Attempt at 2,2 li/100 km, on a full tank 1000+ km

[bilgladstone 13]

Only 60kph on the HIGHWAY? Yikes!!I'd get run off the road around here if I tried driving on the highway at only 60kph :watchout:Bil

[100MPGUS 0]

I have no idea what that means, lolI tried some experiments today, and the lowest average (over maybe 15 km) I could get down to was 2.8. :/I dunno where the other 0.6 comes from.-Iain

ekin ria=air nike backwards...just my odd sense of humour.

[Serge 0]

I wouldn't drive 60 kmh on a busy highway. That's why I do it on sunday morning, starting early. Most of the time, there is only one car coming behind, so they just pass on left lane. This morning, it happened twice that two semis streamlining each other, were behind me while the left lane was occupied by two cars passing... and so not to force the semis to brake, I drove the «accotement» ( paved side of the highway), leaving them happy.Passing me, they must think I am in trouble, or drunk..... even a cop (police) this morning went by looking intensively at me, and went away. I didn't want them to stop me so to keep my FE perfect on that run. Limit speed is min 60 and max 100 but cops accept 120. My god... I hated myself yesterday when I honked at a woman driving too slow..... ahahah ! not funny.Driving 60 is half the speed of most (120 kmh), so I have to check my rear view mirror not to be rear ended.

[Monkhouse 0]

I don't know about others but I've actually found the best FE on the scan-guage was when when I am going around 33-34 in 5th gear. You wouldn't be able to go on the highway and would take twice as long but it might be worth a shot to make it down to the 2.2.

[Serge 0]

Do you have a smart ? With my smart, I can't go 33 kmh in 5th gear... the computer automatically changes to 4th at 35-36. But on one way you're right I beleive... I see numbers like 2,0 in 5th gear at around 40 kmh, and it is very difficult to stabilize those numbers... but and there is a but... it is ok on a flat road, but as soon there is a slight uphill, the FC goes up rapidly. I don't know if on the long run it would be possible to achieve better fuel econo in 5 th. I doubt it but I have an open mind and will sure try it .

[Duck 16]

I think you need to get one of these first, before you go any further:

Honestly though man, don't get yourself killed. I still think one of these days we ought to all rent a banked oval track (velodrome!) and have a good steady 10h+ run at some optimal speed and see what's possible.

-Iain

[Serge 0]

Don't worry duck, I won't go on the highway at these low speeds.... even at 60, it is when I feel miserable lollll !!!

20 hours of 35 kmh driving is not for me.

Concerning an explanation on 5th gear low FC, monkhouse, the reason might be fifth gear is the only one the computer accepts it to go down close to 1000 rpm instead of 1200 for all others. See a beginning of discussion on the subject : http://www.clubsmartcar.ca/forums/viewtopi...&highlight=

[Monkhouse 0]

Sarge: I do drive a smart, but the kmh I stated were off my x-guage (at plus 3%) and not the computer odometer which would look like I was driving around 35-36 which may account for it. Just read the other thread. Do you get your shift stats from when you are upshifting or downshifting? I have found that the speed that the smart will let me shift up is higher than the speed that it will automatically shift down. So I can shift up to 5th at say 39-40 (car odometer) but it doesn't downshift until around 35-36. Unsure of the RPM's. Not 100% sure that's correct, just a gut feeling I've had when driving.20+ hours of driving would be a little much and even I can see that .

[Serge 0]

You're perfectly right on everything. I didn't realize before answering too fast, the difference between smart speedo and real or adjusted speed ( SG or XG or GPS). The critical point is on downshifting ... since I hate when the computer compensate my lack of attention... and I have to give some gas fast to enter sixth again. Upshifting is higher as you say. In 6th, it downshift as low as 1225 rpm (on SG2), upshift not before 1280, and in 5th down around 1030, car shaking a bit.Lately, to be even more acurate on maintaining 6th gear at the lowest possible speed, instead of using the speedo, I used the rpm. Even on flat road, it is not all that flat, so checking the rpm, we can see the slightest change of speed of the car approching the shifting point, 1260, 1250, 1240... hum one cm more on the hand lever trottle, etc... but let's forget about it... it is for absolute maniacs.... and much fatigue !!! .....and fatigue there is even after just 200 km. So for my attempt at 2.2, I decided to make it on 2 or 3 days, like 250 km early in the morning and another 200 in the evening, and so on.... on different "circuit". No shopping meanwhile!! and hoping for nice weather 2 or 3 days in a row.

[Serge 0]

Still me and my attempt.... but it will be over soon !

Well I won't make it at 2.2 li/100. At first, I thought it would be difficult, but lately, gaining experience day after day, I beleived it would almost be easy, maybe even going down to 2.0...

I did a few practices to gain better control of my HE techniques, and they were all over my target, like : 2.326, 2.3366, 2.284 .... The second was even with tires at 44 psi all on highway and gave worse results than the first one at 29 psi half highway and half rural roads.

Today, I am on my second leg of my attempt and scangage is around these numbers. The whole thing will be over by sunday if weather allows it. Meanwhile, no fooling around with my car to keep my tank ««non-contaminated»».... bicycle time !

Here is an example of a « practice » last sunday before my present attempt. A return trip to Cacouna ( NE from St-Jean-Port-Joli), 231.1 km, wind NE 10 knots, temp. 5° to 10° (cold early morning), tire pressure 44. We can see the last 10 km being a killer, going uphill 1000 feet elevation. Total real FC was 2.34 li/100. These are scangage ajusted data:

1- Home to highway : 10 km, 2.3 li/100, max 75, avg 46.

2- Hyw to Cacouna : 106 km, 2.4 li/100, max 72, avg 53.

3- Return to SJPJ : 106 km, 2.1 li/100, max 63, avg 56.

4- Hway to home : 10 km, 4.3 li/100, max 80, avg 48.

Well, we'll see sunday.

[Monkhouse 0]

Hmm, sometimes I find the Scanguage gives me randomly poor readings for a day or so. I'm not sure if it's a problem with the guage or if the car just has bad days.Too bad to hear you won't be making it. But keep up the attempt!

[MikeT 747]

It should be easy to crack 1000 km with a sub-2.5 L/100 km number though, provided you started with a |SuperFill|

[smartzuuk 167]

Well, looks like I might have to try for a new record soon.

[Duck 16]

In what, the Volvo? Or the X90? :lol:Awesome work, Serge!! Keep at it, you'll get there!-Iain

[Serge 0]

Yeah the only way I could make it is ... if scangage is out again. It is adjusted at 25% correction now , and variations have been between 12 and 27 % . If only 12% is needed I might get 2.2, but I doubt it. There seem to be a wall at 2.3 li/100. Anyway, I don't really need 2.2, since I want to see the lowest my car can go. .... and I will pass the «baton» the «flame» to smartzuuk on monday morning... I will get 1000 km sans problèmes.

[smartzuuk 167]

Serge, at high gear/low speeds, the Scangauge accuracy is out... you would need to calibrate it for that kind of driving.So, my question, do you have pen and paper results around 2.4 to 2.5 L/100?If you do, then 1000 km is possible. Just make sure you do a super fill of at least 26 litres from 0.0My next mileage attempts will include narrow wheels on the rear. I am certain that and 44 PSI will allow me to also get a 1000 km tank, albeit not on 100% biodiesel, which has about a 10% penalty.

[smartzuuk 167]

In what, the Volvo? Or the X90?

Neither. Nor the Pathfinder, nor the Honda Civic... if you're keeping count. I'm actually driving a borrowed Tracker right now. I'll be smart again in 3 weeks........ to see how much trying I gotta do to get the record back.

[bilgladstone 13]

... albeit not on 100% biodiesel, which has about a 10% penalty.

10%?! See - I'm not following that. I haven't found this to be the case. Maybe it depends what kind of Biodiesel you use? Especially when the latest batch analysis indicates 51 cetane in the virgin soy B100 I use. I certainly don't sacrifice anything like 10%.

Puzzled...

Bil

P.S. moderator might want to split this sideline discussion to the bio~ threads.

[Serge 0]

Saturday afternoon, back from an encouraging trip (fourth leg of my attempt). The best SG results up to now. Well, I might be very close to 2.2 on the final fill-up. I won't know 'till there... considering the fluctuation of the SG. I beleive what helped was the warmer temperature and a rare light south wind. It was 19 degrees this morning compare with 5° and 12° other mornings. Starting at leg 2 ( out of 5½), I change something that will help to improve my FE, I leave my car at the bottom of the steep hill dirt driveway home, and go to my car on my bike. This last hill is a FE killer with 20 so li/100 in third gear. I never gain downhill on a cold engine what I loose uphill. So much for optimism ! You know smartzuuk, I keep a record of calibration at each fillup, but not necessarily changing the calibration on SG... since I would have to change it constantly (until now from 12% to 27%). All my results are pen and paper (p&p), except sometimes for intermediate numbers, I give SG results for comparaison purposes inside the same journey. Otherwise, even when I give SG results, they are adjusted by a certain percentage with the real p&p data at fill-up. But even for intermediate numbers.... I doubt since SG is so unstable (I think mine doesn't like french numbers.... ahah ).Some real p&p numbers were in the low range (-2.5) in testing before this final attempt, numbers like approximately (lol) 2.35, 2.3366, 2.326, 2.278, and even this morning --- but on non-adjusted scangage --- 2.036.

[Serge 0]

1063 Km, 23.8 liters, 2.238 li/100.

And now, let's go back to fast acceleration and lots of fuel consumed... well lots... let's say 3.4 li/100... but that's a lot compare to 2.4

[Duck 16]

Congratulations, Serge!!!!!! -Iain

[smart142 605]

Mind blowing!!! Nice to see the great potential of the cdi

[Serge 0]

These are the intermediate results written down from the scangage every day numbers, but adjusted by a percentage with the final pen & paper results. They are not fully accurate but fairly enough for comparaison purposes.Description of the 5½ legs :Leg 1 : Cacouna NE : wind NE 10 knots, june 7, early morning 5°C up to 12°C later, all highway except 20 km RR.Leg 2 : L'Isle-Verte NE : wind SO light, june 8 am 12°C , all highway except 41.3 km RR.Leg 3 : Beaumont SW : wind south light, june 9 am, 19°C, all highway except 16 km RR.Leg 4 : Montmagny SW : windless, june 9 pm, 23°C, all RR (rural roads).Leg 5 : Cacouna NE : wind NE 10 knots, june 10 am, 13°C , going highway and return main 2 way road.Leg 5½ : Final laps : many loops RR and up last hill home, to empty tank to 0.0 liters display.Intermediates results :Leg 1 : 231.1 km on 5.3 liters and 2.295 li/100.Leg 2 : 252.4 km on 5.75 liters and 2.278 li/100.Leg 3 : 162.3 km on 3.3 liters and 2.036 li/100.Leg 4 : 87.9 km on 1.95 liters and 2.217 li/100.Leg 5 : 237.2 km on 5,3 liters and 2.186 li/100.Leg 5½ : 92.5 km on 2.2 liters and 2.378 li/100.

[Serge 0]

Looking at all these results ( and more before the final attempt), I consider that the only way for me to improve these datas without modifications to the car, would be to drive in warmer weather. I found out warm temp. gave better numbers like legs 3 and 4. Also doing the attempt all on one day will exclude these 20 so km before engine reach 85°C normal temp., but it would be so exhausting. ( good for Eddie/3 and Duck). It would also be much kilometers before knowing if the numbers are good.

One surprise was the little difference between highway constant driving and rural roads with many stops... couldn't beleive it ! And also little difference between 44 psi tires and normal. At first, looking at the Plessisville test at 2.35 li/100 , I thought 2.0 li/100 was possible when I would put 44 psi and highway driving. That was my ultimate weapon. But it was almost the same at around 2.3 li/100. I must say Plessisville was on warm weather around 20-24.

2.4 li/100 : I consider this number to be the normal floor for my smart, in not-so-maniac FE driving.

2.2 li/100 : This number is for SE driving ( super economy) in warm weather.

2.0 li/100 : This is below the floor when there is not even a basement. It would be HE driving (hyper-economy) pushing efficient driving techniques to the extreme, or modifiing the car somewhat more than the basic 44 psi tires, or on Duck's oval racetrack.

[Duck 16]

So on leg 3 and 5 you have the record!!-Iain