these lights are stuck on even while the headlights are on, Is this a stuck relay on the SAM unit? and if so which one would it be as that can be R&R'd

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29 minutes ago, Shamus2006 said:

I have this exact issue with our 2006 passion. We came home yesterday and the park lights were on when the car is off. Ended up disconnecting the battery for now as nothing will turn them off. This car has never been winter driven and always been garaged, corrosion is not the issue as all cables mentioned here are look like new. 
Since these lights are stuck on even while the headlights are on, Is this a stuck relay on the SAM unit? and if so which one would it be as that can be R&R'd

First off, welcome to the site....
Most of the time the corrosion comes from a leaky windshield from what I have seen and heard. But...you won't know until you open up both the Transport Canada silver box near the battery to see if it has been compromised and then the SAM to see if you have those cold solder pins or worse a burned connection at the plug and board. All common for these cars.  Some people say you can even get condensation without a leak and also fumes from your battery that create corrosion near the battery area.....? 
Again you won't know until you open up these two units as they control lighting. Transport Canada added the silver box because they decided that the indicator lights were too close to the headlights and forced the dealerships to add this box which is seriously tied into the whole system as it can't be removed from what I have found out. I would remove it in a heartbeat if i could. One less thing to worry about.  I have never heard of a relay inside the SAM going bad but yes it could happen.

Sorry to go on.....hope this helps.  Let us know what you find and how you managed to resolve your issue.

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Thanks for the reply.

Pretty sure the windshield is not leaking, the AC however may be the suspect. I concur the relay thing was a shot in the dark having not gotten into one of these before. This pretty daunting stuff that I really don't want to mess up any more as, - well, the wife loves the little guy very much.

 

In the TC box I found everything factory fresh, however upon getting the SAM opened up I did find a little corrosion (not bad like some out there) but considering the size of everything in there It could be enough to do something. Corrosion was only on this board and seemingly only on this side of it - all else looks perfectly clean. 

Anyhow, I removed the bit of bluish fungal stuff and after cleaning it up with a soft brush and sensor cleaner it looks like this. The traces look good, then I carefully read resistances across the bottom row from the end of the trace to the bottom side of the.... thingy's at the bottom. All came in at 3 on the 20,000 ohm setting but the two left most (where things were fuzzy) on the left set read 6 and 8. As they all look to do the same thing my starting was assuming they are BUT that is just a guess. You can see there is still discoloration there.  Looks like a real trick to deduce what the components are and a bigger one to R&R if needed. Hate to change out a whole SAM for that.

Remounted and tried the SAM and  no change
Thanks for any ideas
Cheers

 




Smart SAM box  (2).JPG

Edited by Shamus2006
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Did you unfold it by taking out the middle plastic tray so to speak....if you didn't then you need to re-do it as you didn't get to the row of bad pins.
Just as a side note, have you looked at the white connector in the battery box to see if it has corrosion? Have you also checked the grounding pins, one to the upper left of the SAM and another to the left of the battery box. Take the eyelets off and clean between them. They may look good at a glance but i have seen them look great but wgite and green between a few eyelets.

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I tried to unfold the unit but only took it so far as it seemed pretty stiff and didn't want to break it, but it will be out again shortly so will do that.  I will tackle the other locations tomorrow as well.

Thanks very much
S

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Take a shot of the flexible sections of the SAM and post them and we'll let you know if they are as bad as some we have opened.  I personally haven't had one I couldn't open and work on without issue.  I have opened over a dozen if not more.

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Picture and report time. The SAM is back out and pictures to follow - there may be multiple posts because of the 2Mb limit but I think detail is important. in order of appearance
1) The battery area  (also a picture) is good. the only corrosion is on the battery hold down clamp, all the electrical is clean and well attached. 
2,3 The SAM opened up and checked the traces with a very bright light and all look fine, not even much degradation on the fabric.
4, looking on the back side of where the little corrosion was there is... nothing, clean again.

1 Battery Compartment 2  .jpg

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Mine had a white connector inside the battery box forward left side if memory serves me well that was corroded....you can't see it with battery in.

 

Have you taken those negative grounding pins apart and  checked between eyelets? Also the same with the neg battery terminal wire where it attaches to floor?

 

What is the black wire with the inline fuse for?

 

Does your battery have a breather hose attached or isn't it a wet battery? IF it does make sure it has it connected to the outside, those fumes create corrosion.

 

Looks like your car has the front electrical plug in for the block heater and inside ceramic heater as I can see a 3 prong plug. It usually goes to an in-car heater either under the seat of under the dash...?

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The site is blocking another picture upload so will try and put a drop box link in and see if that works

Pictures here:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/q7tf1j1sisrulgr0i5hyr/AGefrkfyfAjOke60IsPfecc?rlkey=0cgqg6lvrdsthcl30d4kyz9yz&st=f890ej5w&dl=0

 

So, having worked on some old corvette wiring that looked like it had been at sea most of its life and fell apart in your hands, this looks really nice. much more delicate though.  Most of the SAM and electrical looks to be good and generally he (Mouse) is pretty well preserved, but without knowing where on the SAM the lights are (and how) they are controlled I am thinking it is going to be tough to nail down exactly where this fault may be...
Thanks again for any idea's  Cheers

 

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Just to go back on the questions posted while I was battling (trying) uploading pictures

I pulled the battery and... there is a white connector and it is a bit green so I will acid wash and neutralize it and see what we get. If serviceable it will get stuffed with Dielectric grease if not I will replace it. I have to admit I would have never have looked for an unprotected connector in a battery well. Thank You much on that one, wow

I pulled the chassis ground and others and they were good (not perfect though), so cleaned them up and put dielectric grease on all of them on reassembly.

The black wire with the fuse is his battery tender connection. It leads to a plug that sits under the carpet where it is easily pulled out and plugged in during winter. Saves pulling the foam brick.

The battery is a sealed one so "should" not give much in the way of fumes, there isn't any vent tube outlet on it either. I remember the original Smart battery was vented though, that died only 2 years ago. I would love better venting in there regardless, sealed areas for batteries are bad (corvettes had them behind the drivers seat - utterly disastrous)

 

I was wondering what the 120v plug was for, it was tucked away under there. No sign of an interior heater and we have owned him since near new. Maybe just ready for the option?

 

Thanks again, I'm off to clean or repair a white connector and back shortly

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Others will chime in if I’m wrong.  I believe the white connector has something to do with warning lights in the eyebrow where the water in fuel light, seatbelt and door ajar lights are.  Most just cut out the connector and solder the wires together if the connector is corroded. 

Edited by Nigel
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So, the wires in the battery compartment are nicely put back together with solder and heat shrink, (thanks for the purpose of them too) also went thought the other thread on solder joints and after a very lengthy and unexciting inspection my SAM looks... just fine.

What so is odd here is that normal protocol in wiring functions is that everything will safe to an off position. That is to say if it is broken it stops working. This parking light issue is the other way around. Doesn't that say that somehow something is telling something to be "on"? and if so what is it... It covers 3 fuses as the left right and dash lights are all fused separately (probably because of the European park light protocols).

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OK, so the old school way is to remove all fuses from SAM and replace them one at a time until the issue shows itself, then you will at least know where to start your hunt. I hate this method as it is so time consuming but it will show parasitic drains etc.

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So, the circuits are 5,6 and 11. Tracing all of these in and out of the SAM shows that all these circuits have no relays or interruptions on the board itself. They come in though a plug, though the fuses and out to another plug. As all these traces are good and undamaged this implies that the SAM is not the issue, it has to be somewhere else.

Just an a side, My wife says that sometimes when it was wet out there was an occasional click (like a relay) behind the spedo that had no connection to anything else going on in the car. I will check the switches in the stalks etc.

When putting the SAM back together I put dielectric grease on the slightly oxidized parts to seal them and added 2 small drain holes to the bottom of the SAM so water can not build up in there. Although now proficient at removing and replacing it, I would like to bid it fare well for a while.

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@Henry Hey Alan,

 

Did you figured out your issue? If not, I’ll be coming down to Vancouver the end of August. If you haven’t figured out by then, let me know, and I’ll come take a look.

 

BTW, did u check those clip fuses on the side of the SAM? If they’re in the wrong position, they will backfeed and power up the SAM. Also, check your EBox for corrosion as it controls all your lighting.

 

Izzy

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So with all back together I took it for a little drive and the car got itself together. I was a little concerned after the SAM sitting on the bench for a few weeks but it figured out it was a smart car... As expected the park light issue is still there. I did not initially put the clip fuses back in the same spot but have now. ( am guessing that half is straight power and the other half switched. I am going to open up the column and pod to see if there is anything obvious there.

One thing changed though, the "left your lights on" chime now dings when the ignition is turned off. It was silent before even though the lights were on.

Thanks for the offer to visit, If you head to Van via Calgary I am actually not far off the #2 north of cow town. Hopefully though we can find it before then.

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Further update,  unplugging the turn signal and light stalk does nothing. If it was the stalk switch that should break the circuit and turn off the lights. So the next question is... what is between the stalk switch and the SAM?  The gauge of wire on the stalk switch would indicate it is probably just signalling to somewhere.

Is there a resource for a full (as possible) wiring diagram? I searched on the net and it turns up little with any detail.
If there is a dedicated relay... where it might be?

Thanks everyone.

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