Three Bars of Death - the "impossible" problem... SOLVED

[simeybinker 3]

1 hour ago, smart142 said:

I've never done the reteach with the car running.

 

Yeah, see, that's what I thought. Actuator pushes in, and it does it's little clicky clicky. This is Andrew from Active Green + Ross - I haven't actually met the guy yet, but he sounded busy over the phone. 

 

6 hours ago, tolsen said:

See post #5.  Contains all you need to check out transmission wiring harness.

Only ignition needs be on when performing gear change teach so perhaps advisable to seek a better qualified mechanic.

 

I saw that, but I was having difficulty figuring out your coding - especially with the bottom plug (I'm familiar with all four of the others). The pin numbers are a little jumbled. 

 

But that's not the main reason for the wiring schematic - I'd like to know which two wires were cut through, what they do, and what happens if they accidentally short to one another. I'm pretty sure the big blue one is power, and the white one is a sensor, and I'm getting the sneaking suspicion the sensor was shorted and killed it (or a fuse went?).

 

thanks,

Sim

Edited December 13, 2016 by simeybinker

[tolsen 630]

I did once intend to tidy up the pinout diagram neatly on a PC but see no need since it works as is.

Bottom plug is of course main engine harness plug that connects to engine control unit.  Why is it so hard to figure that out?

[tolsen 630]

Column 1 is pin number at main ECU plug.  Column 3 is corresponing pin number at plugs to sensors and actuators.  I missed ECU pin 19 so that is why this one is out of sequence at the bottom.

[tolsen 630]

You won't be any wiser reading the wiring diagram. 

 

Both actuators have six cables.  The two fat cables are for motor power.  The four thin cables are for quadrature encoder signal.  These are the ones that fail causing all your troubles.

[tolsen 630]

Shift drum rotation sensor is also prone to failure due to owner neglecting to clean sensor seal area where it mates up with transmission.  Over time enough corrosion of transmission aluminium housing in way of sensor o-ring seal allows water to enter sensor internals causing internal corrosion damage.  Preventative cure is removing sensor and cleaning and greasing seal area.  A faulty sensor cannot be repaired.

[tolsen 630]

Transmission actuator and sensor pinout diagram in post five is correct for all Smart 450 models and Roadsters.

[tolsen 630]

You may have noticed that column four titled "colour" has eight cables marked as "thin".  These are for the quadrature encoder signal which tells ECU the position of the actuator.

[dank1945 7]

Hi,

Have you solved your problem? If you did, would you please post the solution? Sorry but I have no suggestions for you.

 

Thanks

Dan

 

[simeybinker 3]

Haven't sorted out this issue yet - the car has been sitting, but I'm revisiting it now.

 

Tolsen, can you repost your wiring diagram from post #5?

 

Both the gear selector motor and actuator check out with a bench test :| 

[tolsen 630]

7 hours ago, simeybinker said:

Haven't sorted out this issue yet - the car has been sitting, but I'm revisiting it now.

 

Tolsen, can you repost your wiring diagram from post #5?

 

Both the gear selector motor and actuator check out with a bench test :| 

Sorry, cannot.  Cannot even log on to Photobucket.

 

[simeybinker 3]

AMAZING! out to check all the wires now...

[simeybinker 3]

Well, ALL the wires check out (did test with lamp).

 

So, we don't have a real complete wiring harness around anywhere, do we?

 

Being that the wiring harness checks out, and the clutch actuator and gear motor passed their bench test (according to Evilution), I really think the only outstanding item has to do with the programmer.

 

Again, Andrew says he can't run the gear motor teach on a vehicle which "isn't running". As you may know, I have 3 bars of death right now. Any knowledge on how the program works? Can I make a clone here myself to do some testing on it? Because my only option is to have it towed back out to Uncle Glenn which is at least an hour away, and there's no guarantee he'll be able to fix it. Unfortunately my truck just died this weekend

 

thanks,

Sim

[tolsen 630]

Have you checked shift drum angle rotation sensor?

[simeybinker 3]

just checked it. According to evilution, pins 1-2 and 2-3 should range between 1.3kO and 5.4kO. I went from 1.3 up to about 5.0. Additionally, he says between 1-3, it should be 4.2kO, and I'm at 3.8. Is this the end of the world? I've checked with two separate multimeters. 

[tolsen 630]

I think the most important thing is the wiper signal should be smooth and have no jumps. 

[simeybinker 3]

Theory: the car seemed to fail abruptly when Uncle Glenn tried a transmission teach on it. Before this moment it was ok (some intermittent 3 bars of death, probably due to that wiring harness chafing). Since then, it hasn't operated.

 

Now that I've fixed the wiring harness, perhaps it will not be until I get a transmission reteach to completion, before it can operate? The only time the gear position sensor is used, is during the transmission reteach - perhaps it IS out of spec?

 

I think I'll have it towed to Uncle Glenn's... too bad my truck has died...

[tolsen 630]

Buy a Delphi and do your own gear change teach. 

[simeybinker 3]

1 hour ago, tolsen said:

Buy a Delphi and do your own gear change teach. 

 

Is there a model which is preferable? Any threads on getting a STAR clone on it?

[tolsen 630]

On 24/07/2017 at 0:49 AM, simeybinker said:

 

Is there a model which is preferable? Any threads on getting a STAR clone on it?

Delphi DS150E without Bluetooth.  Software version 2 2014.

Edited July 29, 2017 by tolsen

[simeybinker 3]

like so?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-For-DELPHI-Diagnostic-Scanner-Tool-Autocom-CDP-TCS-Car-Auto-Truck-OBD-DS150E-/332319859842?hash=item4d5fcea482:g:Yr8AAOSw7ChZeFhq

 

There's got to be a catch. This whole process has been such a pain in my butt, I expect there to be a catch. I need to flash it? install STAR on it? hack it? get a different cable? Is there any thread or tutorial on this?

[simeybinker 3]

I found this thread on the Delphi DS150E:

 

Although I don't find any indication it is capable of a transmission reteach

 

[simeybinker 3]

SOLVED!

 

I got ambitious and had it towed an hour away to Uncle Glenn's place. I had no way of easily returning to my house, short of getting the car fixed. I was fully committed. Uncle Glenn conducted the transmission reteach, and it clicked through the gears as it should. After that, it fired up very roughly, and we found the alternator was seized. a little lubricant, and a 22mm socket, and that unstuck it. It then fired up smoothly. Apparently if you interrupt the transmission reteach which a chafed wire issue, it will not start without going through that procedure again. 

 

I drove it a couple blocks, before getting pulled over by police for having an expired license plate. $200 in fines. sigh.

[smart142 605]

OWW...that's too bad!

 

Prior to doing the tranny reteach, I cleared all the codes.

Glad that things turned out ok!

[Jocko 22]

So in the end it's a good news / bad news kinda story. Glad to hear you got er running.