SAM/fuel pump gone south?

[Tut 11]

Hi Boys,

I wondering if there is anyone on Vancouver Island with a STAR for a quick scan on my daughters car. Its an intermittent stall, no-start condition that has the fingerprints of the corroded fuel pump connection in the SAM. Ive driven it a while and finally got it to quit today so before I go rippin and tearin, thought a STAR scan might be wise. Based on what Ive read on this in here this condition can go one of many ways.

 

I did a regular scan a few weeks ago and got a P0087 code, then cleared it and drove it until failure. With this recent no-start, no codes showed with a conventional scanner. The dealer in Victoria is functionally unavailable.

I would sure take some advice on how to buy/organize a STAR set-up, too. Thanks in advance Boys. 

[Nigel 287]

The Star is unlikely to tell you if you have a bad connection at the SAM. You will see low pressure on the rail but is that caused by a bad high or low pressure pump.  Sound like you have been reading already.  This thread has some really good pictures of the SAM connections that go bad.  http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?/topic/25663-sam-woes-and-how-to-cure-them/&page=1  Unless your fuel pump connection is pristine start by doing the relay mod for the pump, lots of threads on how to do that.

As far as setting up your own Star system Izzy (stickman007) is probably the best guy here to talk to.  He just replaced his  unit that was stolen and he can advise where and where not to buy the multiplexer.

 

Nigel

 

[Willys 748]

I'll echo Nigel's response, don't waste your money and time searching for the STAR scan just yet, take SAM down, peek inside and determine if that is your problem and repair as most have done already. It is usually a simple fix but can be a slightly complicated one if things have been let go on for too long?  Still IF you are patient and skilled with a soldering iron I'll bet it can be repaired. OR simply buy a good used or new one..$$$$...!  Then you'll need the STAR to reprogram it to be able to talk to the other computers in the car before it'll run again.
As for the STAR, again IZZY is the man best to speak to.....and imho you are going on the right track getting your own if you enjoy the car and plan on keeping it for some time. IMHO 3 or 4 trips to a dealership or greedy mechanic will pay for it. 

 

Also seeing as you are sounding like someone who is concerned.....get yourself a high pressure pump rebuild kit and rebuild it before it leaves you high and dry on the side of the road like mine did. It's cheap. Also find the one if possible that includes the outer pump body 2 larger O rings as the cheaper kits do not supply them and a trip to the dealership is in order if they are compromised in any way. They are only oil seals so not as important as the rest of the rebuild kit.  Easy job just keep it seriously clean and only use clean diesel fuel as lubricant when reassembly.  Look for any leakages around the top heads of the pump for signs of issues but mine was perfectly dry before it let go.

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Willys

[Tut 11]

12 hours ago, Nigel said:

The Star is unlikely to tell you if you have a bad connection at the SAM. You will see low pressure on the rail but is that caused by a bad high or low pressure pump.  Sound like you have been reading already.  This thread has some really good pictures of the SAM connections that go bad.  http://clubsmartcar.com/index.php?/topic/25663-sam-woes-and-how-to-cure-them/&page=1  Unless your fuel pump connection is pristine start by doing the relay mod for the pump, lots of threads on how to do that.

As far as setting up your own Star system Izzy (stickman007) is probably the best guy here to talk to.  He just replaced his  unit that was stolen and he can advise where and where not to buy the multiplexer.

 

Nigel

 

Beauty. Thanks Nigel will take your advice wholly.

 

Sounds an awful lot like a no-voltage to fuel pump deal because when it comes back to life it runs perfect, light or heavy load, then quits cold like a wire fell off. First stop with your great advice, will be to check all earthing points, then on to pin#10. Be sure to disconnect ground at battery.

 

 We are so sold on these little guys we have a bunch of them in the family, we're all hooked on 10 foot u-turns in a city with small roads! So proper scanning for the fleet sounds like it could save time. Will be sure to make the ever-important report back on findings!

[Tut 11]

1 hour ago, Willys said:

I'll echo Nigel's response, don't waste your money and time searching for the STAR scan just yet, take SAM down, peek inside and determine if that is your problem and repair as most have done already. It is usually a simple fix but can be a slightly complicated one if things have been let go on for too long?  Still IF you are patient and skilled with a soldering iron I'll bet it can be repaired. OR simply buy a good used or new one..$$$$...!  Then you'll need the STAR to reprogram it to be able to talk to the other computers in the car before it'll run again.
As for the STAR, again IZZY is the man best to speak to.....and imho you are going on the right track getting your own if you enjoy the car and plan on keeping it for some time. IMHO 3 or 4 trips to a dealership or greedy mechanic will pay for it. 

 

Also seeing as you are sounding like someone who is concerned.....get yourself a high pressure pump rebuild kit and rebuild it before it leaves you high and dry on the side of the road like mine did. It's cheap. Also find the one if possible that includes the outer pump body 2 larger O rings as the cheaper kits do not supply them and a trip to the dealership is in order if they are compromised in any way. They are only oil seals so not as important as the rest of the rebuild kit.  Easy job just keep it seriously clean and only use clean diesel fuel as lubricant when reassembly.  Look for any leakages around the top heads of the pump for signs of issues but mine was perfectly dry before it let go.

 

Excellent, Willys, thx. Was hoping you would see this one, wise sage. Doubt there is a fundamental issue in HP fuel pump just yet with only 76k's (lived in garage most of its life) but, based on the above, I will grab the pump from the parts car and apply your magic to it, be ready for battlefield transplant. 

On the scan matter, last time I needed help Stealership said 'call us in about 8 weeks and we will see if we can fit you in'. That led me to this site and my brand new fave hobby, several years ago now. I read on this site full time, listen close to you boys. Standby for results report! Thx again!

[Tut 11]

Well boys the SAM pins are perfect; is this aiming at a cracked solder connection on the SAM board?

 

This car has lived an easy life indoor-stored in a no snow climate, rarely driven even in rain. Girl-driven 78,000 k., full services.

Getting lined up on the STAR with Izzy.... Should a guy wait and see if better clues with STAR diagnostics or run at the SAM board?

 

Is the board failure so common its an odds-on fave? Hate to tear things all apart shootin' blind.... thanks in advance boys.

[Willys 748]

9 minutes ago, Tut said:

Well boys the SAM pins are perfect; is this aiming at a cracked solder connection on the SAM board?

 

This car has lived an easy life indoor-stored in a no snow climate, rarely driven even in rain. Girl-driven 78,000 k., full services.

Getting lined up on the STAR with Izzy.... Should a guy wait and see if better clues with STAR diagnostics or run at the SAM board?

 

Is the board failure so common its an odds-on fave? Hate to tear things all apart shootin' blind.... thanks in advance boys.

Yep....!

 

Open the SAM up and check that line of pins which lead to N11-3  I think it is. Check them well under a head magnifier unit. You may not see the hair line cracks with your eyes if they are getting old and worn out like mine seem to be. The fix is relatively easy, but you'll need to have or get an adjustable temp soldering iron as the old style units aren't hot enough to melt the solder without heating up the board which is bad. Then some desoldering braze wire or solder sucker. Your choice. Then simply resolder pins to board and Bob's your uncle as they say. I think the one you're after is second from the end, sorry which end escapes me..lol.  Once repaired do the relay mod to stop it from happening again, imho. Same goes for head lights again imho.

Good luck and Merry Christmas and a busy New Year.....lol

OH and if you like take pics of the row of pins just for fun so we can see too.

[Tut 11]

OK well here goes, then. Have a pretty sexy solder set up so will just go get a sucker for the R & R.

I shall report dutifully. Over for now.  Standby!

 

And thanks for setting up tomorrow for me! haha

[Tut 11]

 Here is the board, which seems to be looking pretty good. Willys, do you see anything I might be missing? 

[Willys 748]

I need a tighter up pic of the pins that row of 10 and another of 12  mainly are the problem areas. Like I said you need to get up close and personal with each pin to see if they have cold solder joints. Where the pins have heated up to almost melting and semi liquified the solder then cooled back down, resulting in nearly invisible cracks around the pins.  You need to get a pic of just the row to get close enough for us to see anything even if possible.  You can straighten out the board more also without fear.

 

[Tut 11]

Here's another.

I had a really close look with both large and small magnifying apparatus. I saw nothing remarkable. The board appears brand new with no evidence of discoloration or weird physics anywhere.

[Tut 11]

another...

[Tut 11]

Im wondering if there is a common denominator between cold weather, thick diesel and fuel pump strain/load to push syrupy diesel. Are the folks with the board problem from below zero climates driving smarties through winter....

[Willys 748]

3 hours ago, Tut said:

Im wondering if there is a common denominator between cold weather, thick diesel and fuel pump strain/load to push syrupy diesel. Are the folks with the board problem from below zero climates driving smarties through winter....

I don't know, ???
Interesting...

Still too far away to see each separate pin clearly, but they do look good.  You did check conductivity between wire and connectors. right?  I have only heard of one other who had this and it took a long time to find it.

Checked ground under body where the pump grounds to..?    I would still do the relay mod all the same, but that is up to you. Anything to keep the gremlins away is my way of dealing with known issues. Before they strike hopefully that is.