Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
dieselkiki

Used Cooking Oil Running

49 posts in this topic

Alex... I'm sorry. I doubted about your statement about the limp mode. You was right!This weekend we left for some mountain hicking far away from home. There was alot of hill roads and at almost 200km from home I went down a hill and as I entered in a little village, I used decompression braking by downshifting as usual. But when I started at the "stop", wohoho... NOOOOOO!!! The car has became slow as a pig! The limp mode was now obvious but strangely, there was no DTC logged or active. I tryed to make a "load" on the sam box by connecting my 12v test light on the 10th pins of the N-11 connector but that was useless. The limp mode was still effective. So I had to dealt with a powerless CDI smart for the rest of the weekend across mountain and hills. My right foot hurts because I unconsciously pushed too hard on the trottle pedal. I drove the car during all the weekend and not a single DTC or check engine light displayed.Back home, I modified my electrical setup. I followed your advices and I drive my relay by the 10th pin of N-11 connector. After the modif I performed a first road test who was not succesful. I was realy bothered about this constant limp mode but when I performed a second road test, for an unknown reason, the power was back!! So, thank you very much Alex and thanks to posted and shared your experience. That was realy helpful even if I still don't understand how the ECU can know that the fuel flow is still there when I release the trottle pedal. I'll investigate!Thank you! ;)

Edited by dieselkiki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The HP pump has valves that don't allow flow without a positive feed. It doesn't suck! My theory is that at high RPM with no throttle input it shuts off the LP pump as an additional safeguard against a run-away engine. Stuck-open injector scenario. When the fuel rail pressure doesn't drop off, it limps and sets the code. It doesn't measure low pressure fuel directly, but it apparently knows. Did you get the code # and description? Is it P0202?I'm not sure about the wisdom of that programming, appears to invite cavitation, fuel boiling and pump damage if you have long hills. I'd love to know the threshold values, probably a certain RPM for long enough. 4K for a minute will do it for sure. Maybe I'll develop the habit of giving it a little throttle periodically when descending long hills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. There was no codes. I never saw any P0202 unfortunately. Absolutely no codes. :( Your theory is very interesting. It's could be realy plausible. I could hear the fuel pump relay (click) in the sam box when I downshift at high RPM (above 3k). The fuel pump is realy disabled at that time. You are maybe right when you write that it's could be the fuel pressure sensor on the common rail who informs the ECU or sam box of the overpressure when the engine load is "0" at high RPM. I would like to know how all this fuel system work.

Edited by dieselkiki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am still driving around with a test lamp telling me whether low pressure fuel feed pump is running. The light has been permanently lit at all times for a week as long as ignition is on and I have yet to see the feed pump cutting out.I have also measured amount of fuel being returned to the tank with engine off but feed pump running - 50 litres per hour. This is quite a lot compared to the fuel consumed by engine, around 2 litres per hour when driving economically and perhaps 0.5 litres per hour when engine is idling.So why would engine control unit want to turn off feed pump when going down hills and engine braking? I can't see why but can name lots of reasons why you want feed pump to run. Letting feed pump run to cool high pressure pump is one. Cooling the injectors is a another. Less wear on feed pump relay is a third. Etc, etc, etc.Of course less amps are drawn when feed pump is off but these amps are free when engine braking. Fuel returned to tank will probably be a lot more than 50 litres per hour when engine braking since two pump elements in the high pressure pump will still constantly pump fuel. Turn off feed pump and you may draw a vacuum in high pressure pump housing resulting in no lubrication and excessive wear to pump internals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm... it's kind of mysterious. So Tolsen, what kind of body control module you have on your CDI? Is it a sam box or the previous relay box? It's could be different for this reason!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Engine control unit commands start of fuel feed pump. Whether this command goes via a ZEE or SAM can't make much difference for the feed pump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys!Just to let you know that I actualy burnt my 120th liter of wasted cooking oil for this summer. And for a 7th year since I own this car. This engine seems to be happy to burn a light blend of cooking oil usualy. I'm realy impressed! Seriously!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's great. I've always wanted to build a "veggie car" ever since I had an old NA VW diesel a while back.I'd love to be able to find a source for used cooking oil around here. I'm curious on tolsen's used motor oil idea. I have quite a bit of used rotella and synthetic from my bikes kicking around here. I'm not sure on the environmental aspect of burning it in the car though.

Edited by WudzRydr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Better burning used engine oil in your Smart than disposing of it down your pan which some do over here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Over here we can drop it off for free at any landfill for recycling. But it usually builds up quite a bit before I make a special trip. I probably have 30L sitting in the garage now. :D I'm assuming it probably wouldn't be wise to use the oil from the smart because of all the soot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can also drop it off at any Canadian Tire, and I believe some other auto parts stores will take it as well. No charge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I drove on cooking oil (used and new), old varsol, gasoline blend, but I never used old engine oil. Someday I'll try but I expect some blue smoke behind. :unsure: I'would like to try LPG or biogaz someday too. :)

Edited by dieselkiki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not noticed any excessive smoke yet with up to 50% mix. The used engine oil must be filtered and mixed with diesel. Just pouring used engine oil directly into fuel tank will cause trouble. You must blend the fuels in a separate tank and shake or agitate to ensure a good uniform blend. Engine oil raises flash point of the fuel which may give harder start in cold weather but up to 50% seems to work fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tolsen, what kind of filter do you used to filter your wasted engine oil?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You was right Tolsen! ;) Here is my 3th oil change where I recycling the wasted engine oil in the fuel tank. 2,5L of used OW40 in 15L of diesel and the engine drive exactly the same! No difficults to start, same power and even no more smoke! No more used oil to bring to CT for recycling cause now I drive +/- 50km for free with every oil change. :lol: This engine is realy a multifuel burner!!! B)

Edited by dieselkiki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure the filter setup Tolsen uses, but I am putting together my own filter system.I will have 2 20L Jugs, first one I will put used oil taken from work (which I know isn't mixed with coolant or water) and blend with Gasoline (RUG) at a 80% Oil 20% RUG ratio. After letting sit for atleast 7 days so the crap sinks to the bottom I will sipion it off minus bottom 2-3 inches and run it through a 10 micron filter, then a 2 micron filter and into Jug #2 where it will sit until I need it. This is called Black Diesel if anyone wants to research it. I will start with a 50/50 mix of Black Diesel and Regualer #2 Diesel (from Husky).I expect to save $11-$12 a tank, which lately is monthly as we don't drive much. I will be able to make 10-15L per week so will make more than I'll use ;) I'm doing this mostly as R&D to show it's feesible and hoping to run 100% Black Diesel by next summer, and mixing for the colder months.Anyone with experience with this is welcome to chime in advice, but I don't want to see any of the "I haven't tried this but it won't work" junk. I have done hours of research and seen first hand the process and it working. Also before someone says it, I'm not using a centerfuge yet because I know the source of the oil, I will be in control of it from oil pan to fuel tank, and I am filtering to 2 micron...and not using it 100% yet.I will only be using Motor Oil and ATF that I have extracted from cars, and will be trying not to use synthetics as there are reported issues.I'd be happy to share all my part numbers for filters and filter housings to those interested. I am estimating the cost of setup to be $80 (filters and housings) and then $26 each time I replace filters (plus $25 each fuel filter in car every 10,000km or so). Fuel cost $0.30-$0.40 per Litre for Black Diesel (RUG & Filter Replacements)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Black diesel eh? Hmm... I'll read on it. Thank to sharing your experience! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just an update, I poured roughly 8L Black Diesel in the car after filtering it (10, then 2 micron), topped up the tank (overflowed actually). Will top up again Friday with the 2L or so I have left from this batch, then will mix and settle the next batch. I think I will keep topping up over the next couple of weeks to see if there's any issues.

Drove around town abit and no difference noted, other than the fuel lines on top of the engine that are normally a creamy colour are now black to show the mixture has made it to the injectors.

This batch is about 9L of 5w20 conventional oil taken from cars at work where I had contact from Drain Plug to Fuel Tank, and 2.3L Regular Gasoline from Canadian Tire Gas Bar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious. Why did you choose to avoid synthetic oils? Dom (dieselkiki) is successfully running his car on its used engine oil which is 100% synthetic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've read too many reported problems with synthetic oil, I'm sure it won't ruin anything I just have my options so I can stick with conventional as it's more common for me to get anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today was our first real trip using Black Diesel (Mixed 50/50 with Pump Diesel). 170km roundtrip averaging 3.7LHK, Mostly HWY Strong Tail/Headwind from Burlington to Niagara.

Car ran no different than on 100% Pump Diesel :)

Update: Just refilled Tank, ran full tank 50/50 with no issues(approx 430km to 5L warning), mixed another batch and dumped it in.

Edited by Bessy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey dieselkiki, I sent you a pm. I would like to chat a bit with you to have some infos about détails on how to use vegetable oïl so if ever you still are in the Smart world and still using this fuel please let me know :) I believe these days you should drive 100% diesel during winter if you did'nt store your Smart?

Thank's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

    Chatbox
    You don't have permission to chat.
    Load More