Alternator Replacement-help Please!

[gauchorojo 1]

Hey folks,Bugger had what seems to be an alternator failure on my way to work yesterday morning. I noticed on my SGII that the voltage was only reading 11.8v, no matter what I did with the throttle and accessories, so I turned around and went back home to swap vehicles. When I got home, the battery light came on.Last night, I checked for any fuses, battery connections and anything else obvious to me. No joy. I banged on the alternator once or twice, for good measure, and cranked it, but the voltage was again, barely above 11v, and the battery light was on.I concluded I have dead alternator. One can not get to the electrical plug without first removing the thing... I proceeded to remove it, to take it to have it checked out at an Autozone. I removed the rear rh wheel, wheel well panel, both accessory belts, removed the bracket where the alternator belt is adjusted, and removed the top pivot bolt. I expected the alternator to come right off, and it looked like it would have come off easily, without much trouble with interfering structure. But alas, it was not so! It pivots easily in its place, but there must be something else holding it in. It was late, so I had to quit for the moment.Can anyone clue me in on what I am so obviously missing, pleeeeease? BTW, A square nut, which fits on the alternator's pivot mount bolt, fell off while I was trying to "encourage" the part to come off...My WIS is no longer working for some odd reason, so I have no tech data to refer to. I searched here and at evilution's site to no avail.Any help will be greatly appreciated.Cheers,

[42Kruiser 0]

I think that wis would tell you to unscrew the bolt for the generator on the main carrier assembly (between Alt and other pulley) and take the adjustment bracket off and the Alt should come out. Did you remove the main pivot bolt ??? is it catching on the bracket where this fits??? should I shut up and just hold the light????

[gauchorojo 1]

Thanks, GlennI did have the adjustment bracket removed, and the pivot bolt also came off easily, but the alternator will not slide off its fitment. It seems to be catching between the two knobs where the pivot bolt goes through... It pivots, but it wont slide off!I can't imagine having to force it out of there... It would be heck fitting the new one in, if that's necessary...I don't know...I'll try again tonight, when I get home...I priced a new one in Germany at 212 Euros, plus tax...HELP!smartless for now,

[42Kruiser 0]

Might just be a little crud or corrosion build-up in there, spray with some "set me free" lube.Glenn????

[smart142 605]

Did you call?

[Gent 1]

This might help: http://www.smartz.co.uk/showpost.php?p=68669&postcount=1

Sounds like a bugger of a job.

Some of his missing photos are here: http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e240/cruicky68/

[gauchorojo 1]

Y'all,Thanks very much indeed for all the replies!I soaked the area with Aerokroil last night. If rust/gunk was the problem, it will be gone by the time I get home this evening. Sorry for the miss-ID, 42Kruiser and smart142. I get easily confused these days...Gent, your post was a big help, in that (1) it confirmed no other brackets/bolts exist (2) it shows the electrical leads (3) it suggests the removal of the oil sump to facilitate refitment. I have on hand a new oil sump with the drain plug, so this would be the ideal time to replace it too, huh? And I too think it NOT necessary to remove eng/tranny. Its a challenging job, but certainly not beyond an average but determined DIY'er...With this information I believe I can get to it and have it removed this evening. Then to wait for my parts to come from Europe... A good friend is picking up a bunch of parts for me at the smart centre in Kaiserlautern on 2/17.Meanwhile, I will get more reacquainted with Kaiser, my 1985 MB 300 CDT coupe. It gets only 28mpg, but for a 20+ year old car, its not too bad...But I will miss Bugger though,I'll post how I fare on this tomorrow.Cheers,Serge

[Gent 1]

I like all the mid 80s Mercedes. I nearly bought an 85' 500 SEC a little while ago, but the boss thought it was too "y-chromo".Let us know how it goes!

[gauchorojo 1]

The alternator is off and getting checked!After being enlightened by the info y'all provided, my 15-year-old son and I worked together and removed the offending part...It did require some effort, though. Even though I had the mounting ears on the casing soaking with Aerokroil for about 24 hrs, it was very tight still. At first I thought there must be something else holding on to it, but when I placed my largest pry bar on it, it began to give a little, and then a little more, until it came lose.I then turned it with the pulley upwards, so I could get to the connectors. I expected to find three wires, as shown on the link that Gent posted (Thanks again, BTW), but I found that on Bugger, there were two wires with round terminals on one stud, and then a connector plug with two small wires, a green one and a white one. I found the best way to remove the nut from the stud was with an 8mm 1/4" drive socket, a swivel, and two 6" extensions mounted on the ratchet. It came off easily. The connector plug had to be squeezed to unlatch a locking tab, while pulling at the same time. I did this with an extra long pair of needle nose pliers. It was then completely free to move about.After contemplating and trying a bunch of times to remove it via the area next to the strut and wheel well, it came off after I rotated it completely around, with the pulley facing inboard. It took some contorsionist/gymnast twists and turns, but it finally came off.I high-fived my son and asked him, "What did you learn, Jesse?" He said "Daddy, I learned to keep trying, and to not give up too easily." I slept very well that night.Yesterday, I went to a couple of car parts places, but neither could load test Bugger's alternator, because they said they had no specs/diagrams for it, and that it was the kind of alternator that takes in an input of 12v from the battery, before it puts out its charge. I did find an alternator and starter shop that was very interested in testing and replacing a potentially bad diode in the internal voltage regulator. I left it with them, while they try to get the specs and diagram from Bosch.I enjoyed talking with the technicians there about smart cars, alternative sources of fuel and energy, Nikola Tesla, Thomas Edison, etc. I think I made new friends and they earned a customer. But I still don't know for certain the alternator is at fault, though I have a strong suspicion it is.I will try to post some pictures I took, but I haven't done that before and I am not very savvy with these things...Cheers,

[Gent 1]

Good pics and description, thanks! I wonder if our alternator needs to be different because of the diesel engine. I'm just trying to decide if it would need to be stronger or could be lighter duty than the petrol. I guess with compression-ignition we wouldn't need as much juice as a petrol. Unless glowplugs are greedy monsters. Hmmm.I'd be curious to know. I've installed big alternators on a couple of vehicles I've owned, just because I tend to put a lot of accessories on em' - especially the off-roaders I've owned.

[gauchorojo 1]

You are welcome, GlennI've been taking a lot of help from this site since I bought Bugger, and maybe this post will help someone else in the future. The only other time I posted anything of help to others was the story of my purchase of Bugger, and its legal registration in the US.I read in another post a coment from Bil Gladstone stating that the CDI's alternator is a heavier-duty alternator than the gasser's are. It does make sense...

[Gent 1]

I should have known Bil would've looked into that. I remember a battery conversation now...

[Speedie 4]

I see you all ready twigged on the fact that before you go an spend money on a new one - take it in to an auto electric place (i.e. not NAPA ) - most times they can rebuild the unit for a lot less than new - sometimes it as simple as a diode burnt out. Given that most of the components are common Bosch other than the housing they may have the necessary parts. We are really lucky here in town - there is a good shop (the owner served his apprenticeship under my Dad) - they can rebuild damn near anything.From the diagram I have - it looks like it has a internal voltage regulator - some european alternators had an issue of burning out diodes. Other issue is a bad ground connection (you mentioned some corrosion). Volvo marine units had this issue and you could almost buy a smart for what they want for a new replacement unit!Diesels typically have bigger alternators for a couple of reasons - one they turn over slower - Alternators like to really be whizzing along before they put out a full current - same reason police cars and taxis have bigger ones - in their case they spend a lot of time idling.Second diesels need more omph to turn them over - hence the need for a bigger battery and a bigger alternator to get the battery up prior to the next start.Cheers,Cameron

[ValgardForkbeard 2]

Similar experience with fixing/replacing a starter on a plymouth voyager; dealer and various after market parts places didn't list any parts, just replace the entire starter. A friend who is a retired auto shop teacher listened to my discription of the problem, told me what part I needed, and sent me to an auto electrics shop. He said the part was about $2 (turned out it had gone way up in price, now $3), and I changed it without even removing the starter.The dealers make a tidy profit selling us new parts, and even more for installing them for us. The aftermarket shops make a profit selling us rebuilt parts for a good price (half to two thirds of new), giving us a few bucks core charge for the old parts, and then paying a few bucks to have it rebuilt. And some of them will even let us pay them to install the rebuilt parts.Pulling the alternator on my MR2 was a similar experience to your smart; after pulling the pivot bolt, it didn't want to come out at first. I had a Clymer manual for the car, so at least it showed pics of what to remove. The other thing is that the manual listed that to get the alternator out of the car, the exhaust system and an engine mount cross member had to be removed to drop the alternator out the bottom. I kind of looked at that, and decided that it was too much work. From the top, grabbed the radiator reservoir, yanked it up and out, then reached down and pulled out the alternator.Good luck with everything, and I hope you get your smart back on the road soon.MG

[gauchorojo 1]

Thanks for all the replies!I am still waiting to learn if my alternator is indeed bad. The shop where I left it is waiting to hear from Bosch, as they need the diagram and specs BEFORE they can hook it up to a load tester.Speedie, can you send me a copy of the diagram you mentioned in your post?TIA,

[Speedie 4]

I can try to send it - they don't translate well into a post.Cheers,Cameron

[gauchorojo 1]

Cameron et al, The shop did not get a reply from Bosch yet. If you can send me a wiring diagram, it would be great!TIA,Serge Tredgaucho@yahoo.com

[Speedie 4]

These aren't great - hope they can help a bit.

Cheers,

Cameron

[gauchorojo 1]

Thanks a bunch, Cameron!I sent your info to the shop. Hopefully soon I will find out if I have a shorted field or a simple bad diode in the internal voltage regulator.I will post the results and the end of the replacement job as soon as I get it done, but it probably wont be until the end of next week, due to time constraints...What a helpful forum this is!Thanks to all,Serge T

[gauchorojo 1]

What a blasted job this is!I am fitting a new alternator after determining the old one was shorted. I removed the oil sump to get better access, as suggested in the link to smartz.co.uk. It made life a lot easier.I had to use a bottle jack and a piece of 2by4 to push the new one into its very tight fitment. I inserted the pivot bolt, but attaching the square nut to the end of the bolt is proving to be the greatest challenge so far.I emailed the creator of the smartz.co.uk post that you all linked me to, hoping to see the special tool he made for this very job of presenting the square nut inot place. The photos in the post are not coming up, and the photobucket link does not include them.Any help would be appreciated.Challenged but not defeated,S.T.

[gauchorojo 1]

Success finally!Removed the alternator. PLaced the pivot bolt's nut in place with some silicone RTV. Inserted the pivot bolt while holding the nut. Waited for the RTV to set. Removed bolt. Reinstalled alternator, again, using bottle jack, 2by4, and rubber mallet, to drive it into place. Inserted pivot bolt, and, amazingly, it went in the very first time. I renewed the belt tensioner and belts, while there.Since it had taken several days to get the new alternator on hand, I did a couple of minor mods/repairs I've been wanting to do:1. Installed OE fog lights. Placed OE switch in Euro spot. I kept the dimmer switch placing it under the panel where the fog switch, interior light, and lighter are. It retained its function and even looks like it belongs there. Didn't get to do the fogs fine-tune aiming, but it's ok for now.2. Modified the side markers to blink. Very straightforward instructions here and at evilution's. I like this new feature as I think it adds some driving safety also.3. Installed OE cruise control stalk. I will need to get the closest smart dealer to add the TAN code now.4. Repaired the battery hold down clamp. Its bolt stud had broken off. I drilled two tiny holes to the edge of the lip next to where the stud was, and weaved in a piece of safety wire I twisted in to secure the clamp.5. Renewed the oil sump with one with a magnetic drain plug. No more waiting for the Topsider to finish vaccuming the oil!6. Added a Wolverine heater pad, which I connected to the cable that was in the battery compartment. I routed this cable out of the battery compartment and connected it to the heater pads cable in the undercarriage, securing it all to a bracket up there. I will post pics of this later. This way I can use the OEM plug in the front of the car nest to the OAT probe.It was all back together late this morning, and when I took it for a test drive, it all worked as hoped for.Thanks to everyone for your help. This is a great place. I felt like I had a bunch of you cheering me on as I tackled this unexpectedly challenging task.Happy motoring!

[smart142 605]

Good for you! There's always a lot of satisfaction being able to get a difficult job done .. Did you take pictures? I've used the Wolverine oil pan heater since Nov 2006- a good product!

Edited March 8, 2008 by smart142

[Gent 1]

I find a lot of similarity between the smart community and the air-cooled vw community. A lot of DIY-ers, a lot of modders, and a lot of enthusiasm.

[gauchorojo 1]

Thanks for the kind words, y'all!Besides the pics posted before I only took a couple more, and they are not very good. They mostly show how I routed the power chord to the oil pan heater. I will cut and neatly splice the chord later on. I dont like the spaghetti look... There is one showing how I installed the fog light and dimmer switches. I will have to split the upload to a couple of posts, I think.Glenn,One of my next projects will be to restore the Euro standard to the tail light assembly, including the rear fog light that is switched at the turn signal stalk. I noticed your signature indicates you had this mod done on your smart? Can you share any, ahumm, "light" on this project? Maybe we should start a new thread for that, too...I am so glad this unforeseen difficulty with the alternator is OVER!Cheers,

Edited March 11, 2008 by gauchorojo

[gauchorojo 1]

More pics,